Leaderboard

Months ago at the initial trial when the Russian Supreme Court decided to ban Jehovah's Witnesses and liquidate all assets and then later refused to reverse this decision on appeal, we were saddened. While we were sad because we were concerned and worried for our dear Russian brothers and sisters, we however knew that when Jehovah didn't intervene in either the initial trial or in the Appeal, that Jehovah must have good and wise reasons! Well possibly we now know 1 of the very wise reasons why Jehovah permitted the ban. We had no idea during the trial and even during the appeal that afterwards there would also be an attack against our Bible! But if Jehovah used his special ability of "selective foreknowledge", then Jehovah could have easily "seen" that the result of the trial and ban on His people would also instigate an attack on the New World Translation! And so Jehovah could "see" that by permitting the ban on His people that the result would be a new and different trial that would end up allowing His people to give strong testimony concerning His name and concerning the entire Bible as well as a variety of His inspired words/thoughts would be heard for the first time by hundreds and thousands of people! Jehovah knew that this attack and trial concerning our New World Translation would give an incredible witness, to not only all of Russia, but to the entire world!

They have to attack Jehovah's name and that will be beginning of their downfall. Jehovah will not leave them unpunished... remembering Pharaoh's Pride and downfall. The foolish one says there is no Jehovah

I guess it's because they're our family. It's not that no one cares about the others but the brothers are related to us in the faith. Losing family is always more painful.

I've been thinking a lot lately about what John wrote in Rev. 11:18 - that god would "bring to ruin those ruining the earth". I would think John had to be puzzled by these words - how could man possibly "ruin" the entire earth?? It wasn't even remotely possible for man to do that in his day - in fact, it wasn't remotely possible until the last hundred or so years! And now man has done it - in a little over 100 years, he has truly ruined the earth - every part of it - sky, land and sea/ocean! Species are disappearing everyday, some we know about and others we destroy before they are even discovered! This kind of thing would render me hopeless and wanting to no longer be a part of the human race - so I thank Jehovah he let me find him!!!

Thank you Samira for all your hard work

It's always sad when something like this happens, but we're a family, and we'd like yo make sure that our brothers and sisters are safe first. Other than that, we are painfully aware that these things do happen, and must happen, before Armageddon comes. Johan It's always sad when something like this happens, but we're a family, and we'd like yo make sure that our brothers and sisters are safe first. Other than that, we are painfully aware that these things do happen, and must happen, before Armageddon comes. Johan

It's good that scriptures are being used even if the court chooses to ignore them.

If my brother gets killed it is a very personal matter. That is what gives.

What would we do without Jehovah... There is no way I can handle any of this news these horrible things that go on all over the world if it wasn't for the hope of a wonderful future and for the resurrection of those in his memory.. Luke 21:26 .. People will become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth, ...... Luke 21:28 ... But as these things start to occur, stand up straight and lift up your heads, because your deliverance is getting near.” Only with Jehovah's help and holy spirit we will get through this. I've been baptized for over 43 years and never dreamt in my wildest dreams the Earth and the inhabitants on it could get this bad couldn't imagine 2Timothy 3 5-6 would be fulfilled in such a dramatic, dramatic way. praise Jehovah for all the Bible truths he has allowed us to understand in order to give us peace in Satan's wicked system of things as it near it's end Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk

Pray for their families to search for comfort from Jehovah. Dear friends pray that we all will keep on putting forth every effort to work shoulder to shoulder with Jehovah to share the good news with everyone. Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk

Sister Samira thank you once again it is very much appreciated to keep us up to date as the case progressed. Enjoy the convention tomorrow its a great program! are you at the Excell in London? Agape

Should we have expected any other outcome in this unjust and corrupt world.....all the arguments that were used in the case were clear and logically presented even for a layman with no knowledge at all why even children would have come to the opposite conclusion to that of the judges. All I can say is thankfully this system has run its course and is on its last few gasps, soon they will see clearly their error in who's side they chose.

Love that question - how can they accuse JW of extremism if their experts don't even know what it really is... hmm...

Penguins - I never knew this! Did you ever wonder why there are no dead penguins on the ice in Antarctica? Where do they go? Wonder no more!!!!!!! It is a known fact that the penguin is a very ritualistic bird which lives an extremely ordered and complex life. The penguin is very committed to its family and will mate for life, as well as maintain a form of compassionate contact with its offspring throughout its life. If a penguin is found dead on the ice surface, other members of the family and social circle have been known to dig holes in the ice, using their vestigial wings and beaks, until the hole is deep enough for the dead bird to be rolled into, and buried. The male penguins then gather in a circle around the fresh grave and sing: "Freeze a jolly good fellow." "Freeze a jolly good fellow." You really didn't believe that I know anything about penguins, did you? It's so easy to fool OLD people. I am sorry, an urge came over me that made me do it!!! Oh, quit whining, I fell for it, too.

Hi Brother Ruben, You asked, "Why is it always more important when this kind of thing happens that no brothers were hurt? Maybe initially it may seem that all we care about is our brothers and sisters, but if you wouldn't mind closely looking again at some of the posts, you may see something different than what you initially thought. Here are a few quotes from some of the posts above: Sister Natasha - " It's sad anyone had to die or get hurt" Sister Shey - " Pray for their families to search for comfort from Jehovah " Brother Tracy - He started this topic because of the concern for what happened to the people in Barcelona. Ruben, if you went on vacation and found out that several bombs exploded back in your hometown of Munich, while you would be sad about what happened to those who were injured or died, wouldn't you have a special concern for your friends and family? Wouldn't you desperately be calling to find out if any of your friends or family were hurt? Yes, because those people are special to you. It is not that some people 's life is worth more than others, but each of us, including you and me, have an emotional attachment to those who belong to us, our family and our spiritual family and friends. So please be assured that we care about all human life and that we feel very bad about what happened to these people in Barcelona. But we are glad that no more people were hurt or killed, including those that "belong to us".

After a 30-minute so-called "deliberation" the judge returned with the decision to ban God's Holy Word in Russia?...What a surprise! Well, at least the judge gets to keep his job. No matter, this is going precisely the way Jehovah is allowing this to go! Though his enemies have tried, they will not silence His glorious name! Your word endures forever. And your sayings are oh so deep The good news you declare is a breath of fresh air And your sayings I just want to keep -- all of my days. - - - - - The green grass dries up, the blossom withers, but the word of our God endures forever.”--Isaiah 40:8

It's sad anyone had to die or get hurt, but I pray that if any JWs were nearby with a cart or anything that they're safe.

déjà vu

18:55 The court session is resumed. Speech in the debate begins prosecutor Zhukov. 19:05 Prosecutor Zhukov explains that extremism refers to acts involving violence or incitement to it. When the publications of Jehovah's Witnesses were detained at the border, the examination showed that they could contain extremism. Considering the special social danger of such an act as extremism, the prosecutor's office appealed to the court with a claim to recognize these materials as extremist. Prosecutor Zhukov especially notes that this is not a trial of religious beliefs. The lawsuit does not state that anyone's religious views are bad or wrong. Recognizing the right of everyone to freedom of religion, the law of Russia prohibits the propaganda of the inferiority of citizens on the principle of attitude to religion. 19:10 Zhukov emphasizes that the experts (Kryukova, Kotelnikov, Tarasov) gave the submitted materials an assessment of a general nature. We studied various text techniques. For example, they paid attention to deducing the "image of the enemy". In addition, experts have identified calls for a refusal to serve in the army. As for the experts in the field of linguistics and religious studies interrogated in the process, they were given only a short time to get acquainted with the case materials, unlike the experts, whose conclusion is the basis of the claim. 19:17 Prosecutor Anna Smalkova briefly says that she supports the lawsuit. Speech in the debate begins representative Dyubin. He reminds that according to Russian legislation the Bible can not be recognized as extremist. Turning to the text of the Bible, Dyubin draws attention to the fact that the Bible bears the message of good. One by one, Dyubin opens the texts of the Bible, which teach diametrically opposite to what is considered extremism. For example, Proverbs 21: 3, which says that the observance of justice is more pleasing to God than the sacrifice offered. That is, the Bible teaches law-abiding, but not extremism. Isaiah 2: 4: The Bible teaches peace, calling for the swords to be turned into tools for cultivating the earth. John 13:34: The Bible teaches us to love our neighbor, but not to hate, that is, the teaching of the Bible is incompatible with extremism. Romans 13: 1: The Bible teaches obedience to secular authorities, and not to breaking the law. 2 Timothy 3:16: The Bible is an inspired book that represents God's conversion to humanity. And the prosecutor wants to prohibit this book in Russia! 19:30 Dyubin reminds the prosecutor that the law of Russia provides an alternative to military service for people whose faith does not allow them to take up arms. And Jehovah's Witnesses carry this civil service, and this service is almost twice as long as the military one, and in addition, not in warm rooms, but in medical institutions. What kind of extremism can there be if the conscience does not allow believers to take up arms and they are even ready to endure adversity for the sake of their convictions. 19:40 The speech in the debate begins with the lawyer Bogdanov. His first words: "The Word of God is not enclosed in chains." Bogdanov says that these words entered in the Bible from 2 Timothy 2: 9 are written in the time of persecutions unfolding in the I century against Christians. Bogdanov calls the main historical milestones associated with persecution of the Bible and those who read and disseminated it. The last historic milestone was in 2015, when the Leningrad-Finland transport prosecutor came out with a lawsuit to ban one of the Bible editions in Russia. "Only now the Bible can be included not in the medieval Index of forbidden books," says Bogdanov, "but in the Federal list of extremist materials!" 19:45 Analyzing the expertise of Kryukova, Bogdanov points out that the expert extends the effect of federal legislation on the relationship between God and people, while laws should regulate the relationship between people and people. 19:50 Bogdanov recalls that in court hearings, how many asked representatives of the prosecutor's office to clearly say what exactly they see as extremism in the text, and have not received an answer. Every time the prosecutor was not able to name something concrete. The prosecutor answered that he was not an expert, that he relied on the experts' conclusions. However, the availability of expertise - this is not an excuse in the trial to turn off your own mind. Bogdanov recalls that under the current legislation, no evidence for the court should have a pre-established strength. How can you rely on experts and most do not understand what exactly is extremism?

....they have to feed the kangaroos....

Maybe the two are related. It will get a lot worse before 'they' get their act together and try doing something about it. Of course, it will merely be crying out " 'Peace', when there is no Peace".

Thank you very much for taking the time to post this information. A brother in our congregation was not able to get his device to translate jw-russia so I gave him a link to this thread so he could read the English translation.

I just want to survive till Sunday 12C The chance of light snowfalls about the peaks of the Dandenong Ranges (near where I live) gusty winds ,rain, hail, thunderstorms.. miserable. Movie nights if electricity available LOL

i want to remember this argument... don't think I've ever seen it before.

In watching the news footage, the first thing that came to my mind is that Jehovah's Witnesses go with their carts where ever there are crowds of people - There are cuts of footage that show colorful literature everywhere and a shot that may or may not be one of our carts knocked over. I hope none of our brothers there were killed or injured - if they were indeed there with a Cart.

Everything was already decided in advance fake trial with opponents of Jehovah ....we are back in the middle age .... welcome to the old dark ages of the cruisades.

19:58 Amazing argument Kryukova in favor of the fact that "Translation of the New World" is not supposed to be the Bible, - the difference in the markup of the text from the Synodal translation. The interrogated specialists explained that in the ancient manuscripts of the Bible there was no markup at all. 20:05 Concluding the speech in the debate, Bogdanov said: "The recognition of the extremist Bible can inflict irreparable reputational damage to the Russian Federation as a democratic state." 20:06 Speech in the debate begins the representative Novakov. He draws the court's attention to a number of moral lessons and suggests that the court analyze whether this book calls for extremism. Or she calls for something else. Most of the quoted fragments contain appeals expressed in the form of verbs in the imperative mood. "Do not stop loving your enemies and praying for those who are after you." "Whatever you want people to do with you, so do you with them." "Love your God and love your neighbor as yourself." "Put your sword into the scabbard." "Love each other". Let every soul obey the authorities. " "Do not let any rotten word come out of your mouth." "Let everyone love his wife. Wives should deeply respect their husbands. " "Children, be obedient. Fathers, do not annoy your children. " "Do not forget to do good and share, Behave honestly. " All these texts testify to the fact that the Bible does not call for extremist acts, but on the contrary, for love and good. 20:15 Novakov recalls that the prosecutor's office questioned all the evidence that led their opponents. Representatives of the prosecutor's office doubted even that the Synodal edition of the Bible in the materials of the case is indeed the Bible. Or when Doctor of Historical Sciences Odintsov confirmed the historical fact that Galileo Galileo had a conflict with the Catholic Church, the prosecutor's office questioned his knowledge. Continuing this reasoning, Novakov reads the Bible texts from Job 26: 5 and Isaiah 40:22, where the Bible speaks of the spherical form of the earth and the fact that the planet in space "hangs on nothing." "I will not be surprised," Novakov says, "if the prosecutor's office questioned these facts as well!" 20:29 Analyzing the techniques by which Kryukova and her staff "find" extremism in printed materials, Novakov shows the court the Civil Procedure Code. "If you send Kryukova for examination this book," the representative said, "she will also find out with extremism in her methods. She can state that there are signs of superiority of the Civil Procedure Code over the Administrative or Arbitration Code! " 20:40 Referring to the materials of the case, Novakov says that Kryukov, Tarasov and Kotelnikov, analyzing (in another case) youth songs about vampires, etc., containing terrible bloody texts, comes to the conclusion that there is nothing wrong with them. In the opinion of these experts, the fascination with horrors is a normal phenomenon in certain subcultures. Novakov poses a logical question: "So why do these experts have such different approaches? Why is the teaching of the Bible an extremism, and the songs about vampires are normal? " 20:45 Nowakow passes to the final block of his speech. He focuses on the thesis of the expert Kryukova that the "Translation of the New World" can not be considered a Bible, because it consistently uses the name of Jehovah God in all places where the original text contains the sacred four-fingered. 20:50 With the help of biblical texts, Novakov shows that God has a name. For example, he quotes from Proverbs 30: 4: "Who ascended to heaven and descended? Who collected the wind in his hand? Who tied the water in his clothes? Who has set all the boundaries of the earth? What is his name? And what is the name of his son? Do you know?" 20:55 Novakov brought with him a Bible in Hebrew, the original language. He shows the name of God in Hebrew and says that this name in the "Translation of the New World" is consistently transmitted as Jehovah, while the Synodal translation arbitrarily uses that "Jehovah", then "Lord." 9pm Novakov quotes a fragment from Psalm 109: 3 in the Synodal translation, where, because of the substitution of the name of God, the title "Lord" is formed by the nebula: "The Lord said to my Lord ..." However, "Translating the New World", correctly conveying the name of God, makes it clear: Jehovah turned To Christ. 21:02 Analyzing Kryukova's arguments that the "Translation of the New World" was allegedly altered in such a way that the texts disproved the doctrine of the Trinity (that God and Christ are one and the same person), Novakov reads the text from John 8:18 In the Synodal translation. He draws attention to the fact that this text will be especially clear to lawyers and the court, since it refers to the Israeli law, in which there was a provision that only the testimony of two witnesses could be valid in court. In this connection, Jesus says in this text: "I testify of myself, and the Father who sent me beareth witness of me." If God and Christ were one person, as formulated in the doctrine of the Trinity, then it would be only one witness, which under Israeli law would not be enough. But Christ says just the same, That God and Christ are two witnesses, which means that their testimony has legal force. This text indicates that the doctrine of the Trinity is denied by the Bible in the Synodal translation, and not by the "Translation of the New World." 21:10 The parties exchange replicas. 21:20 The court shall be removed to the deliberation room for adjudicating the merits.

Got about an hour of informal in doc's waiting room. 3 tracts. One lady was my former student and has been called on by two Sisters (who are also sisters) from our Local cong. Went to a couple of meetings at KH some years ago, but did not get the df arrangement. We had a long conversation and she said she really gets it now. As it turns out, her current church is folding and she is looking for a new place to attend.

Liked particularly the out of order sticker. Sent from my Infinix X572 using Tapatalk

I hope they come to a verdict today.....we are at our convention tomorrow...

John 3:20 = " For whoever practices vile things hates the light and does not come to the light, so that his works may not be reproved."

14:55 Expert Ivanenko draws attention to the unacceptable methodical error of Kryukova in the form of a complete blending of the unequal notions of "evaluation" and "presentation of facts." For example, Kryukova calls a "negative evaluation" the phrase from the pamphlet that because of his scientific activity Galileo had a "conflict with the Catholic Church". In fact, this is not an assessment, but a statement of facts that can be scientifically tested for compliance.

This is what the weather like im here:

I know this, but it saves time to just write the other reason, without re-iterating all the main reasons for not getting involved in world social/political campaigns that we all know as well. It's similar scenario to saying we know all the spiritual reasons why we don't take blood, but it does have some health benefits even though that's not our main reason and to just give the health benefit rather than a long spiritual explanation first, which we all know on here and is 'taken as read'. We do get involved with social issues that involve Gods' people that legally defend our right to preach and authorised letter campaigns to help our people's right to preach in other countries. We may get involved with a social issue on a personal level to defend our life/safety right like the Apostle Paul when he appealed to Caesar as a Roman Citizen and called on this citizenship rights to stop a beating. This is very different to a protest march supporting worldly people in a cause that may have hidden divisive agenda and detract from our prime directive and make us look as if we don't believe it. As for FECRIS we watch them for what will happen next/what other country is going to use what FECRIS have to clamp down on any faith that is not in favor. FECRIS are affiliating themselves to all other anti-sect/cult organisations around the World - some of which do good work protecting people from dangerous religious exploitation - sharing their dossiers against many religions mainstream as well as minority, including us. What they define as exploiting and totalitarian is biased due to the agendas/ sources of the complaints and a wider definition than other anti-cult groups. What they accuse us of in France or Russia to cause problems, they share in other countries to try on there. It is no surprise to find their president is actually from the UK branch and has a collection of similar stuff against JW's here claiming what we believe is against various man-made national or international Human Rights Laws, etc -waiting in the wings to use against us at any time they see fit.

A thought for over 50

My son and daughter in law and three grandchildren are there also, at the Excell that is.

Wow, so when are they gonna start banning all of those other Bibles, Tolstoy's works and all of those other books that use His name?

One Korean man kept saying Jesus saves. When I passed him, he asked me: Do you believe in Jesus? I said yes, And added: "Jesus is Jehovah's servant and heavenly king!" He made such a funny face out of surprise that I hardly managed to control myself not to laugh but I smiled. His face was shockingly funny.

Wow... the threatening of the US get it's domino effect on other countries. Iran now pops up again with the message that they will restart their nuclear program again if the US keeps threatening. http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/15/middleeast/rouhani-iran-nuclear-deal/index.html The world is completely out of control. It gets closer to the image that the bible described as the last days. Riots, anargy, people will be afraid and can't rely on their governments. Natural disasters... I have grown up in the truth and already preach about these days for decades... and every year I could say that it got worse than the years before. But what happens now could be seen as those words in Matthew 24. I try to imagine the days of Noah, cause these days would be like that one. In these days people who live by norms and values of the bible, are seen as abnormal. The new standard to accept is the 'LHBTQ' and several other terms which they also going to introduce on schools now. Kids of 5 years old will be teached now that there's something wrong with you if you learn that a man will mary a woman. And that you can be born in a wrong body. Even birth cards got their message now as: 'seen as a boy' instead of 'A boy'. Gay and Lesbians activities are widely accepted now. Riots and anarchy everywhere cause people don't accept their government or their decisions. Terrorist attacks that afraids people. People that think they can judge themselves and kill people. And so on... Now this nuclear program issue that frighten people worldwide... I think there's a lot to come in a very short time. As we think it could not get worse... I think it still can... Cause these days will be as it has never been before....

17:03 The court decided on the spot to deny the summons and interrogation of experts in the court session. 17:08 Representative Novakov unexpectedly declares a petition to leave the case in question without consideration! He explains that the Leningrad-Finland transport prosecutor's office filed a lawsuit claiming that the Bible was extremist, went beyond its powers, because, according to the order of the Prosecutor General's Office of 2009 on the organization of prosecutor's supervision in cases of extremism, such claims can be brought by the prosecutor's office no lower than the level of the prosecutor's offices of the Russian regions Federation. The Leningrad-Finland transport prosecutor's office is equal to the district or city prosecutor's office. 17:15 Prosecutor Zhukov objects, he says that the order of the Prosecutor General's Office lost its force on July 10, 2017. The Leningrad-Finland transport prosecutor's office was obliged to react. The court is removed to the advisory room.

16:25 Representative Dyubin summarizes and lists all the identified shortcomings of the expertise of Kryukova, which were addressed during the court session. He asks for the appointment of a repeated judicial complex religious studies and linguistic expertise. A number of institutions are able and ready to carry out such an examination. For example, the federal budget institution the Federal Center for Forensic Expertise under the Ministry of Justice of Russia (in Moscow). The court specifies how the costs of such an examination can be distributed? Dyubin explains that the organization that he represents (the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses in Finland) is ready to take the re-examination costs.

15:05 Lawyer Bogdanov declares a petition to attach letters to the case materials sent by representatives of interested persons (religious organizations of Jehovah's Witnesses) to the expert organization headed by Kryukova. Both letters were returned to the sender due to the fact that the expert organization is not at the specified address. In this regard, the rights of interested persons were violated for the possible withdrawal of specific experts, as well as for the presence in the examination. The court opens envelopes and satisfies the petition for the attachment of documents along with the envelopes. 15:15 Lawyer Bogdanov asks to attach the Russian Biblical Society's response to his lawyer's request. In the answer of this respected organization it is noted that there is no standard translation of the Bible. All Russian Bibles are translations. Many of the Bibles are translations from translations, including the Church Slavonic Bible, translated from the Greek translation. Translation from a translation is normal. The criterion for assessing the quality of translation of the Bible is only the correspondence of the translation to the source text, taking into account the difficulties associated with structural differences in languages. The prosecutor's office objects to the introduction of this answer. The court decides to attach. 15:20 Lawyer Bogdanov asks to attach to the case materials the court decision and appellate ruling passed in the case of recognizing the Quran in the translation of Kuliev extremist material. The court of first instance recognized this Koran as extremist, however this decision was canceled in appeal. The lawyer draws attention to an approach that, judging by the text of the appellate definition, was used to find out whether the text is a Qur'an. The court conducted a simple comparison of the surahs and verses of the Quran in Kuliev's translation with other translations of the Koran in Russian. Since their semantic identity was established, the court decided that the text translated by Kuliev is the Qur'an, and therefore can not be recognized as extremist material, since the law stipulates that the Bible, the Koran, Tanakh and Ganjour are protected by special immunity against anti-extremist legislation. Bogdanov says that the same approach can be used in this case with reference to the Bible published by Jehovah's Witnesses. The court decides to refuse to attach these judicial acts to the case.

14:40 The court session was declared open. The investigation of the evidence on the case continues. 14:45 The review of Kryukova's examination, made by the expert-linguist Galina Ivanenko, is announced. Natalia Kryukova's expertise lies at the heart of the prosecutor's claim to recognize the Bible published by Jehovah's Witnesses as extremist material. The review speaks of the unscientific expertise of Kryukova's expertise, the neglect of expert analysis techniques, extensive borrowings from Wikipedia up to the repetition of mistakes.

Can I "like" this more than once ?!!!!

and airfare ...LOL

...it's just a big shadow. ...that's all it is....

If they find our Bible extremist......that means their Bible is also. Will this trigger an attack in Russia against all Christian religions?

I'll give you one like for accuracy, and two for your sense of humour!

Unbelievable!!! God's Word - His Holy Word - to mankind is going on trial!! Russia has no shame!