President Putin says Jehovah's Witnesses are not terrorists?

[Tortuga]

President Putin considers it wrong to attribute Jehovah's Witnesses to destructive organizations

 

Vladimir Putin: “Jehovah's Witnesses are also Christians, for which I do not understand them too much”

 

https://www.jw-russia.org/news/18121716-544.html

 

“This is complete nonsense, we must carefully deal with this,” commented Vladimir Putin on the inclusion of Jehovah's Witnesses in the list of extremist organizations. The corresponding question was asked of him at a meeting of the Council for the Development of Civil Society and Human Rights, which was held in Moscow on December 11, 2018. “Must at some point be much more liberal ... To treat members of all religions in the same way. [They should not] be credited to some destructive ones, not even to terrorist organizations. ”

 

In the mean time...

https://www.jw-russia.org/prisoners.html

Edited December 17, 2018 by Tortuga

[BLEmom]

And that’s how professional politicians speak out of both sides of the mouth. A+! 😜

[Thesauron]

He sure is an oddball, but we’ll see if something good can come out of this...

[Loopy]

39 minutes ago, BLEmom said:

And that’s how professional politicians speak out of both sides of the mouth. A+! 😜

Yes, I was gonna post....”well do something about it! You’ve got the authority!!!!! 

 

 

[Bek]

Putin is playing the good cop here. It is part of politics in our region. Usually, the government or security bodies play the bad cop and Putin comes out at the end chiding them for doing something nasty and says things should be rectified. 

 

Quote

Vladimir Putin: “Jehovah's Witnesses are also Christians, for which I do not understand them too much”

This should be translated this way: "Jehovah's Witnesses are also Christians. I do not quite understand what to persecute them for. 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Bek

[CouveBro]

1 hour ago, Thesauron said:

He sure is an oddball, but we’ll see if something good can come out of this...

That sure would be great if he could reverse everything that's been done so far! To feel the joy of worshiping openly and freely again. I can't even imagine what that is like. 

[Stormswift]

That Russian Orthodox crew are probably having more sway than even Putin knows maybe? Remember back in Jesus's time the Pharisees were rushing from one political persona to another stirring things up? 

 

Sounds like Putin has been a puppet ... maybe he will get angry with them and turn on the RO?

[carlos]

17 minutes ago, Stormswift said:

Sounds like Putin has been a puppet ... maybe he will get angry with them and turn on the RO?

No, there's no way this has been done without his knowledge and approval. As Nurzat mentioned he's just saving face in an international forum. He will go back home and nothing will be done about it.

[Bek]

31 minutes ago, Stormswift said:

That Russian Orthodox crew are probably having more sway than even Putin knows maybe? Remember back in Jesus's time the Pharisees were rushing from one political persona to another stirring things up? 

 

Sounds like Putin has been a puppet ... maybe he will get angry with them and turn on the RO?

The Russian Orthodox Church is very powerful, but it cannot act alone. It should always agree its actions with Putin who in turn sets his attack dogs on the targets. The Russian leader wields so much power that none of the current Western leaders has had even in their wildest dreams. He is practically a tsar who has the final say on everything.  

[Miss Bea]

Um, are we going to give credibility to such words? Actions speak louder then words. And, we hear plenty of crazy words, now days.

He’s probably gotten international attention because of what has happened in Russia, to us. 

Lip service...

[Vinnie]

” A little later, the President returned to the topic of persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses: “Jehovah's Witnesses are also Christians, for which I do not really understand how to persecute them.”

 

To me he is saying , he tried to stop us, dissuade us in our work, jail us, say many lies about us and nothing works against us.  He maybe was thinking we would retaliate in some violent way, but we are not like that and he is baffled.

 

 

[Naturale]

Well the way it seems is that Putin benefits greatly from his relationship with the Orthodox Church. He sees the church as a key to his power so he has revived it.  It is the only Orthodox church backed by state power.  He has made great effort to get people back into the church.  Under Putin it has become a government agency, part of the state, a powerful political entity.   I guess witnesses are viewed as a threat to the church so ...

[Bruceq]

The translation of this article is a little off I think. Here is the translation from Russian Religion News : It is not "I don't understand them too much"

Russian president questions persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses

VLADIMIR PUTIN: JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ARE ALSO CHRISTIANS, FOR WHICH THEY ARE PERSECUTED AND I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT WELL

Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia, 17 December 2018

 

"This is complete nonsense and it is necessary to deal with this attentively," Vladimir Putin commented on the inclusion of Jehovah's Witnesses in the list of extremist organizations. A relevant question was posed to him in a session of the Council for the Development of Civil Society and Human Rights, which was held in Moscow on 11 December 2018.

 

"At such a time, we must be much more liberal. . . . We must treat representatives of all religions in the same way. [We must not] classify them as some kind of destructive ones nor as terrorist organizations."

 

The rights advocate Ekaterina Shulman called attention to the problem. She pointed out that in the official "List of terrorists and extremists" the majority are 404 organizations of Jehovah's Witnesses. "They certainly do not call for violence and they do not practice it," the rights advocate declared.

 

In response Vladimir Putin said: "With regard to Jehovah's Witnesses. We certain can, and we even must at such a time be much more liberal toward representatives of various religious sects, but we must not forget that our society does not consist exclusively of religious sects. Ninety percent of citizens of the Russian Federation, or so, consider themselves to be Orthodox Christians. We also have another three actual traditional religions, to which the state provides help. We must treat representatives of all religions in the same way. This is true, but it is still necessary to consider the country and society in which we live. It is true that this does not at all mean that we should classify them as some kind of destructive ones nor as terrorist organizations. Of course, this is complete nonsense and it is necessary to deal with this attentively. Here I agree with you." A bit later the president again returned to the topic of the persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses: "Jehovah's Witnesses are also Christians and for this they are persecuted, and I do not understand this well."

 

In international forums the government of Russia has already frequently declared that the decisions of Russian courts regarding the liquidation and ban of organizations of Jehovah's Witnesses "do not make an assessment of the teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and do not contain restriction or prohibition of professing individually the aforesaid teaching." Meanwhile, dozens of citizens of Russia are at the present time in prison or under house arrest merely because of the fact that they profess the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses. (tr. by PDS, posted 17 December 2018)

 

Russia Religion News Current News Items

[Sheep]

3 minutes ago, Bruceq said:

The translation of this article is a little off I think. Here is the translation from Russian Religion News : It is not "I don't understand them too much"

Thank you, Bruce. I thought the same thing and was in the process of writing a post about  it. You beat me to it!

 

https://www2.stetson.edu/~psteeves/relnews/181217d.html

[Bek]

Br. Bruce, the translation is a little better, but some parts are still not accurate. 

 

Mind you, the word "sect" in Russian does not mean the same thing as in English. In Russian, it has a negative almost derogatory connotation. The English equivalent would be " a cult". We get called "sect members" here in the Russian-speaking world quite often and it is meant to insult us. Putin is using that word in his speech. 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Bek

[Stormswift]

1 hour ago, Bek said:

The Russian Orthodox Church is very powerful, but it cannot act alone. It should always agree its actions with Putin who in turn sets his attack dogs on the targets. The Russian leader wields so much power that none of the current Western leaders has had even in their wildest dreams. He is practically a tsar who has the final say on everything.  

It may not act alone, but Putin may not see the direction it is urging him. Satan is the puppeteer not Putin.

[Sheep]

Another angle:

 

https://cursorinfo.co.il/all-news/putin-vzyal-pod-zashhitu-svidetelej-iegovy/

[Bek]

The BBC Russian has published a report with more details on the meeting of the Russian human rights council that was held on 11 December.

 

I have translated some key parts of it, but did not translate Putin's words because they are already in the above reports. He basically says that considering JWs as extremists and even terrorists is complete nonsense. He adds that he would look into the issue and ask the chairman of the Russian Supreme Court to try to analyse the issue. 

 

Here is my quick translation of those parts: 

 

A political scientist, Yekaterina Shulman, cited statistics on organisations that have been found to be extremist and terrorist: "There are 489 of them and 404 are of Jehovah's Witnesses," Shulman said. There are maybe many complaints against Jehovah's Witnesses - they do not do blood transfusions, do not send kids to the hospital, - but they certainly do not incite violence and do not carry it out". 

 

"We have noted the president's reaction with surprise. If he knows about the whole situation, then probably his reaction could change something. We hope that he will give instructions to have the matter examined and something may happen. Though, knowing the realities of our country, there is not much optimism," the press secretary of JWs in Russia, Yaroslav Sivulski,  told the BBC.

 

"It is difficult to describe the statement as support, but the fact itself that he expressed his viewpoint could be a sign that accusations against JWs of terrorism and extremism are baseless," he said. 

 

Sivulski recalled that it was not the first time that Putin was asked about JWs, but until this, he had not expressed his attitude. Thus, in May 2017, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said that she had raised the issue of JW rights with Putin . 

 

Sivulski also said that JWs had written many letters to President Putin and his administration before the Supreme Court banned the organisation in April 2017. At the time, he said, we could not get "even a formal response".

 

"It is difficult to say what is actually happening, but we do have a modest hope that those who are already in custody could be freed because they have not committed crimes, but simply were reading the Bible. This is the first thing that the law-enforcement bodies should do," Sivulski suggested. 

 

The original article in Russian: https://www.bbc.com/russian/news-46598425

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Bek

[Tortuga]

It appears that Mr Putin may speak with a forked tongue...

[Bruceq]

3 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

It appears that Mr Putin may speak with a forked tongue...

Politician.

 

Whatever happens notice that Jehovah is being made known and Jehovah will use it according to his purpose. We stand firm and watch.

[Bruceq]

What happened to all the letters we wrote to him...you're telling us he saw none of them and knew nothing about the plight of Jehovah's Witnesses. Apparently there is some other agenda at work here. May Jehovah's Will be done.

[Bek]

3 hours ago, Naturale said:

Well the way it seems is that Putin benefits greatly from his relationship with the Orthodox Church. He sees the church as a key to his power so he has revived it.  It is the only Orthodox church backed by state power.  He has made great effort to get people back into the church.  Under Putin it has become a government agency, part of the state, a powerful political entity.   I guess witnesses are viewed as a threat to the church so ...

Very good analysis, Susanna. You are well-informed about Russian politics. 

[pnutts]

The world saw Jehovah's name in a good light in the news throughout the world.

Many saw His name who never paid attention beforehand.

[Tortuga]

16 minutes ago, Bruceq said:

What happened to all the letters we wrote to him...you're telling us he saw none of them and knew nothing about the plight of Jehovah's Witnesses. 

You talking to me?

[dove]

1 minute ago, pnutts said:

The world saw Jehovah's name in a good light in the news throughout the world.

Many saw His name who never paid attention beforehand.

Sometimes too when it's seen that a peaceful people are being unjustly persecuted and mistreated, it can generate sympathy and may even attract support and interest where it wasn't there before..