Jump to content
JWTalk - Jehovah's Witnesses Discussion Forum
Awakened

Climate Change News

Recommended Posts

Is there climate change ..... who is to say - there may be.

 

I remember back in the 1960's when the cold war started in real earnest .... there were nuclear test being carried out by several countries. Fear ran deep with the threat of Mutual Assured Destruction. Many thought the earth would be ruined by atomic bombs. Fallout shelters were being built at record paces. Even some JW's got swept up into this fervor and built fallout shelters and began storing food.

 

Now, was the threat real ..... yes, it was. Should we have gotten worried that the earth would be destroyed by man?

 

NO!

 

The same holds true of global warming and/or climate change.

 

Is the threat real .... could be

 

Should we be overly concerned?

 

NO!

 

Why not?

 

Jehovah has promised that the earth will endure forever. He also said that this system will still be operating at a pace that some will not take note until His end to this system.

 

So, I, personally, do not get concerned/upset/carried away/consumed with things like this. Jehovah will not let the face of the earth suffer total destruction. He has indicated that HE will end man's abuse of the earth, not that man will cause his own destruction by pollution, nuclear war, climate change or any other means.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, thebluebaron said:

From the outset, I am a climate change denier.

 

2 hours ago, thebluebaron said:

On the subject of melting ice caps, there is a increasing alternate consensus that they are expanding!

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

 

Please read above link. It is no longer possible to be both informed and a climate change denier, since the evidence is now overwhelming🌡📈🍳.  My point was that the world🌎 is in serious trouble🚽 that is balantanly obvious if you look at the facts.🤤 Yet, even people who know the facts, make up and spread lies 💻like the ice caps are expanding.🤞 The reason why, is because they don't want people to panic and stop shopping,🛒 that would be bad for business. There are powerful forces in the world bent on keeping the things as they are as long as they can. These same people are buying islands💵 and building bunkers, ⛏they know what is coming, but that want to squeeze all they can💸 out of the system before it goes☠.

 

On using Matt 24, 📖 the sign includes wars, food shortages and pestilence, all things that are increasing do our changing climate. That is why I made the connection, climate change is intensifying the signs. People ignore this connection just as they ignore the signs and what they mean.🙈🙉🙊

 

Please pardon my coming on so strong on this issue. For someone who has been following this issue for decades the accumulated evidence makes denying it seem on a par with claiming the earth is flat. Yet one of my brothers denies it as well. (CC, he accepts the earth is round😉) I can show him endless evidence📚 and it doesn't convince him. I am hoping that you are more open minded. 💡Otherwise you and my brother can both think that I am nuts and I am fine with that. But I do love a good discussion. 🤼‍♂️

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This just hurts my heart. In the sixties, this prophecy existed. Today, things are lined up like dominoes. And when they start falling, no matter the shape of things, amid the hopelessness, there we will be with that hope shining brightly. And, one mighty thankful group of people.

“So ends the night”. 

(OT. The first time I heard this song, I thought of it as a, “dirge”. And was my too fond of it. I listened, read, and pondered. Now, It is one of the most beautiful pieces of poetry, to me. To music. I even pretty well memorized it!)

Edited by Miss Bea

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

3 hours ago, Wm-Scott said:

 

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

 

Please read above link. It is no longer possible to be both informed and a climate change denier, since the evidence is now overwhelming🌡📈🍳.  My point was that the world🌎 is in serious trouble🚽 that is balantanly obvious if you look at the facts.🤤 Yet, even people who know the facts, make up and spread lies 💻like the ice caps are expanding.🤞 The reason why, is because they don't want people to panic and stop shopping,🛒 that would be bad for business. There are powerful forces in the world bent on keeping the things as they are as long as they can. These same people are buying islands💵 and building bunkers, ⛏they know what is coming, but that want to squeeze all they can💸 out of the system before it goes☠.

 

On using Matt 24, 📖 the sign includes wars, food shortages and pestilence, all things that are increasing do our changing climate. That is why I made the connection, climate change is intensifying the signs. People ignore this connection just as they ignore the signs and what they mean.🙈🙉🙊

 

Please pardon my coming on so strong on this issue. For someone who has been following this issue for decades the accumulated evidence makes denying it seem on a par with claiming the earth is flat. Yet one of my brothers denies it as well. (CC, he accepts the earth is round😉) I can show him endless evidence📚 and it doesn't convince him. I am hoping that you are more open minded. 💡Otherwise you and my brother can both think that I am nuts and I am fine with that. But I do love a good discussion. 🤼‍♂️

Hi Brother William

 

I'm wondering really, as a kindness towards our brothers and sisters,  if we should not assume to conclude they are 'ignoring' facts. I'm in agreement with you about the deplorable and urgent condition of the earth.

 

Obviously your mind veers towards the plight of the earth in a different way than perhaps another person might direct their concerns. IE: someone might be more concerned about the change in animal behaviour - or someone might be more concerned, if they live in cities about the increase of violence or treatment of innocents. So because someone either doesn't agree with you or treats what you say flippantly on your favoured topic, doesn't mean they are ignoring it or think what you say is rubbish. It means we are all different with concerns on a wide range of issues.

 

If we were to be concerned about everything that is going wrong on the planet it would do our heads in. It's at the stage, of not needing to convince people there is something wrong, but focusing on the fact that now it's not reversible, and the ONLY one who can help is Jehovah and his kingdom. I think many come across as 'ignoring' because the evidence is so overwhelming. Many don't know how to process it.

 

I've noticed that the FDS is more and more directing our attention to the POSITIVES of creation ... with all the videos they are releasing, and even in this months broadcast, they are encouraging us to build on our faith in Jehovah  by studying the positive side of creation. Leaving the mess firmly in Jehovah's hands to sort.

 

I felt I had to say something, because when we impute wrong motives (and unless we have this amazing ability to read people hearts - sometimes even uttered words don't show whats really in their hearts) then we could be wronging our brothers and sisters.

 

If you have an interest in an area, which obviously you do, then by all means share it, but don't force it. Those whose hearts are inclined towards the information you convey will read it and come to their own conclusions. None of us can just believe because you say so. It takes time to sit down, meditate, compare it with spiritual/scriptural evidence and then prayerfully come to a conclusion. Give your brothers and sisters both the opportunity and the dignity to do so on their own.

 

Kind regards

Mandi x

 

Just wanted to add William - I personally enjoy much of the information you put up and thank you for that. 

 

 

Edited by Stormswift

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Stormswift said:

I'm wondering really, as a kindness towards our brothers and sisters,  if we should not assume to conclude they are 'ignoring' facts. I'm in agreement with you about the deplorable and urgent condition of the earth.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Stormswift said:

If you have an interest in an area, which obviously you do, then by all means share it, but don't force it. Those whose hearts are inclined towards the information you convey will read it and come to their own conclusions. None of us can just believe because you say so. It takes time to sit down, meditate, compare it with spiritual/scriptural evidence and then prayerfully come to a conclusion. Give your brothers and sisters both the opportunity and the dignity to do so on their own.

 

You do speak words of wisdom my sister. You should have seen the first draft of my post. I really tried to tone it down as much as I could, but perhaps I should have done a better job. 

 

I will point out that our brother has taken a position in the debate and I believe he has done so without examining the evidence. I very much respect his right to make up his own mind and pointed out that one of my brothers has the same opinion as he has. But the fact remains that the evidence of human caused global warming is undeniable. It is a matter of scientific fact extremely well supported by the evidence. I respect his right to his own opinion and certainly don't expect him to take my word for it, which is why I included the link to the NASA webpage on the evidence for global climate change. I wanted him to read the evidence for him self in hopes that he would reevaluate his opionon on the matter, and I let him know I would respect his view even if he decides against it. I should also mention that when I refer to climate change as being a fact or undeniable, I am not expressing my opinion, I am merely stating what the scientific position is on the matter. Please read the NASA webpage on the evidence.

 

I am not overly worried about climate change and see it as a transition to the coming paradise. I expect the change to be quite difficult, but the resulting climate optimum controlled by Jehovah will be fantastic. I do think it would be better if as witnessses we are not caught up in the world's deceptions that everything is fine in the world when tbe evidence is very clear that that is not the case. (I hope that was tactful enough.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Wm-Scott said:

 

You do speak words of wisdom my sister. You should have seen the first draft of my post. I really tried to tone it down as much as I could, but perhaps I should have done a better job. 

 

I will point out that our brother has taken a position in the debate and I believe he has done so without examining the evidence. I very much respect his right to make up his own mind and pointed out that one of my brothers has the same opinion as he has. But the fact remains that the evidence of human caused global warming is undeniable. It is a matter of scientific fact extremely well supported by the evidence. I respect his right to his own opinion and certainly don't expect him to take my word for it, which is why I included the link to the NASA webpage on the evidence for global climate change. I wanted him to read the evidence for him self in hopes that he would reevaluate his opionon on the matter, and I let him know I would respect his view even if he decides against it. I should also mention that when I refer to climate change as being a fact or undeniable, I am not expressing my opinion, I am merely stating what the scientific position is on the matter. Please read the NASA webpage on the evidence.

 

I am not overly worried about climate change and see it as a transition to the coming paradise. I expect the change to be quite difficult, but the resulting climate optimum controlled by Jehovah will be fantastic. I do think it would be better if as witnessses we are not caught up in the world's deceptions that everything is fine in the world when tbe evidence is very clear that that is not the case. (I hope that was tactful enough.)

That's why I chose to answer you, because I saw the efforts you made to respect others, that was just lovely. Just wanted to present some reasoning for consideration that is all.

 

It is very possible you are right about that brother, do not all of us sometimes assume the same about brothers - in our heads? I do with others too sometimes. I've just learnt and am still learning to keep those thoughts private - i've had egg on my face so often lol - or the other way is to speak generically rather than about an individual.

 

Sometimes it might take a news item or a point from the FDS  - then suddenly he may think oh right, William told me that it MIGHT be worth looking into.

 

One of the best skills we can have as Jehovah's people is to salt our words so that our points hit home without offense, and I can see you are using that skill beautifully now. 

 

That's why I love this site so much is that we can ALL bring so many different points to the table, but at the same time treat everyone's perspective as valid, even if we disagree.

 

Much christian love -  your sis Mandi.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Stormswift

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Wm-Scott said:

 

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

 

Please read above link. It is no longer possible to be both informed and a climate change denier, since the evidence is now overwhelming🌡📈🍳.  My point was that the world🌎 is in serious trouble🚽 that is balantanly obvious if you look at the facts.🤤 Yet, even people who know the facts, make up and spread lies 💻like the ice caps are expanding.🤞 The reason why, is because they don't want people to panic and stop shopping,🛒 that would be bad for business. There are powerful forces in the world bent on keeping the things as they are as long as they can. These same people are buying islands💵 and building bunkers, ⛏they know what is coming, but that want to squeeze all they can💸 out of the system before it goes☠.

 

On using Matt 24, 📖 the sign includes wars, food shortages and pestilence, all things that are increasing do our changing climate. That is why I made the connection, climate change is intensifying the signs. People ignore this connection just as they ignore the signs and what they mean.🙈🙉🙊

 

Please pardon my coming on so strong on this issue. For someone who has been following this issue for decades the accumulated evidence makes denying it seem on a par with claiming the earth is flat. Yet one of my brothers denies it as well. (CC, he accepts the earth is round😉) I can show him endless evidence📚 and it doesn't convince him. I am hoping that you are more open minded. 💡Otherwise you and my brother can both think that I am nuts and I am fine with that. But I do love a good discussion. 🤼‍♂️

Facts are that the Ice caps are actually increasing and decreasing, it depends where your looking, overall we are loosing more than gaining. I linked an article that was released on June 14th a few days ago about Antarctica study that was done. West of Antarctica is loosing ice 3 times as fast while east side of Antarctica is gaining Ice. So the scientist who say that it is gaining ice, they are partially correct. But remember these scientist are paid to make these statements. The same when stating facts about the greenhouse gases, most scientists aren’t including Methane that is in the Arctic Ocean, we currently have 5 Gigatons of methane in our atmosphere and about 500 to 1000 or more gigatons in the Arctic Ocean that can potential be released, according to a climate experts at an UN Climate Conferrance it was said that all we need to end life is 1% of methane to release and its over.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fact: 50% of the Great Barrier Reef is dead due to “warming” oceans.

 

Fact: over 200 species of life go extinct every 24 hours. We are in the midst of what scientists refer to as the Holocene Extinction primarily as a result of human activity 

 

Fact: this year the Arctic experienced it’s warmest winter on record 

 

Fact: Antarctica ice melt increased threefold within last 5 years

 

Fact: the 20 hottest years on record have all come since 1995

 

Fact: Multiple studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals1 show that 97 percent or more of actively publishing climate scientists agree*: Climate-warming trends over the past century are extremely likely due to human activities.

 

Fact: Almost 90% of Americans don’t know there’s scientific consensus on global warming 

 

Fact: everyone entitled to their opinion, but it doesn’t change the fact that the facts are the facts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Wm-Scott said:

But the fact remains that the evidence of human caused global warming is undeniable.

 

2 hours ago, Awakened said:

Fact: 50% of the Great Barrier Reef is dead due to “warming” oceans.

Fact: over 200 species of life go extinct every 24 hours. We are in the midst of what scientists refer to as the Holocene Extinction primarily as a result of human activity 

Fact: this year the Arctic experienced it’s warmest winter on record 

Fact: Antarctica ice melt increased threefold within last 5 years

Fact: the 20 hottest years on record have all come since 1995

Fact: Multiple studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals show that 97 percent or more of actively publishing climate scientists agree: Climate-warming trends over the past century are extremely likely due to human activities.

Fact: Almost 90% of Americans don’t know there’s scientific consensus on global warming 

Fact: everyone entitled to their opinion,

 

Let's see, as far as facts go ...

 

  1. Fact: Weather records only go back a few hundred years
  2. Fact: Although there seems to be evidence a man named Jesus lived, there is no scientific evidence he actually raised anyone from the dead
  3. Fact: Life started on earth due to evolution
  4. Fact: God does not exist or cannot be proven scientifically

 

Facts are facts .... or are they?

 

The majority of scientists will agree with the 4 above statements

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but, it doesn’t change the fact that the facts are the facts

 

Just because scientists say something ... does not make it a fact - does it?

 

Personally, though I may agree with statement 1, I certainly do not agree with the last 3 .... but most of those who attend the major university where I live do

 

Now,

  1. Is it possible that climate change is influenced by man? Yes.
  2. Is it possible that climate change is on an up/down cycle that is longer than written records? Yes
  3. Is it possible that climate change is part of the last days? Yes

 

Will those who proclaim gloom and doom about climate change admit that option 2 and 3 are every bit as valid as option 1?

 

You can answer that for yourself...

 

Edited by Qapla

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just think so much of the damage to the earth and it’s cycles is a result of, “man ruining the earth”. Short and simple. 

There are things I’m wanting to say. For me, the ones who deny climate change have been the result of listening to people of a certain persuasion on television. 

Remember the Awake on the climate?I hauled that around for some time, laying low for that son of mine. Waiting for him to bring it up.

One thing we do know is man will have a predominate part in ruining the earth, and they will answer to Jehovah for it! Jehovah will bring ruin to those ruining the earth! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Lewis said:

Facts are that the Ice caps are actually increasing and decreasing, it depends where your looking, overall we are loosing more than gaining. I linked an article that was released on June 14th a few days ago about Antarctica study that was done. West of Antarctica is loosing ice 3 times as fast while east side of Antarctica is gaining Ice. So the scientist who say that it is gaining ice, they are partially correct. But remember these scientist are paid to make these statements.

Here is an article from three years ago on Antarctic gaining ice, notice that even then it was viewed with great doubt. 

 

"A recent study published in the Journal of Glaciology that found the Antarctic ice sheet is expanding because accumulated snowfall is outpacing melting glaciers has drawn sharp criticism from many climate scientists."

"Others were harsher in their critiques of what they saw as a study defying a solid body of evidence, pointing to weaknesses in the method and analysis. “I think the study is just plain wrong, far too inconsistent with other lines of evidence, and not worth the public’s attention,” said Theodore Scambos, a senior research scientist at the National Snow and Ice Data Center." https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-antarctica-losing-ice-or-gaining-it/

 

A more current article.

 

"Most of this ice loss comes from West Antarctica, where the rate of ice melting tripled over the past quarter century from 58 billion to 175 billion tons per year. Less substantial losses occurred in the Antarctic Peninsula, while East Antarctica remained mostly unchanged." https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/antarctica-is-losing-ice-twice-as-fast-as-anyone-thought

 

After more studies, the picture becomes clearer and increased warming makes the answer more obvious in any case. Ice mass in Antartica is shrinking.

 

Yes I am very aware of the methane in the artic, it is a "bomb" waiting to go off. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Qapla said:

Let's see, as far as facts go ...

 

  1. Fact: Weather records only go back a few hundred years
  2. Fact: Although there seems to be evidence a man named Jesus lived, there is no scientific evidence he actually raised anyone from the dead
  3. Fact: Life started on earth due to evolution
  4. Fact: God does not exist or cannot be proven scientifically

1. Proxy climate records extend back for hundreds of thousands of years.

2. There is no scientific evidence that I ate dinner last night, but I did. 

3. Each “fact” in science is weighted according to how much evidence backs it up. This particular “fact” is not as well supported as others since there is no solid theroy and no duplication in a lab.

4. Science is limited to the natural world, the supernatural is out side of the area science can cover directly.

 

11 hours ago, Qapla said:

 

Now,

  1. Is it possible that climate change is influenced by man? Yes.
  2. Is it possible that climate change is on an up/down cycle that is longer than written records? Yes
  3. Is it possible that climate change is part of the last days? Yes

1. This has been proven beyond any possible doubt. See the linked to NASA webpage in earlier post.

2. No, the proxy climate records show that the warming is coming on faster then at any time in earths history as far back as the available proxy evidence goes.

3. Since it is becoming increasingly clear that the warming is causing some of the recent events, it is indeed causing or at least intensifying some of the signs. For proof see the NASA webpage on evidence of global climate change.

 

you are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but you should be aware of what the available evidence is telling us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Wm-Scott said:

you are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but you should be aware of what the available evidence is telling us.

 

??????

 

I guess that you mean that the available evidence is telling us that the end of this system is closer than ever - of that I am very much aware :thumbsup: 

Edited by Qapla

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess with climate change, being an emotional issue for many in the world because it is seen to threaten our survival as a species, we need to tread carefully.  Even if I can see something quite clearly, others will see it differently.  For me, the evidence points to humans have changed so many things on the earth particularly since the Industrial Revolution, that it amplifies any natural swings in climate.  There are ways to gather evidence through core sampling to find out how weather and climate was in times past, greater than just the few hundred years.  Climate has changed earth wide, in the himalayas, in the Pacific, in the poles etc.  It is not localised.  Etc, etc.  

 

But the point has been brought up already - it's salient because it is our only and main focus - all issues and problems will only be sorted out in Jehovah's due time with his Kingdom.  Then all will again be in balance.  What else is there to say?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a little practical note. If you happen to have any coastal property. Something on or near the Gulf of Mexico, Florida, Hawaii, Australia. That your very concerned will soon be flooded by rising sea levels : I have some much higher than sea level property . Maybe we could work out an Acre for acre trade. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Out of all the stories I've encountered on the horrors of climate change, I've not seen much if any commentary on man's encroachment in areas they shouldn't that contribute to the disaster. 

 

New Orleans, for example, is below sea level.  Think about that.  It is on the coast and below sea level.  That sounds like a recipe for disaster.  Credit to the engineers that developed the city, but come on! At some point something like Katrina was going to happen regardless of climate change. 

 

The same goes for Florida.  I have much respect for Carl Fisher for developing Miami. The fact remains that Miami is built on a swamp.  ON A SWAMP.  Is it any wonder there is a constant battle against nature reclaiming Miami? 

 

In top of that, neither city is stagnant.  They constantly grow.  At some point the balance between urban development and nature will be passed.  The reclaimed /above sea level land can only support so much before collapse. 

 

Southern California is the same way.  IT'S A DESERT! Even with modern technology the desert can only support so many people.  Yet people keep moving there. Or being born there.  As the population grows, the demand for water increases.  At some point that will be unsustainable even without climate change. 

 

Locally I see areas flood that never flooded before because of urban development.  The water must go somewhere.  

 

I think a holistic approach to climate change is necessary and overlooked.  All these stories of doom and gloom overlook or play down the aspect that man is encroaching on nature in ways that are unsustainable in the long run. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://metro.co.uk/2018/07/05/global-warming-blame-worldwide-record-breaking-heatwave-7685120/

 

Global warming to blame for ‘worldwide record-breaking heatwave’

 

People are using an extra 200,000,000 litres of water during the heatwave

 

.....it is so hot here....not normal at all.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From BBC news:

Flooding and landslides have killed at least 60 people and left dozens missing in western areas of Japan.

 

About 1.5 million people have been ordered to leave their homes and three million more advised to do so.

Authorities say it could potentially be the worst weather disaster Japan has seen in decades.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At least 44 people have died since July 9, with 11 dying on Saturday alone.

In Kumagaya, a city near Tokyo, the mercury rose to 41.1 degrees (105.98F), the highest ever on record in Japan, according to the Japan Meteorological Agency, almost 12 degrees hotter than average temperatures at this time of year.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/07/23/asia/japan-heatwave-deadly-intl/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Famp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org%2F

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/07/23/world/global-heatwaves-climate-change-wxc/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2Fworld%2F

 

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

 

Summer has brought record heat waves this month on four continents

 

"The impacts of climate change are no longer subtle. We are seeing them play out in real time in the form of unprecedented heat waves, floods, droughts and wildfires. And we've seen them all this summer," he said." one expert says

 

unprecedented wildfires in Sweden

 

The mark of 51.3 C (124 F) is the highest temperature ever reliably recorded on the African continent, according to the World Meteorological Organization.

 

This month, a brutal heat wave also struck Canada, which saw temperatures peak in Montreal on July 2 with a record of 36.6 C (98 F). There were at least 70 heat-related deaths across the province of Quebec; CNN's news partner CBC reported that the number of deaths overwhelmed Montreal's morgue.

 

July has seen 41 heat records set across the United States -- but zero record minimums.

 

2018 is the hottest La Niña year on record (the cooling of the ocean waters in the Pacific during La Niña tends to cool the planet), according to the World Meteorological Association, and with La Niña fading away and El Niño (which warms the Pacific Ocean) likely to take its place, things are only going to get hotter.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NYT: In Greece, Wildfires Kill Dozens, Driving Some Into the Sea

 

ATHENS — Fast-moving wildfires near Athens have killed at least 74 people, officials said on Tuesday.

 

In Greece, blazes have consumed entire towns, locals said, and officials warned that the death toll would rise as emergency workers cleared burned homes and cars, in which some evacuees had become trapped.

 

Europe has sweltered through an unusually hot and dry summer, breaking temperature records and fueling significant fires in several countries, including Sweden and Britain.

The extreme conditions are in line with patterns that scientists attribute to climate change.

 

Edited by Awakened
Font

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.

JWTalk 18.9.15 by Robert Angle (changelog)