The Severity if the Ban in Russia is Permitted

[Beggar for the Spirit]

What will happen if the Russian Supreme Court permits this ban & liquidation?

Here are some important facts about what many of the officials and the Ministry of Justice in Russia are seeking with this ban & liquidation. This information can help us grasp the severity of what could happen to our fellow brothers and sisters in Russia.

 

> The Ministry of Justice is seeking the most extreme of penalties

> To make the worship of Jehovah God illegal in the entire land of Russia!

> To confiscate all of the buildings and property of each and every Kingdom Hall in Russia, as well as the

     Headquarters in St.Petersburg

> There are some 400 registered LRO's(Local Religious Organizations) and over 2300 congregations

     throughout Russia that would be outlawed!

> But they are not satisfied with just liquidating the Branch and the Kingdom halls, they also want to

    confiscate "other property of" individual brothers/sisters!

> Also, all 175,000 brothers/sisters would be subject to criminal prosecution. 

    This would not be for 1 year in prison, not for 5 years, but for 10 years!

> Families could be separated for many, many years and possibly 1000s of children would grow up

    without 1 or both parents!  And for some children, if both parents are imprisoned, then

    these children may not be taught about our Father Jehovah.

> The Ministry of Justice wants this ban & liquidation started "immediately"! 

 

Concerning the 175,000 individual brothers and sisters in Russia, Brother Vasiliy Kalin, a representative of the Administrative Center of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia, stated this:

"it is possible that the most troubling period of their lives is starting!"

Edited April 6, 2017 by Beggar for the Spirit

[Pavlos]

Propably all these things could be happened. But is it a good idea to focus to them? It reminds me king Padi in Ezekiah's drama, who said to Ezekiah that "the Assyrians are coming and they will do this and that to you". I mean that if we start talking about the severity and the effects of the ban in Russia, maybe the Russian brothers and sisters who read us will discouraged. 

[Stormswift]

28 minutes ago, ouzo said:

Propably all these things could be happened. But is it a good idea to focus to them? It reminds me king Padi in Ezekiah's drama, who said to Ezekiah that "the Assyrians are coming and they will do this and that to you". I mean that if we start talking about the severity and the effects of the ban in Russia, maybe the Russian brothers and sisters who read us will discouraged. 

Brother Neil is really only reiterating what was put up on jw.org ... yes it is good to know how severe things could get ... it underscores the severity of this situation, which is easy for us in the Western world to forget what our brothers and sisters are going to be faced with. 

 

It is only a balancing presentation of facts ... not our mandate of focus.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Stormswift

[Beggar for the Spirit]

Hi Brother Pavlos,

 

I can understand your concerns. However, those facts listed in my post and even more facts are being published in various articles and interviews on JW.org and also on JW-Russia.org. The Governing Body even asked  Brother Vasiliy Kalin, a representative of the Administrative Center of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia, to make a public appeal in a video that all in Russia would see that would explain the devastating impact that this ban would have on Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

And so I just put together a brief summary of some of these articles, interviews, videos that were made in order to help encourage all of us, including myself, to really grasp the full gravity of what could happen and hoping that this can help as a further motivation for each of us to remember to offer prayers everyday, hopefully multiple times a day, in behalf of our brothers and sisters in Russia, our lawyers, the Legal Department and also prayers in behalf of the officials involved.  I was not speculating about the possibilities of torture or the horrible conditions in the prisons. It was not meant to discourage but only to help motivate us. I apologize if I have discouraged anyone. 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Beggar for the Spirit

[Beggar for the Spirit]

Another reason I started this topic is because some brothers and sisters were unaware of certain important facts, such as that individual brothers/sisters in Russia could be criminally prosecuted and imprisoned for 10 years. Also others were not aware that Russia also wants to confiscate "other property of" individual brothers/sisters! 

 

Many of our brothers and sisters here on JWtalk appreciate being updated on this situation on Russia. So I hope that these facts are helpful and motivating for all of us, but I definitely hope that I am not offending anyone, if so I am very sorry. 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Beggar for the Spirit

[A fellow servant]

1 hour ago, Beggar for the Spirit said:

What will happen if the Russian Supreme Court permits this ban & liquidation?

Here are some important facts about what many of the officials and the Ministry of Justice in Russia are seeking with this ban & liquidation. This information can help us grasp the severity of what could happen to our fellow brothers and sisters in Russia.

 

> The Ministry of Justice is seeking the most extreme of penalties

> To make the worship of Jehovah God illegal in the entire land of Russia!

> To confiscate all of the buildings and property of each and every Kingdom Hall in Russia, as well as the

     Headquarters in St.Petersburg

> There are some 400 registered LRO's(Local Religious Organizations) and over 2300 congregations

     throughout Russia that would be outlawed!

> But they are not satisfied with just liquidating the Branch and the Kingdom halls, they also want to

    confiscate "other property of" individual brothers/sisters!

> Also, all 175,000 brothers/sisters would be subject to criminal prosecution. 

    This would not be for 1 year in prison, not for 5 years, but for 10 years!

> Families could be separated for many, many years and possibly 1000s of children would grow up

    without 1 or both parents!  And for some children, if both parents are imprisoned, then

    these children may not be taught about our Father Jehovah.

> The Ministry of Justice wants this ban & liquidation started "immediately"! 

 

Concerning the 175,000 individual brothers and sisters in Russia, Brother Vasiliy Kalin, a representative of the Administrative Center of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia, stated this:

"it is possible that the most troubling period of their lives is starting!"

 

Very sobering and troubling!!!!   May Jehovah strengthen them.  May they be determined , courageous and faithful in these difficult times.  Keep praying fervently for these dear ones !   It keeps going through my mind ......if I were in that situation how would I respond.   Hopefully as faithful as these brothers and sisters are and just as those ones during the Nazi Regime.

[EverlastingLifeInView]

If this ban is enacted I can't help but think the great tribulation is not too far off now. 

[hatcheckgirl]

The seriousness of the ban and its consequences was highlighted by the biggest ever letter writing campaign to the Russian government officials. It would not have been requested of us to do this if it wasn't so important and in acknowledgement of how serious this is for our brothers and sisters in Russia.  We know it's a big deal, but can we actually grasp what it will mean for them?

 

We hope and pray for them that they keep on enduring. They've made it this far with Jehovah's full backing - they will not be let down now in their time of need, whatever the verdict.

[jwhess]

It is good to remember that the Great Tribulation is not controlled by actions of nations or rulers (or even Satan).  Jehovah has picked the exact day long before there even was a Russia.  Remember the  Brother Vasiliy Kalin  said in the video that this all happened before in April 1951.  The brothers lost their homes, possessions and freedom.  They were sent to Siberia, not just for 10 years, but for life.  That penalty did not bring the GT then.  Nor did the previous Nazi persecution or Malawi or any of the other trials.  God has a time appointed and He will not deviate from His purpose.

 

WE pray for a good outcome and we pray for our brothers strength, faith and loyalty regardless of the outcome.  But do not be quickly discouraged if the GT is not here by next week or this year.

[The Deej]

Just think that if all of our brothers and sisters are thrown into prison over there that is a bad situation for sure, but that in of itself is a grand witness because the world will be talking about it until the system ends or the Russian Government is forced to release them for whatever reason is thrust upon them.  I wish I could go over there and be counted worth of this honor.  

[Sheep]

I think the court mentioned, in yesterday's hearing, that this ban is not against Jehovah's Witnesses individually, but only against the religion. But that sounded like sugar-coating the situation to me. They don't seem to realize that each one of us individually are part of the religion they are seeking to ban. The religion, and the individuals in it, are one and the same. If it's only against the religion as a whole, then why are they threatening to take away properties of individual brothers and sisters, threaten the job security of each individual, and throwing them individually into prison?

 

It was nice to see that in today's hearing that the brothers mentioned the documents of foreign organizations, "such as the UN, OSCE, official statements of  human rights organizations, as well as archival documents." (14:37 mark) Those organizations, including Forum 18, are exposing their shenanigans to the world. The world is taking note, and will act accordingly against the bias in Russia. Whether it is through them, or from Jehovah himself that their deliverance is to come, remains to be seen at the moment. Whatever the outcome, Jehovah has a reason allowing it to happen to this extent. We may not be clear on why He is permitting it, but it will become manifest in due time. Take courage, my Russian brothers and sisters!

[hatcheckgirl]

2 hours ago, jwhess said:

They were sent to Siberia, not just for 10 years, but for life.  That penalty did not bring the GT then.  Nor did the previous Nazi persecution or Malawi or any of the other trials.  God has a time appointed and He will not deviate from His purpose.

Very true brother John.  Whatever is happening now, our brothers will stay faithful by relying on Jehovah to get them through this, just as they survived the past black times only in Jehovah's strength.

 

It is a reminder to all of us watching, who don't have such full-frontal persecution that one day will be the last in this system, but we are serving Jehovah for eternity.  The coming GT will affect all of us, but our focus is on the hope soon to come.  So we can't just be on the fringes, not now.  It's close, and this may be the precursor to the tumultuous times ahead, or another big bump - we all need to hang in there together.

[campanula]

There is one more outcome for us if that ban happen, we all will be included to the federal list of extremists,  i mean each one of us. 

That means we all will be fired from our jobs immediately and no one will dare to hire anyone of us.

This also means that If someone of us would think to flee we will not be allowed to cross any border.

And that also means that  no one bank will open an account for anyone of us as well..

[Beggar for the Spirit]

Wow thank you Sister Svetlana, those were very important points!

I didn't know that you were in Russia?

How are you and your family doing? 

[tekmantwo]

12 minutes ago, campanula said:

There is one more outcome for us if that ban happen, we all will be included to the federal list of extremists,  i mean each one of us. 

That means we all will be fired from our jobs immediately and no one will dare to hire anyone of us.

This also means that If someone of us would think to flee we will not be allowed to cross any border.

And that also means that  no one bank will open an account for anyone of us as well..

That is very tragic, a horrible thing that may befall people that we love.

We fervently pray for a tolerable outcome for you dear ones, for you to have the strength and endurance,  by means of our God Jehovah , and for His name to be glorified amongst the nations.

 

'Soon, they will know. ..'

[A fellow servant]

Just know Svetlana,   like the brothers and sisters have so lovingly commented...Our daily, hourly prayers are going up in behalf of ALL you dear ones.   As Jesus stated in John 16:33   "Take COURAGE....."

[hatcheckgirl]

Svetlana, all of us pray and are discussing your plight in faith that no matter how this ends up, Jehovah will guard you and supply what you need.  We don't know how he does it, but he always comes through, doesn't he? Do all you can to strengthen your faith, just as we all have to in readiness of whatever the near future will bring to all of us worshipping Jehovah.  Soon this will be over, my dear sister.  So many hugs, prayers and much love!

[Thesauron]

Isn't it quite possible that this site also will eventually be considered extremist and banned from access from inside Russia?


____
"Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."—Matthew 6:21.

[Alexa]

33 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

Isn't it quite possible that this site also will eventually be considered extremist and banned from access from inside Russia?


____
"Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."—Matthew 6:21.

Possibly and it will serve as religious activity of Jehovah's Witnesses which they may ban or not brother Johan  

[Victoria]

What is the source of the information that they can confiscate the property of individual JWs?

[hatcheckgirl]

8 hours ago, Thesauron said:

Isn't it quite possible that this site also will eventually be considered extremist and banned from access from inside Russia?

I'm thinking it's a possibility too.  Caution is needed. Time to be serpents?  We are already doves 

[Beggar for the Spirit]

Hi Sister Victoria,

You asked what the source was concerning the Russian Authorities being able to confiscate the property of individual brothers/sisters. The source is  Brother Vasiliy Kalin, a representative of the Administrative Center of Jehovah’s Witnesses, who appealed by video to government authorities to stop the unjust persecution of Jehovah’s Witnesses. His statement was originally posted on jw-russia.org on March 21, 2017. Here is the portion you are asking about, he was speaking about how the Russian Government wants to ban and liquidate, then he states this: 

"...in particular, to confiscate the houses of worship,and other property of believers"

 

Brother Kalin did not specify what this "other property of believers" was, but it is not Kingdom Halls nor the Administrative Center as he had just mentioned these prior. Maybe it is some specific properties that are owned by certain "believers" which is connected with the organization somehow? And since he didn't specifically say the "homes" of believers, then this is why I just wrote "other property of individual brothers/sisters". That is how I interpreted "believers", but if you feel this is not correct or that Brother Kalin is speaking about something else, then please feel free to add your understanding. Anything you can help us in understanding we appreciate it. Thanks for asking your question Victoria and I hope you have a wonderful Memorial. 

Edited April 10, 2017 by Beggar for the Spirit

[Victoria]

7 hours ago, Beggar for the Spirit said:

Hi Sister Victoria,

You asked what the source was concerning the Russian Authorities being able to confiscate the property of individual brothers/sisters. The source is  Brother Vasiliy Kalin, a representative of the Administrative Center of Jehovah’s Witnesses, who appealed by video to government authorities to stop the unjust persecution of Jehovah’s Witnesses. His statement was originally posted on jw-russia.org on March 21, 2017. Here is the portion you are asking about, he was speaking about how the Russian Government wants to ban and liquidate, then he states this: 

"...in particular, to confiscate the houses of worship,and other property of believers"

 

Brother Kalin did not specify what this "other property of believers" was, but it is not Kingdom Halls nor the Administrative Center as he had just mentioned these prior. Maybe it is some specific properties that are owned by certain "believers" which is connected with the organization somehow? And since he didn't specifically say the "homes" of believers, then this is why I just wrote "other property of individual brothers/sisters". That is how I interpreted "believers", but if you feel this is not correct or that Brother Kalin is speaking about something else, then please feel free to add your understanding. Anything you can help us in understanding we appreciate it. Thanks for asking your question Victoria and I hope you have a wonderful Memorial. 

 

Thank you very much!

I cannot be 100% sure but I think brother Kalin spoke about the organization's property, maybe ground, some equipment and so on. Vasiliy said " confiscate the houses of worship and other property of believers". Houses of worship are not our own property , but the organisation's. So I think other property is also not private. I believe brothers would tell us smth if we were expecting to lose our homes.

[bagwell1987]

 

I thought this might be helpful to get a perspective. I need visuals to help me comprehend how many miles of mass we're talking about that will be affected in comparison to USA. Wow, Russia is HUGE!

 

Then here it is compared to Australia- http://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/australia/russia

Compared to Canada- http://mapfight.appspot.com/ru-vs-ca/russia-canada-size-comparison

 

It is humongus, affecting so many people.

 

[Beggar for the Spirit]

Victoria, 1 possibility Brother Kalin could have been referring to when he said, "confiscate...other property of believers"  is property that is owned by individual brothers/sisters but is used by the organization. 1 example I was thinking of are RTOs(Remote Translation Offices).  Maybe in Russia some of the small RTO buildings are owned by individual "believers"? These brothers/sisters who own buildings offer the organization use of their building for an RTO.

 

So maybe when officials found some of these RTOs and thought they had discovered more property of Jehovah's Witnesses, instead they discovered that these buildings were owned by individual citizens. But because Jehovah's Witnesses were using the building for religious purposes, now the officials want to confiscate these RTO buildings even though the buildings are property of "believers"?

I don't know, I was just trying to think of what Brother Kalin could have been referring to, which I hope was not the homes of the brothers/sisters.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Beggar for the Spirit