Russia and the coalition of nations

[Robroy]

I find this topic of interest lately. I'll post the link and copy the entire article here since it's only one paragraph long.

http://www.rt.com/news/line/

Russia urges consolidation of efforts against ISIS, global terrorist threat

The Russian Foreign Ministry on Wednesday called for consolidation of international and regional partners’ efforts in fight against global terrorist threat. They should be based on international law with the United Nations playing key part, the ministry stressed in a commentary. It described the results of the US-led coalition’s fight against Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) as “very modest.” The coalition, which was created a year ago “bypassing the UN Security Council” has not stopped expansion of terrorists in Syria and Iraq, according to the statement

Of course we still don't know who the King of the North is yet and he plays a key role in the early events of the GT. I haven't done research on this lately, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the KoN who takes the lead in getting both his allies and the KoS and his allies to get behind the Wild Beast who ends up destroying Babylon the Great?

[Tortuga]

Russia urges consolidation of efforts against ISIS, global terrorist threat

 

Interesting. We had a similar discussion about the ISIS recently.

 

http://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/22154-un-isis/?p=317473

[HoneyflakeT]

This is very interesting!

[Tortuga]

The U.S. claims that Putin has a hidden agenda

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/russia-uses-cover-of-isis-fight-to-bolster-syria-interests-project-power_55f76c46e4b09ecde1d987cf

[JSmith]

With the way the UN is currently set up with each security counsel member having veto power over anything it has really made the UN toothless. China and Russia always vote against anything that would give prominence to the US and European nations and vise versa.

I have always wondered how things would have to change for the UN to get the power to do something as drastic as turn on religion.

Since the Gog of Magog understanding change and it possibly being tied into the King of the North, I have wondered if Jehovah putting his thought into their heart is going to include the US willingly taking a step back from its self proclaimed position as policeman of the world (many Americans are war weary and tired of interfering in other nations problems that dont concern them and its creeping into the political debates)and allowing these other nations like China and Russia to take point on some of these "coalition" type wars. This might get them all to be more willing to join forces and strengthen the UN.

Edited September 16, 2015 by JSmith

[vern]

I don't think we've had a watchtower on the KoS and KoN recently. from what i remember in my meditations there's only one daniel prophecy left regarding this N/S drama. 

Daniel 11:44  “But reports out of the east* and out of the north will disturb him, and he will go out in a great rage to annihilate and to devote many to destruction. 45  And he will plant his royal* tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration;*+and he will come all the way to his end, and there will be no helper for him.


I tried to do some research on the website but its little limited.  guess its better to use the CDrom program.

[Dustparticle]

 No matter what, they are all bunch of idiots.Here Russia goes to Syria to fight? Fight what? Over half of the country is displaced or dead, yet alone they can't beat Ukraine. Gee, now they arrive to fight an empty land. Then we have USA who trying to police the whole world that is full of wars  Gee, where can we find a good political commentator when you need one? Oh! Here I am.! The Chief have spoken 

[Stormswift]

With the way the UN is currently set up with each security counsel member having veto power over anything it has really made the UN toothless. China and Russia always vote against anything that would give prominence to the US and European nations and vise versa.

I have always wondered how things would have to change for the UN to get the power to do something as drastic as turn on religion.

Since the Gog of Magog understanding change and it possibly being tied into the King of the North, I have wondered if Jehovah putting his thought into their heart is going to include the US willingly taking a step back from its self proclaimed position as policeman of the world (many Americans are war weary and tired of interfering in other nations problems that dont concern them and its creeping into the political debates)and allowing these other nations like China and Russia to take point on some of these "coalition" type wars. This might get them all to be more willing to join forces and strengthen the UN.

 

 

Thinking on this .. we have to remember the anglo/american world power will still be the power when the GT comes ... so if America were to join the coalition with Russia would this not at least in some diminish her appearance as a world power?

[Dustparticle]

Thinking on this .. we have to remember the anglo/american world power will still be the power when the GT comes ... so if America were to join the coalition with Russia would this not at least in some diminish her appearance as a world power?

It Russia and America joined together, this will not diminish either power. Joining together would view them as being "strange bedfellows". 

[Stormswift]

But it would make Russia look like the ruling world power - that's not going to happen. 

[Robroy]

Thinking on this .. we have to remember the anglo/american world power will still be the power when the GT comes ... so if America were to join the coalition with Russia would this not at least in some diminish her appearance as a world power?

 

Hey Mandi - good question.

 

If you read Daniel 11:40-45 you may get your answer as to just how menacing the KoN is towards the KoS.  Although the dual world power of US and Britain will still be the power at the time of the GT, we don't know the state of their well being at that time.  It begins with, "In the time of the end" rather than "In the last days" to show that it is a menacing figure in the face of the KoS right to the end.

 

But somewhere I read that it is the KoN who is more instrumental in getting the worlds kings behind the UN and support her agenda which leads to the destruction of Babylon the Great.  This wouldn't really be the KoN taking over the KoS, but more of a cooperation of nations that include all the earths kings.

 

I could be wrong and I need to re-read these portions of Scripture and do some research again.  I've just been a little lazy lately and hoping someone will answer my question rather than me going back to the books.  ;)

[Tortuga]

Thinking on this .. we have to remember the anglo/american world power will still be the power when the GT comes ... so if America were to join the coalition with Russia would this not at least in some diminish her appearance as a world power?

 

If they are joining forces through the UN wouldn't that be part of Rev 17:17?

 

Wouldn't it be funny if Russia and the USA came to some sort of agreement that would promise peace and security?

[Stormswift]

Yes brother Richard but joining in the UN is apart from the coalition of nations that make up Gog of Magog yes?

[Stormswift]

Hey Mandi - good question.

 

If you read Daniel 11:40-45 you may get your answer as to just how menacing the KoN is towards the KoS.  Although the dual world power of US and Britain will still be the power at the time of the GT, we don't know the state of their well being at that time.  It begins with, "In the time of the end" rather than "In the last days" to show that it is a menacing figure in the face of the KoS right to the end.

 

But somewhere I read that it is the KoN who is more instrumental in getting the worlds kings behind the UN and support her agenda which leads to the destruction of Babylon the Great.  This wouldn't really be the KoN taking over the KoS, but more of a cooperation of nations that include all the earths kings.

 

I could be wrong and I need to re-read these portions of Scripture and do some research again.  I've just been a little lazy lately and hoping someone will answer my question rather than me going back to the books.  ;)

No I think you are on the right track here ... but my point is ... that when we see WHO the KON is - it could well be too late.  I can see Russia leading the coalition of Nations but not until after the outbreak of the GT.

[Shawnster]

Thinking on this .. we have to remember the anglo/american world power will still be the power when the GT comes ... so if America were to join the coalition with Russia would this not at least in some diminish her appearance as a world power?

 

Or it'd be a step toward "Peace and Security."

 

 

If they are joining forces through the UN wouldn't that be part of Rev 17:17?

 

Wouldn't it be funny if Russia and the USA came to some sort of agreement that would promise peace and security?

 

 

My thought exactly.  

 

All the nations will agree and band together to destroy Babylon the Great.  So that will be one coalition where the US and Russia united.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Shawnster

[Stormswift]

Okie dokie but that's different to rising as Gog of Magog though isn't it? That's only a coalition giving the UN 'teeth'.  I get it now.

[Robroy]

Yes brother Richard but joining in the UN is apart from the coalition of nations that make up Gog of Magog yes?

 

 

No I think you are on the right track here ... but my point is ... that when we see WHO the KON is - it could well be too late.  I can see Russia leading the coalition of Nations but not until after the outbreak of the GT.

Hmmm, really going to have to get back to the books.

 

So when is the wild beast destroyed?  My understanding is when Jesus comes at Armageddon.

So......After the cry of Peace and Security, all the nations agree (or have already agreed) to give the UN the 'teeth' it needs to ultimately carry out Jehovah's thought, although they think it will be their thought.  The UN Peacekeeping forces as well as NATO (now part of UN, correct?) currently have no 'teeth' because of the fear of what could happen if they are given 'teeth'.  That is, go into an area already aggravated by war and/or terrorism, do what they need to do to keep the peace, knowing that it will probably aggravate an already aggravated situation and then have the 'teeth' to completely deal with that new situation and  bring it all to the end result that they want to achieve.  All this without being accused of being a militant army.

 

This starts the GT and the first act is destroy false religion.  But Revelation says that the merchants and the kings of the earth stand at a distance and mourn her demise, almost as if they regret what happened.  Or perhaps the UN was given the teeth to carry out a mission that involved Babylon the Great, but it was not meant to go as far as destroying her, maybe putting her in her place.  But events happen so quickly (remember how quick the wall separating East/West Germany fell, literally overnight?) that once the domino fell, the nations didn't realize that it was the head domino that was knocked over that would quickly destroy all of Babylon the Great (Jehovah's thought to carry out his agenda).

 

So I wonder if the coalition that the Bible calls Gog of Magog is formed after that event, before that event and it is used afterwards to come after Jehovah's people or if that coalition is formed with the approval of the UN (what Putin currently wants) or outside of the UN (what the US currently has).  Once the Kings see Babylon destroyed and say, 'too bad, too bad' do they vote to take away the teeth that was given to the UN or continue to let her have teeth and get behind Gog to perform the final act which brings complete destruction of all at Armageddon.

 

See how my brain operates?  Confusing even to me.  Guess I'm asking questions with which we'll simply have to wait and see how it all comes to fruition. 

[Tortuga]

I'm giving this topic 4 popcorns for now...

     

[vern]

Rev. 17 "9 “Here is where the intelligence that has wisdom comes in:+ The seven heads+mean* seven mountains,+ where the woman sits on top. 10 And there are* seven kings: five have fallen,+ one is,+ the other has not yet arrived,+ but when he does arrive he must remain a short while.+ 11 And the wild beast that was but is not,+ it is also itself an eighth [king], but springs from the seven,* and it goes off into destruction."


Mountains = rulerships or governments
kings = the heads of state who or whatever they are
wild beast = a type of authority that doesn't have a loving disposition like Jehovahs personality; satanic and his wrong attitudes
horns = kings that have power or support


 

• Revelation 17:12

• • 12 “And the ten horns that you saw mean ten kings,+ who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings one hour with the wild beast.
    
    has that hour happened yet?  the hour that babylon is gonna be judged hasn't yet.
    
    
     

    Rev 13: " 15 And there was granted it to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who would not in any way worship the image of the wild beast."
    
    
    
    Revelation book chapter 35 paragraph 30   "30 The outworking of history identifies this image as the organization proposed, promoted, and supported by Britain and the United States and known initially as the League of Nations. Later, in Revelation chapter 17, it will appear under a different symbol, that of a living, breathing scarlet-colored wild beast having an independent existence. This international body ‘speaks,’ in that it makes boastful claims to be the only one able to bring peace and security to mankind. But in reality it has become a forum for member nations to exchange verbal tirades and insults. It has threatened with ostracism, or a living death, any nation or people that does not bow to its authority. The League of Nations actually expelled nations that failed to abide by its ideologies. At the onset of the great tribulation, militaristic “horns” of this image of the wild beast will fulfill a devastating role.—Revelation 7:14; 17:8, 16.
    "
    
    The UN really don't seem to have the teeth yet to do the things its prophesied to do so some change should occur some how to give them more powers.
    
    
    The article explained that the UN can do embargoes economicly to cause deaths and nation deaths economicly  but i wonder if there will be a different aplication to it in the future.  shrug....
    
    I notice the brothers shaking Jehovah's word to try and get more adjustments regarding the great tribulation which tells me they are gradually getting blessed with more insight.  The better this is all understood the closer we get.

     

     

 

[Dustparticle]

I'm giving this topic 4 popcorns for now...

     

How about with beer??      

Edited September 17, 2015 by Dustparticle

[vern]

What will be interesting is to see if all this interweb stuff about secret societies that actually know they are worshipping the devil play a larger role and the world becomes more outright Lucifarian. 

[Stormswift]

Hmmm, really going to have to get back to the books.

 

So when is the wild beast destroyed?  My understanding is when Jesus comes at Armageddon.

So......After the cry of Peace and Security, all the nations agree (or have already agreed) to give the UN the 'teeth' it needs to ultimately carry out Jehovah's thought, although they think it will be their thought.  The UN Peacekeeping forces as well as NATO (now part of UN, correct?) currently have no 'teeth' because of the fear of what could happen if they are given 'teeth'.  That is, go into an area already aggravated by war and/or terrorism, do what they need to do to keep the peace, knowing that it will probably aggravate an already aggravated situation and then have the 'teeth' to completely deal with that new situation and  bring it all to the end result that they want to achieve.  All this without being accused of being a militant army.

 

This starts the GT and the first act is destroy false religion.  But Revelation says that the merchants and the kings of the earth stand at a distance and mourn her demise, almost as if they regret what happened.  Or perhaps the UN was given the teeth to carry out a mission that involved Babylon the Great, but it was not meant to go as far as destroying her, maybe putting her in her place.  But events happen so quickly (remember how quick the wall separating East/West Germany fell, literally overnight?) that once the domino fell, the nations didn't realize that it was the head domino that was knocked over that would quickly destroy all of Babylon the Great (Jehovah's thought to carry out his agenda).

 

So I wonder if the coalition that the Bible calls Gog of Magog is formed after that event, before that event and it is used afterwards to come after Jehovah's people or if that coalition is formed with the approval of the UN (what Putin currently wants) or outside of the UN (what the US currently has).  Once the Kings see Babylon destroyed and say, 'too bad, too bad' do they vote to take away the teeth that was given to the UN or continue to let her have teeth and get behind Gog to perform the final act which brings complete destruction of all at Armageddon.

 

See how my brain operates?  Confusing even to me.  Guess I'm asking questions with which we'll simply have to wait and see how it all comes to fruition. 

 

Nope you aren't confused that is exactly how I see it ... sometimes when people talk about a coalition of nations going together with UN - it sounds like its being confused with the coalition of nations led by Gog of Magog - although they may in fact be the same nations (won't know until it happens) but Gog of Magog doesn't rise up until the second part of the GT but you are right - even though not rising up until then, it could be apparent before hand who it is going to be.

 

The beast has to be around for a bit - to eat up the fleshy parts of BTG. I reckon they will get the food stuck in their teeth and lose their 'teeth' giving way for Gog of Magog to rise. heh. 

[Stormswift]

Rev. 17 "9 “Here is where the intelligence that has wisdom comes in:+ The seven heads+mean* seven mountains,+ where the woman sits on top. 10 And there are* seven kings: five have fallen,+ one is,+ the other has not yet arrived,+ but when he does arrive he must remain a short while.+ 11 And the wild beast that was but is not,+ it is also itself an eighth [king], but springs from the seven,* and it goes off into destruction."

Mountains = rulerships or governments

kings = the heads of state who or whatever they are

wild beast = a type of authority that doesn't have a loving disposition like Jehovahs personality; satanic and his wrong attitudes

horns = kings that have power or support

 

• Revelation 17:12

• • 12 “And the ten horns that you saw mean ten kings,+ who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings one hour with the wild beast.

    has that hour happened yet?  the hour that babylon is gonna be judged hasn't yet.

     

    Rev 13: " 15 And there was granted it to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who would not in any way worship the image of the wild beast."

    Revelation book chapter 35 paragraph 30   "30 The outworking of history identifies this image as the organization proposed, promoted, and supported by Britain and the United States and known initially as the League of Nations. Later, in Revelation chapter 17, it will appear under a different symbol, that of a living, breathing scarlet-colored wild beast having an independent existence. This international body ‘speaks,’ in that it makes boastful claims to be the only one able to bring peace and security to mankind. But in reality it has become a forum for member nations to exchange verbal tirades and insults. It has threatened with ostracism, or a living death, any nation or people that does not bow to its authority. The League of Nations actually expelled nations that failed to abide by its ideologies. At the onset of the great tribulation, militaristic “horns” of this image of the wild beast will fulfill a devastating role.—Revelation 7:14; 17:8, 16.

    "

    The UN really don't seem to have the teeth yet to do the things its prophesied to do so some change should occur some how to give them more powers.

    The article explained that the UN can do embargoes economicly to cause deaths and nation deaths economicly  but i wonder if there will be a different aplication to it in the future.  shrug....

    I notice the brothers shaking Jehovah's word to try and get more adjustments regarding the great tribulation which tells me they are gradually getting blessed with more insight.  The better this is all understood the closer we get.

     

     

 

May I respectfully say brother, that the brothers aren't shaking Jehovah's word - Jehovah is revealing more light to us. 

[vern]

  The brothers are taking the time to read.....read....read...read....read.....

I appreciate that they are not sticking with the status quo but really taking the effort to get into Jehovah's word.

If you don't want to call it shaking then what would you like to call it?  and i'm not sure why you would object to shaking?   its not a baby.  8}

[Stormswift]

What will be interesting is to see if all this interweb stuff about secret societies that actually know they are worshipping the devil play a larger role and the world becomes more outright Lucifarian. 

 

Of course it's backed by Satan - the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one ... the thing is though ... it's not Satan who maneuvers things it is Jehovah. As we have been encouraged at the last Convention - to not be distracted by the storms around us - focus intently on Jesus as the imitator of Jehovah - don't you agree dear brother?