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US cutting aid to Central America - due to migrant caravan


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7 hours ago, Santiago2020 said:

sending troops to border soon

Wouldn't it be cheaper to divert the caravan to a large port where everyone could be picked up by a couple of cruise ships? Feed them, house them, have a big job faire and process them humanely while on a cruise ship. Then take them back to their home country if necessary. 

CAUTION: The comments above may contain personal opinion, speculation, inaccurate information, sarcasm, wit, satire or humor, let the reader use discernment...:D

 

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34 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

Wouldn't it be cheaper to divert the caravan to a large port where everyone could be picked up by a couple of cruise ships? Feed them, house them, have a big job faire and process them humanely while on a cruise ship. Then take them back to their home country if necessary. 

A couple of aircraft carriers would be better,  they could use helicopters for transportation and they have built in freshwater converters.

Throw up a bunch of tents on the flight deck and chow lines, all good...

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9 minutes ago, tekmantwo said:

A couple of aircraft carriers would be better,  they could use helicopters for transportation and they have built in freshwater converters.

Throw up a bunch of tents on the flight deck and chow lines, all good...

A free cruise on a nice cruise ship is more respectful and more fun. They are already well equipped to handle that many people.

CAUTION: The comments above may contain personal opinion, speculation, inaccurate information, sarcasm, wit, satire or humor, let the reader use discernment...:D

 

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On 10/22/2018 at 2:27 PM, Santiago2020 said:

I wonder how many brothers are trying to enter the US

 

Shouldn't be long before the military is sent to US - MX border and the borders are shut down

 

https://www.rt.com/usa/441939-trump-migrant-caravan-emergency/

bot calif they will welcome them with opened arms 

 

 

Quote

There should be none. Christians obey the laws of the Caesar which includes not entering a country illegally.

you think so however i do no some who are living hear illegally


Edited by bobby
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On 10/26/2018 at 1:43 AM, Tortuga said:

Wouldn't it be cheaper to divert the caravan to a large port where everyone could be picked up by a couple of cruise ships? Feed them, house them, have a big job faire and process them humanely while on a cruise ship. Then take them back to their home country if necessary. 

The problem is the pull effect. If this caravan were received with open arms and given the help they need, the next week you would have 50,000 more, and the next month 50 million. In fact, there are already several additional caravans on the march. (Please, notice I'm not saying what the US government should or should not do, I'm not stating an opinion, just pointing to a well-known fact.)

 

On 10/26/2018 at 3:58 AM, bobby said:
Quote

There should be none. Christians obey the laws of the Caesar which includes not entering a country illegally. 

you think so however i do no some who are living hear illegally

No, Bobby, this is not just what I think, this is what the Bible and the Slave say. :) I know that some brothers live illegally in a country, but they are disobeying Jehovah and he won't bless their efforts. In fact they cannot have any responsibilities in the congregation, since they are not exemplary.

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21 minutes ago, carlos said:

The problem is the pull effect. If this caravan were received with open arms and given the help they need, the next week you would have 50,000 more, and the next month 50 million. In fact, there are already several additional caravans on the march. (Please, notice I'm not saying what the US government should or should not do, I'm not stating an opinion, just pointing to a well-known fact.)

 

No, Bobby, this is not just what I think, this is what the Bible and the Slave say. :) I know that some brothers live illegally in a country, but they are disobeying Jehovah and he won't bless their efforts. In fact they cannot have any responsibilities in the congregation, since they are not exemplary.

To say that Jehovah won't bless their efforts is quite a reach. Many Spanish congregations prosper in the US. It would appear that Jehovah is blessing their efforts to preach the good news. In many area there is a need for more elders to serve in even more congregations, but as you say ones under a cloud of illegality can not serve in a responsible position. This causes a large shortage of Latinos who can serve.

My grand daughter in law and her brother were brought into country illegally. They are strong witnessses as is their mother. When she and Kory got married, the only tourist destination for their honeymoon was Hawaii which being a US State did not require a passport. Shortly after their marriage the DACA program was put into effect. Both her and her brother registered with immigration under DACA which gives them legal status and green cards, after 18 years of being illegals.  

An interesting side: I do not know if this holds true today, but in times past all an illegal had to do was register with immigration as an illegal immigrant. This action gave them a legal status under the law, pending legal actionon the part of the immigration authorities. At that time legal action agaisnt registered illegal immigrants was not being pursued, but legal status as registered aliens meant they could be appointed. The flip side was any change in enforcement procedures and they could extradited immedeiatly out of the country. For this reason many preferred not to take advantage of this provision. Under the present administration this procedure might provide a degree of legality, but also guarantees they will be sent to their home country posthaste.

 I am not sying I am Superman, I am only saying that nobody has ever seen Superman  and me in a room together.

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 i know when they come they get lots of help, a lot of time more than a citizen 

gets, i often thought about giving up my citizenship so could get some help  i know that i would

be strip of all my responsibilities in the congregation and not relying on Jehovah 

it can be heard  that i am all ways reading 2 pet 3 

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37 minutes ago, bobby said:

 i know when they come they get lots of help, a lot of time more than a citizen 

gets, i often thought about giving up my citizenship so could get some help  i know that i would

be strip of all my responsibilities in the congregation and not relying on Jehovah 

it can be heard  that i am all ways reading 2 pet 3 

Actually, the immigrant has to prove when they apply for residency that they can support themself and their family, if not, they need a sponsor. Once in the US, if the legal resident uses government aide, the sponsor can be held financially responsible to even have to pay it back, and it can affect whether the immigrant can get citizenship. There's a lot of wrong information out there, don't be quick to believe it. 

 

3 hours ago, carlos said:

In fact they cannot have any responsibilities in the congregation, since they are not exemplary.

They are not allowed responsibilities, but they are not being disciplined. They are allowed to get baptized and give comments. My husband and I were allowed to marry in the Kingdom Hall and he was allowed to do maintenance. 

 

The US immigration system is very hard and very costly. Many people have no way to become legal. Even marrying a US citizen doesn't make it easy, although it has changed in recent years. It's better not to judge anyone by their immigration status, as most likely they are doing all they can to obey the law and provide for their families. 

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3 hours ago, Old said:

 

An interesting side: I do not know if this holds true today, but in times past all an illegal had to do was register with immigration as an illegal immigrant. This action gave them a legal status under the law, pending legal actionon the part of the immigration authorities. At that time legal action agaisnt registered illegal immigrants was not being pursued, but legal status as registered aliens meant they could be appointed. The flip side was any change in enforcement procedures and they could extradited immedeiatly out of the country. 

 

This is still, the case today,  why? Because now they are at least trying to comply with the law by registering; so, once complying they can be considered exemplary,  but NOT complying is NOT a good example. 

Plan ahead as if Armageddon will not come in your lifetime, but lead your life as if it will come tomorrow (w 2004 Dec. 1 page 29)

 

 

 

 

Soon .....

 

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1 hour ago, boodles said:

Actually, the immigrant has to prove when they apply for residency that they can support themself and their family, if not, they need a sponsor. Once in the US, if the legal resident uses government aide, the sponsor can be held financially responsible to even have to pay it back, and it can affect whether the immigrant can get citizenship. There's a lot of wrong information out there, don't be quick to believe it. 

 

They are not allowed responsibilities, but they are not being disciplined. They are allowed to get baptized and give comments. My husband and I were allowed to marry in the Kingdom Hall and he was allowed to do maintenance. 

 

The US immigration system is very hard and very costly. Many people have no way to become legal. Even marrying a US citizen doesn't make it easy, although it has changed in recent years. It's better not to judge anyone by their immigration status, as most likely they are doing all they can to obey the law and provide for their families. 

yes and you are right, 

 in any cass, we will have some new people to share and study with 

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3 hours ago, trottigy said:

 

This is still, the case today,  why? Because now they are at least trying to comply with the law by registering; so, once complying they can be considered exemplary,  but NOT complying is NOT a good example. 

 

Did anybody say it was? Yes, I was commenting on making the use of immigration laws. How does not complying come up here? It is obvious in areas where there are  Spanish congregations that their witnessing is being blessed which was the basis of my post. Christ Jesus  is the only good example, all of us fall short, very short. In our area we have a number that are not registering out of fear. I believe you come from an immigrant famliy, did they never have fears?


Edited by Old

 I am not sying I am Superman, I am only saying that nobody has ever seen Superman  and me in a room together.

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Trying to be neutral here with my comment. Australia too has been a place desperate people try to escape to, and the only way to enter illegally is by boat.. Usually if the boats leave Indonesia, they attempt to land on Christmas Island, which is Australian but very close to Indonesia.. And when the boats are intercepted by Border and Immigration boats, they are forcefully turned back.

 

I don’t know what’s involved in physically turning the boats back, but it must be pretty forceful (read: violent), cause they’ve stopped coming ( or we don’t hear of them). And it breaks my heart for all genuinely fleeing and seeking a better life for themselves and their families. The ones that in the past did make it in by boat are languishing in a sort of limbo in the community, with the government fighting all the way to delay even hearing their plea for asylum.  I know. I’m hearing their stories first hand as I come into contact with them at work. One man told me he just wants to end it all. He was thinking it’s better to go back to Iraq, to die by a terrorist bomb. 

 

So, unfortunately, even if they do make it across into a seemingly more affluent land, life doesn’t get easier for them. I know Jehovah sees their plight.

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7 hours ago, Old said:

 

Did anybody say it was? Yes, I was commenting on making the use of immigration laws. How does not complying come up here? It is obvious in areas where there are  Spanish congregations that their witnessing is being blessed which was the basis of my post. Christ Jesus  is the only good example, all of us fall short, very short. In our area we have a number that are not registering out of fear. I believe you come from an immigrant famliy, did they never have fears?

 

So, your thought is - since we are imperfect – and can’t be as good as Jesus - why try??

 

Let's take this to a Biblical example - the one the Slave uses when discussing this topic:

 

Philemon - very small book (only one chapter) - packed with info relevant to today. Sum up of the account, “Onesimus was an unwilling slave who escaped from the household of Philemon in Colossae and fled to Rome. Likely, Onesimus also stole from his master to finance this 900-mile [1,400 km] journey. Indeed, he was useless to Philemon. In Rome, though, Onesimus was helped by Paul to become a Christian. Now a spiritual brother, this formerly “useless” slave became “useful.” ” 

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2008768#h=22

 

Onesimus was in a similar situation as many “illegal immigrants” today are under – his being gone from his “home” illegally, BUT he was baptized and used by Jehovah to help Paul. Was his efforts blessed? Sure, I never said they weren’t. BUT (yep, another one :) ) at some point what does Paul do?

 

Paul obeyed the law – as any good Christian should do – and sent him back to the place where he was legal again. Did Onesimus go? YEP! Also an example for all Christians to do what they can to set things right legally – rather than just saying, “Well, I’m not Jesus – so, I don’t have to.” Was he afraid to go? Possibly - run away slaves were not trreated well when they were returned, but he relied on Jehovah (and it helped that Paul wrote a good letter and that Onesimus' owner was a Christian also). We aren’t told what happens to him when he returns. Why? Because it doesn’t matter. What does matter to Christians is our doing the best we can do in following God’s directions in both word and deed. In this case it is the same as today Rom 13.

 

Fear of man should NEVER cause us to disobey Jehovah. Now is our time to prove that we can stay loyal to Jehovah and rely on Him to help us overcome our fears. He is our Father and will provide for us IF we seek His righteousness first - over our own. (Matt 6:33)
 


Edited by trottigy
Plan ahead as if Armageddon will not come in your lifetime, but lead your life as if it will come tomorrow (w 2004 Dec. 1 page 29)

 

 

 

 

Soon .....

 

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17 hours ago, Old said:

To say that Jehovah won't bless their efforts is quite a reach. Many Spanish congregations prosper in the US. It would appear that Jehovah is blessing their efforts to preach the good news.

Yes, my wording could have been clearer. Jehovah always blesses our efforts to come closer to him. But he cannot bless any bad choices we make. He won't bless our efforts to make a living if we ignore his advice. A brother accepted a job that didn't allow him to attend most meetings and then said Jehovah had blessed him with that job. Sorry, but that surely was not Jehovah's blessing. On the other hand he will surely bless any sincere efforts in preaching the good news. :)

 

14 hours ago, boodles said:

They are not allowed responsibilities, but they are not being disciplined. They are allowed to get baptized and give comments. My husband and I were allowed to marry in the Kingdom Hall and he was allowed to do maintenance. 

 

The US immigration system is very hard and very costly. Many people have no way to become legal. Even marrying a US citizen doesn't make it easy, although it has changed in recent years. It's better not to judge anyone by their immigration status, as most likely they are doing all they can to obey the law and provide for their families. 

I'm glad that you and your husband are doing well now, Loraine. :) And I agree that we cannot judge anyone, since we don't know their motives and neither have the authority of judging. But if Jehovah says something is wrong, we can say it's wrong, can't we?

 

It is a fact, not opinion, that the Bible says Christians should obey the Caesar. If the Caesar has established some legal requirements to emigrate into a country, a Christian should be careful to comply with them or not move there. Christians who disobey the Caesar are disobeying Jehovah, and therefore are not exemplary in the congregation. You are right, there are worse sins that crossing a border illegally. And staying illegally in a country doesn't mean the congregation will take judicial measures. But that doesn't mean it's not wrong. The congregation doesn't take judicial measures either against brothers who evade taxes or who drive without insurance, because the elders are not the police. But those brothers cannot be considered exemplary in any way.

 

As you say, legalizing one's situation is often costly, complex or takes many years, so it's understandable that students in this situation are allowed to become baptized even if the process is not finished, but at least they must have made everything within their power to legalize their status.

 

A mature Christian will follow Jehovah's advice and obey the Caesar. If that Christian made a mistake in the past, we cannot change the past, but he will now take all measures to legalize his situation before it brings reproach on Jehovah's name.

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1 hour ago, carlos said:

He won't bless our efforts to make a living if we ignore his advice. 

 

1 hour ago, carlos said:

But if Jehovah says something is wrong, we can say it's wrong, can't we?

I think if I try to answer, I'm defending illegal immigration, which I don't want to do. But I think you are coming across as too black and white. Jehovah didn't make the borders, he knows we have to provide for our families. Sometimes it's about survival. As in the case of how many in the caravan feel. 

1 hour ago, carlos said:

But those brothers cannot be considered exemplary in any way.

I feel this is too far of a statement, they can be considered exemplary in many ways. Service, commenting, study, fruits of the spirit, etc. 

1 hour ago, carlos said:

 

A mature Christian will follow Jehovah's advice and obey the Caesar. If that Christian made a mistake in the past, we cannot change the past, but he will now take all measures to legalize his situation before it brings reproach on Jehovah's name.

I agree, but if he can't legalize he can still be blessed by Jehovah in many ways. Such as having a Bible study. 

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3 hours ago, boodles said:

I think you are coming across as too black and white. Jehovah didn't make the borders, he knows we have to provide for our families. Sometimes it's about survival. As in the case of how many in the caravan feel. 

I feel this is too far of a statement, they can be considered exemplary in many ways. Service, commenting, study, fruits of the spirit, etc.

We all come from different backgrounds and have gone through different experiences, so it's no surprise that we view things differently and have different sensibilities. :)

 

I think everything I wrote here is in line with what the Slave says, but there's no point in insisting on it. I'm afraid it would only irritate you, Loraine, which is the last thing I would want to do.

 

Let's all do our best to please Jehovah and enjoy his abundant blessings.

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The thing that many seem to be overlooking (not necessarily here, but in the press) is that this caravan is not full of illegal aliens, at least as far as the United States is concerned.  They are not *in* the US, so how can they be illegal?

 

The other thing is - if the intent is to apply for asylum or refugee status (which many if not most are), the LEGAL way to do it is to arrive at a port of entry and make that application.  There is no other way to seek asylum except to actually go and apply.  The current administration is certainly making it more difficult for this to happen and there are many ways it may not work out for good.  It's a fairly simple matter for the immigrations officer to decide a person is unworthy, deport them and they are ineligible to apply again for another five years.

 

Certainly regulations and rules must be followed but it seems that most don't care why these people are running... just that they're coming here.  It's a tragedy all around.  :( 

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On 10/23/2018 at 7:20 PM, carlos said:

But sooner or later they will arrive at the border and come across a wire fence and armed soldiers. What are they going to do then? 

I don’t think they will shoot anybody, that wouldn’t  be politically correct :tsk: but they will probably be forced to take them into custody and vet them.... then send them back separately. I’m sure we’ll be seeing a lot of pictures in the news of them being held like cattle in some type of camp.


Edited by Pjdriver

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem." (tu)  

All spelling and grammatical errors are for your enjoyment and entertainment only and are copyright Burt, aka Pjdriver.

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Trump could set up a shuttle service straight to Canada :eek:

:lol1:

CAUTION: The comments above may contain personal opinion, speculation, inaccurate information, sarcasm, wit, satire or humor, let the reader use discernment...:D

 

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