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DISCUSS COURT CASE HERE JW.org - Jehovah’s Witnesses Mobilize Global Response to Threat of Ban in Russia

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21 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Have at it!

 

Well, I didn't find another translation that renders: 'piles'. There were 'tumors' (ASV, GNB, GW), 'tumors of the groin' (ISV) & 'disease' (BBE). However, I did notice something else. What the NWT renders:

"he began causing panic and striking them with piles";

The 'Brenton' Bible - along with Darby & ERV similarly - renders:

"he brought evil upon them, and it burst out upon them into the ships, and mice sprang up in the midst of their country, and there was a great and indiscriminate mortality in the city"

 

Must be some pretty significant manuscript discrepancies regarding this passage.

 

 

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Adding to my previous comment,

Gill's Exposition says:

" it seems to be what we commonly call the piles, and has its name in Hebrew from the height of them, rising up sometimes into high large tumours:"

 

Jamieson-Faucet-Brown Commentary calls them:

"bleeding piles".

 

Strongs says the word can be translated:

"a mound". 

 

'Piles' is thus appropriately rendered as the disease as it "has its name in Hebrew from the height of them, rising up sometimes into high large tumours" (Gills)

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4 hours ago, 1MKnight said:

 

Well, I didn't find another translation that renders: 'piles'. There were 'tumors' (ASV, GNB, GW), 'tumors of the groin' (ISV) & 'disease' (BBE). However, I did notice something else. What the NWT renders:

"he began causing panic and striking them with piles";

The 'Brenton' Bible - along with Darby & ERV similarly - renders:

"he brought evil upon them, and it burst out upon them into the ships, and mice sprang up in the midst of their country, and there was a great and indiscriminate mortality in the city"

 

Must be some pretty significant manuscript discrepancies regarding this passage.

 

 

Actually it was both piles and jerboa (mice)  mentioned at 1 Sam 6:4.

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7 hours ago, 1MKnight said:

"he brought evil upon them, and it burst out upon them into the ships, and mice sprang up in the midst of their country, and there was a great and indiscriminate mortality in the city"

 

The freewheeling Message translation also can always be depended upon for some zingers:

 

God was hard on the citizens of Ashdod. He devastated them by hitting them with tumors. This happened in both the town and the surrounding neighborhoods. He let loose rats among them. Jumping from ships there, rats swarmed all over the city! And everyone was deathly afraid. 

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8 hours ago, EccentricM said:

 

Pfft. 

 

Time to shut down the church then eh? Yeah? What? No?

Actually the Bible can't be banned as extremist according to Russia's law. But the judges said NWT is not the Bible at all. They can say anything they want. Anyting.

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7 hours ago, Victoria said:

Actually the Bible can't be banned as extremist according to Russia's law. But the judges said NWT is not the Bible at all. They can say anything they want. Anyting.

Perhaps this is the way that the last of the people who have the right heart condition in Russia get to make a choice. As one brother in Africa, in a broadcast, noted, he was amazed at the resources that Jehovah made available on the chance that even one person would respond when they travelled hundreds of kilometres to give a witness. No doubt there would be individuals in Russia who do not agree with what their government is doing to our brothers and sisters. Let's all pray for those in Russia but let's also remember that these things need to occur and Jehovah has it under control.  As Jesus said, (Matthew 5:11, 12) . . .“Happy are you when people reproach you and persecute you and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against you for my sake. 12 Rejoice and be overjoyed, since your reward is great in the heavens, for in that way they persecuted the prophets prior to you.

Edited by garryspicer
Spelling mistake

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17 hours ago, alohapaulette said:

Actually it was both piles and jerboa (mice)  mentioned at 1 Sam 6:4.

 

Interesting, 1 Sam 5:6 is the verse I was evaluating. I am getting the impression that it may have started as a scribal error - seeing the mice mentioned one chapter later, and added them to the aforementioned verse. 

 

 

14 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The freewheeling Message translation also can always be depended upon for some zingers:

 

God was hard on the citizens of Ashdod. He devastated them by hitting them with tumors. This happened in both the town and the surrounding neighborhoods. He let loose rats among them. Jumping from ships there, rats swarmed all over the city! And everyone was deathly afraid. 

Oh yes, the 'Message'. If i recall correctly, this one is heavy on the Trinitarian interpretations. 

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16 hours ago, Loopy said:

https://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/by-region/russia/court-upholds-ruling-declare-bible-extremist/

 

Well, things just got harder for our dear friends in Russia. :(

So, that means more prayers, and more loving care from Jehovah. And, they touched Jehovah’s eyeball. Again. It will be interesting to see the consequences of that action. Most interesting.

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On 04/01/2018 at 10:27 AM, Omoyeme said:

 

Definitely Sis! But I'm going to pray more for Brother Christensen and his wife Irina. -_- 

(His trial is next month.)

 

So true, I always try to mention the Russian brothers in prayer and I have learnt at least the first names of  Paulos Eyasu, Isaac Mogos, and Negede Teklemariam ; so now I and have added Dennis and irina (their family name easier to remember) to my "hit list"  I have felt in my own life Jehovah's loving arms go around me in times of crisis, so I know that he will comfort them all.  I prayed they would let Brother Christensen have a bible and from the reports it seems he must have one now, so you see my prayer WORKED!!  (I'm kidding I know there were millions of others praying for him too.)

 

 

 

 

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Way way back in this thread, around the 140's I think, I posted that I was working on a summary of all events with regard to the Russian ban of our activites. Like many projects we embark upon, it does nothing but grow and grow, and I now have something about 140K words long. It will be the most rigorous work (really, the only rigorous work) I have done.

 

I am in the footnote stage now, and need some help with the following paragraph: 

 

As mentioned, eight governing members of Jehovah’s Witnesses were sentenced to American prison in 1918, on violation of the Espionage and Sedition Act. The religious press rejoiced. Dr. Ray H Abrams, in his book ‘Preachers Present Arms,’ reports: “I have been unable to discover any words of sympathy in any of the orthodox religious journals.”12 By this measure, the Russian media’s response was almost cheery. Most of them rejoiced, but not all. One that did not was Novaya Gazeta, which ran an article summing up Witness beliefs with reasonable accuracy, if not proper order, and was sympathetic to their plight – taking for granted that they must continue their ministry. Included were vignettes telling why some became Witnesses and how they felt they had benefited from the faith. One woman said that she regretted only one thing – that she learned about the Bible too late to save her first marriage. Applying Bible principles would have done it, she felt, if she only had known them.

 

Does anyone here have the 1933 book (it was revised in 2009) Preachers Present Arms, who can tell me what page the above quotation is on?

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Does anyone here have the 1933 book (it was revised in 2009) Preachers Present Arms, who can tell me what page the above quotation is on?

 

3 on Ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PREACHERS-PRESENT-ARMS-ROLE-OF-AMERICAN-CHURCHES-AND-CLERGY-IN-By-Ray-H-Abrams/183017159304?epid=4897704&hash=item2a9cac3a88:g:bwIAAOSwXOhaWxr0

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5 hours ago, Victoria said:

More bad news. Some more publications are claimed extremist. Some more brothers and sisters are charged with a crime because of attending meetings. Now they can go to jail for 10 years. Really scary.

 

Maybe the only ones left who are sighing and crying are in prison. Jehovah knows how to deliver his sheep from wolves.

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12 hours ago, Victoria said:

More bad news. Some more publications are claimed exteremist. Some more brothers and sisters are charged with a crime because of attending meetings. Now they can go to jail for 10 years. Really scary.

Scripture is fulfilled:

Luke 22:31-32

 

31 “Simon, Simon, look! Satan has demanded to have all of you to sift you as wheat. 32 But I have made supplication for you that your faith may not give out;

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Oh sister Victoria, Satan is truly busy over there. I think about the Russian brothers and sisters all the time and pray for them daily. 10 years in prison for attending a meeting?? I also pray that this system does not last this long. 

 

In the meantime I hope everyone over there knows how much we love them and will continue to pray for them. Jehovah has shown time and time again that he knows how to deliver his people out of trial. It's only a matter of time until he shows us once more. 

 

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It's good to remember the example of Jeremiah who preached concerning the end of the Jewish system of things back then. He was abused and mistreated by his fellow Jews. But the system ended with many of those opposers  losing their lives but Jehovah preserved Jeremiah's life.  

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In reference to post #4342:  https://jw-russia.org/news/18020917-286.html

 

Quote

Mass Searches and Criminal Cases Against Believers in Kemerovo and Belgorod -  Reference to the decision of the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation

9 Feb. 2018

 

At least 16 dwellings of civilians in Belgorod and 12 dwellings in Kemerovo were subjected to law enforcement intrusions and searches. Dozens of people have been detained, some have been detained for two days. Citizens are suspected of continuing the activities of the organization "Management Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia". Thus, this criminal prosecution is a direct consequence of the decision of the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation of April 20, 2017 to recognize this organization as "extremist".

 

In the evening of February 7, 2018 in Belgorod, large groups of law enforcement officers, consisting of police officers, the Investigation Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and armed fighters of the SOBR, simultaneously invaded a number of private houses of local residents. In some cases citizens were thrown on the floor, put to the wall, then all were forcibly taken to the police, in the homes they searched. A group of deaf people were also brought to the police, who gathered for friendly communication. In total, the police department on the street. Prince Trubetskoi, 60, were delivered dozens of people. In the management of citizens collected passport data, fingerprinted, discharged summons. The last one left at 9am the next day. Two citizens, Anatoly Shalyapin and Sergei Voikov, were taken into custody for 48 hours, the issue of choosing a preventive measure on suspicion of the continuation of the activities of an extremist organization is being decided (it is known that the case has been initiated). During the searches, which sometimes took place in a rough form and accompanied by offensive comments, citizens were confiscated from the Bible, all electronic devices and media, passports, money, in some cases even photos hanging on the wall.  Already the next day, interrogations of citizens began, which are in the police on the agenda. It became known that an investigation team was established, consisting of 12 (!) Investigators of the Investigation Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Citizens are asked questions like: "Do you really believe that during the Last Judgment everyone will die and you will stay?" And "How do you feel about President Vladimir V. Putin?" During the searches, which sometimes took place in a rough form and accompanied by offensive comments, citizens were confiscated from the Bible, all electronic devices and media, passports, money, in some cases even photos hanging on the wall.  

 

In Kemerovo, fan searches in the homes of civilians were held on January 23, 2018. The case, instituted on January 19, 2018 on part 2 of Art. 282.2 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, is conducted by the investigator of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation for especially important cases, Colonel of Justice Oksana Rybalkina. She petitioned the court to conduct searches in the homes of citizens, arguing that, according to her, at least 14 local residents continue to profess the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses. The judge of the central district court of the city of Kemerovo, Irina Ivanova, at one point satisfied at once at least 12 of her motions. As a result, a search was carried out in 12 houses of peaceful believers, which continued even during the night. In some cases, armed SOBR officers in masks opened their doors by force, bursting in, putting civilians face to the wall with their arms raised or falling to the floor. The apartment was sometimes invaded by more than 10 people, including police officers, Rosgvardia and the Investigative Committee. Citizens were denied the opportunity to make a phone call or to invite a lawyer; the refusal was accompanied by an explanation of Stanislav Shlagov, senior police officer for particularly important cases: "We are not in America." Citizens, including women and the elderly, experience a state close to shock. Many have exacerbated chronic diseases. Telephones, tablets, computers, personal belongings, information carriers are confiscated. It is reported that witnesses who were present during the searches were familiar with the police and actively assisted them, in some cases with their tips. the refusal was accompanied by an explanation of Stanislav Shlagov, senior police officer for particularly important cases: "We are not in America." Citizens, including women and the elderly, experience a state close to shock. Many have exacerbated chronic diseases. Telephones, tablets, computers, personal belongings, information carriers are confiscated. It is reported that witnesses who were present during the searches were familiar with the police and actively assisted them, in some cases with their tips.

 

The Supreme Court of the Russian Federation, banning the activities of the religious organization "Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia," did not deprive believers of their constitutional right to freely profess their religion. However, Judge Ivanova, for example, allowing investigator Rybalkina to conduct searches, did not provide any evidence that citizens just continue to participate in the activities of the organization liquidated by the court, and not simply realize their inalienable constitutional right to freedom of religion. In the Kemerovo Regional Court, 11 appeals have already been filed against judicial decisions to authorize the production of searches.

 

It is noteworthy that the Ministry of Justice of Russia, which requested the liquidation of the juridical person of Jehovah's Witnesses, insisted that the constitutional rights of individual believers do not affect them in any way.

 

Edited by Omoyeme
deleted duplicate sentences.

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1 hour ago, Victoria said:

Yes,  I meant that, but I didn't no the details till today. Now I am TERRIFIED. 

I started reading this as I sat down to start my supper.  I could barely stomach it, and I began crying when I read how they were treating my brothers and sisters.  I started praying and posted it for others to read on my facebook, so those on my page who didn't know (I didn't either until about 20 mins ago) could know and start to pray as well.  I am sickened by this, but I pray that all of you stand firm, and that this turns out to be a witness for those who are sheep that are living in Russia.  I will keep petitioning Jehovah. 

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