how long it will be for the subject up for voting...is the removal for religion?

[sianrose]

After listening to the UN voting...on Libya...

I started wondering ...how long it will be for the subject up for voting...is the removal for religion?

Following U.N. Vote, France Vows Libya Action ‘Soon’

UNITED NATIONS — Only hours after the United Nations Security Council voted to authorize military action, including airstrikes against Libyan tanks and heavy artillery and impose a no-flight zone to try to avert a rout of rebels by forces loyal to Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi. French officials said on Friday that military action would start “within a few hours” and news reports said British and French warplanes would spearhead the attack.

On the ground, forces loyal to Colonel Qaddafi unleashed a barrage of fire against the rebel-held town of Misurata in the west of the country while one of the colonel’s sons, Saif el-Islam, was quoted as saying government forces would encircle the rebel stronghold of Benghazi in the east.

François Baroin, a French government spokesman, told RTL radio that airstrikes would come “rapidly, within a few hours” following the United Nations resolution late Thursday authorizing “all necessary measures” to impose a no-flight zone.

full article

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/19/world/africa/19libya.html?src=twrhp

[Sunnyside]

Sian we can but wait but it has been said to be one of the "top secret" agenda of the UN. Rev 9: 21 21 is a good reminder as to the timing.

"And a strong angel lifted up a stone like a great millstone and hurled it into the sea, saying: “Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again.

Simply cannot wait for that SWIFT PITCH!!

[Shawnster]

Well, right now the UN has no real power. Until it can make laws or enforce binding regulations, it has no teeth.

Some of us assume the decision to turn on religion will come from the UN. Will it? Or will it be a series of seeming unrelated events?

It was brought out at the Annual Meeting that we WILL KNOW when the Great Tribulation begins. Sometimes we've only understood prophecy fulfillment after the fact. Not in this case. There will be no guessing or wondering if we're in the Great Tribulation. When it starts, we'll definitely know it's started.

[Brother_Bliss]

It was brought out at the Annual Meeting that we WILL KNOW when the Great Tribulation begins. Sometimes we've only understood prophecy fulfillment after the fact. Not in this case. There will be no guessing or wondering if we're in the Great Tribulation. When it starts, we'll definitely know it's started.

Welcome Shawn (and fellow Ohioan). Your first post! ----->

We had a CO say at a congregation meeting several years ago that when the Great Tribulation has begun, there will be an announcement made at the next Service Meeting :-)

I would hate to have missed that meeting!

I think we should applaud

[sianrose]

Hi Shawn

first hello and welcome..

last Sunday at our public talk...it was brought out that ...world politics and the UN would turn on and destroy false religion...and we then had a discussion on Revelation 17... Ezekiel 38...Daniel 2...

[Mo]

I can't WAIT for this to happen.

[jeremy]

Hello Shawn, and welcome here.

Some of us assume the decision to turn on religion will come from the UN. Will it? Or will it be a series of seeming unrelated events?

Interesting. Different from the action of turning on BTG. Let's stay at those Service Meetings.

[sianrose]

I thought these paragraphs about the steps up to Armageddon were informative...and strengthening...

Facing Tests Ahead With Faith

8 In fulfillment of Bible prophecy, we will soon hear the cry “Peace and security!” (1 Thessalonians 5:3) Could this put our faith to the test? Yes, for we are in danger of being caught off guard by the apparent success that the nations may have in bringing about peace. But we will not share the spirit of such peace proclaimers if we keep in mind that Jehovah God is not using any of the agencies of this world toward that end. He has his own way to bring true peace, and that is only by means of his Kingdom under Jesus Christ. Hence, whatever success the nations may have in establishing peace, it will be brief and only a veneer. To help us keep on guard in this respect, “the faithful and discreet slave” will continue to publish timely warnings so that Jehovah’s servants will not be caught off guard by the coming pretentious proclamation of “Peace and security” by the nations of this old system of things.—Matthew 24:45-47.

9 The cry “Peace and security!” will be the signal for “sudden destruction” to come upon Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion. (Revelation 17:1-6; 18:4, 5) This too will test Christian faith. With false religion collapsing in ruins, will Jehovah’s Witnesses remain firm in faith? Of course they will. This event—unexpected and incomprehensible for most people—will not be of man’s doing. People must know that in reality it is Jehovah’s judgment, in sanctification of the name that false religion has long reviled. But how could people know unless someone had told them? And who besides Jehovah’s Witnesses could be expected to tell them so?—Compare Ezekiel 35:14, 15; Romans 10:13-15.

10 Anointed Witnesses of Jehovah and their associates with an earthly hope have had the courage needed to tell others about the imminent execution of Jehovah’s judgment against Babylon the Great and the rest of Satan’s system of things. (2 Corinthians 4:4) In his role as Gog of Magog, denoting his present degraded position, Satan will marshal his earthly forces for an all-out attack on God’s people. Faith in divine protective powers in behalf of Jehovah’s Witnesses will be put to the test. But we can have faith that as God’s Word foretold, Jehovah will rescue his people.—Ezekiel 38:16; 39:18-23.

11 Today, we do not know exactly how Jehovah will protect his people during the “great tribulation,” but this is no reason to doubt that he will do so. (Matthew 24:21, 22) The situation of God’s present-day servants will be like that in which Noah and his family found themselves during the Flood. Shut up inside the ark with the swirling waters of destruction around them, likely they were awestruck by this demonstration of divine power and must have prayed earnestly. There is no Scriptural indication that they were worried and asked themselves: ‘Is the ark really sturdy enough to survive the destructive forces? Do we have enough food to last until the Flood is over? Will we be able to cope with the changed circumstances on earth afterward?’ Subsequent events proved that such worries would have been unfounded.

w91 9/15

[sianrose]

Hi Shawn

with reguard to

the decision to turn on religion will come from the UN. Will it? Or will it be a series of seeming unrelated events?

will this be a new thought to ...

"Again Jehovah uses human rulers in executing judgment. “For God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought, even to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished.” (Revelation 17:17)

What is God’s “thought”? To arrange for the executioners of Babylon the Great to band together, in order to destroy her completely. Of course, the rulers’ motive in attacking her will be to carry out their own “one thought.”

They will feel that it is in their nationalistic interests to turn upon the great harlot. They may come to view the continued existence of organized religion within their boundaries as a threat to their sovereignty. But Jehovah will actually be maneuvering matters; they will carry out his thought by destroying his age-old, adulterous enemy at one stroke!—Compare Jeremiah 7:8-11, 34.

Yes, the nations will use the scarlet-colored wild beast, the United Nations, in destroying Babylon the Great. They do not act on their own initiative, for Jehovah puts it into their hearts “even to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast.”

When the time comes, the nations will evidently see the need to strengthen the United Nations. They will give it teeth, as it were, lending it whatever authority and power they possess so that it can turn upon false religion and fight successfully against her “until the words of God will have been accomplished.”

Chapter 35

Executing Babylon the Great

Re

[ksg55]

I thought these paragraphs about the steps up to Armageddon were informative...and strengthening...

Facing Tests Ahead With Faith

8 In fulfillment of Bible prophecy, we will soon hear the cry “Peace and security!” (1 Thessalonians 5:3) Could this put our faith to the test? Yes, for we are in danger of being caught off guard by the apparent success that the nations may have in bringing about peace. But we will not share the spirit of such peace proclaimers if we keep in mind that Jehovah God is not using any of the agencies of this world toward that end. He has his own way to bring true peace, and that is only by means of his Kingdom under Jesus Christ. Hence, whatever success the nations may have in establishing peace, it will be brief and only a veneer. To help us keep on guard in this respect, “the faithful and discreet slave” will continue to publish timely warnings so that Jehovah’s servants will not be caught off guard by the coming pretentious proclamation of “Peace and security” by the nations of this old system of things.—Matthew 24:45-47.

9 The cry “Peace and security!” will be the signal for “sudden destruction” to come upon Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion. (Revelation 17:1-6; 18:4, 5) This too will test Christian faith. With false religion collapsing in ruins, will Jehovah’s Witnesses remain firm in faith? Of course they will. This event—unexpected and incomprehensible for most people—will not be of man’s doing. People must know that in reality it is Jehovah’s judgment, in sanctification of the name that false religion has long reviled. But how could people know unless someone had told them? And who besides Jehovah’s Witnesses could be expected to tell them so?—Compare Ezekiel 35:14, 15; Romans 10:13-15.

10 Anointed Witnesses of Jehovah and their associates with an earthly hope have had the courage needed to tell others about the imminent execution of Jehovah’s judgment against Babylon the Great and the rest of Satan’s system of things. (2 Corinthians 4:4) In his role as Gog of Magog, denoting his present degraded position, Satan will marshal his earthly forces for an all-out attack on God’s people. Faith in divine protective powers in behalf of Jehovah’s Witnesses will be put to the test. But we can have faith that as God’s Word foretold, Jehovah will rescue his people.—Ezekiel 38:16; 39:18-23.

11 Today, we do not know exactly how Jehovah will protect his people during the “great tribulation,” but this is no reason to doubt that he will do so. (Matthew 24:21, 22) The situation of God’s present-day servants will be like that in which Noah and his family found themselves during the Flood. Shut up inside the ark with the swirling waters of destruction around them, likely they were awestruck by this demonstration of divine power and must have prayed earnestly. There is no Scriptural indication that they were worried and asked themselves: ‘Is the ark really sturdy enough to survive the destructive forces? Do we have enough food to last until the Flood is over? Will we be able to cope with the changed circumstances on earth afterward?’ Subsequent events proved that such worries would have been unfounded.

w91 9/15

Thanks for sharing that Sian,

I've been rereading parts of the "Revelation" book and I like the thought expressed, "What form will this significant cry of "Peace and security!" take? It is here mentioned as being outstanding just before the sudden destruction of those making the cry. Hence, it will HAVE TO BE MORE PRONOUNCED THAN ANY PREVIOUS DECLARATIONS BY WORLD LEADERS. No doubt, IT WILL BE ON AN EARTH-WIDE SCALE. Yet, it will be a facade." (emphasis mine) (chp. 34, p 251, par. 14)

So the "outstanding pronouncment" or "significant cry" comes "just before the sudden destruction of those making the cry." So those making the pronouncement, are they not the governments, UN, world leaders? The paragraph in Revelation indicates that. If so, does peace and security pronouncment come before or after the destruction of BTG? This is what is confusing to me. I fully accept what is given us by the FDS.....but the destruction of BTG comes first, as the first phase of the great tribulation.....so, does the announcing of "Peace and security!" come before destruction of BTG, w/the rest of Satan's system, w/governments, merchants, unrighteous to follow? The part that confuses me is the statement of after the pronouncment, then "sudden destruction" would be upon them. Any others want to weigh in, or Sian, maybe you a little more? :readbible:

[ksg55]

A little more on chp 35 par 17, pg 258: "When the time comes, the nations will evidently SEE THE NEED TO STRENGTHEN the United Nations. (emphasis mine). They will give it teeth, as it were, LENDING IT WHATEVER AUTHORITY AND POWER THEY POSSESS so that IT can turn upon false religion and fight successfully against her "until the words of God will have been accomplished."

So the UN will be used to destroy BTG, but it is only an image of the wild beast, what powers it has, it receives from the the wild beast....the beast, or nations, think it is their thought, but it is really God's thought that they act on.....giving power to the image, or UN to accomplish the act of destroying BTG. Our book on Revelation is so enlightening as to what we can expect in the days ahead. We could always pick up this book and read from it from time to time, it has a wealth of spiritual food for us in these coming days. :readbible:

[ksg55]

just a note: was noting the nations as a beast, seperate from the UN, the scarlot-colored beast.....chapter 28 talks about the different world powers as "beasts", not wanting to confuse that the UN is the "scarlot-colored" wild beast, the image of all the world powers and nations that exist before and in the "last hour." Chapter 32, pg 227 par 15 says: "The wild beast" is Satan's governmental system." In which Satan, as "the dragon gave to the beast its power and its throne and great authority."

[Brother_Bliss]

Hi Shawn

with reguard to

the decision to turn on religion will come from the UN. Will it? Or will it be a series of seeming unrelated events?

will this be a new thought to ...

Chapter 35

Executing Babylon the Great

Re

Actually, if you look closely, we are all in agreement here.

[ksg55]

Some of us assume the decision to turn on religion will come from the UN. Will it? Or will it be a series of seeming unrelated events?

Hi Shawn,

I'm not sure what you mean by "some of us assume the decision will come from the UN. Yes, it could stem from "a seeming unrelated events," but whatever the things that lead up to BTG's destruction, it will be by the hands of the "image" that is given the power by the nations to do so. We also know that it is Jehovah that puts the one thought into their heart, they thinking it is their idea, when it is Jehovah's thought. We listed the book, Revelation, It's Grand Climax At Hand! w/chpts. and paragraphs where we find this information. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, but I wouldn't call it an assumption as the FDS has told us the means as to how BTG is destroyed. If I am misunderstanding, I do apologize. But I also wanted to say welcome too.

[ksg55]

I thought these paragraphs about the steps up to Armageddon were informative...and strengthening...

Facing Tests Ahead With Faith

8 In fulfillment of Bible prophecy, we will soon hear the cry “Peace and security!” (1 Thessalonians 5:3) Could this put our faith to the test? Yes, for we are in danger of being caught off guard by the apparent success that the nations may have in bringing about peace. But we will not share the spirit of such peace proclaimers if we keep in mind that Jehovah God is not using any of the agencies of this world toward that end. He has his own way to bring true peace, and that is only by means of his Kingdom under Jesus Christ. Hence, whatever success the nations may have in establishing peace, it will be brief and only a veneer. To help us keep on guard in this respect, “the faithful and discreet slave” will continue to publish timely warnings so that Jehovah’s servants will not be caught off guard by the coming pretentious proclamation of “Peace and security” by the nations of this old system of things.—Matthew 24:45-47.

9 The cry “Peace and security!” will be the signal for “sudden destruction” to come upon Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion. (Revelation 17:1-6; 18:4, 5) This too will test Christian faith. With false religion collapsing in ruins, will Jehovah’s Witnesses remain firm in faith? Of course they will. This event—unexpected and incomprehensible for most people—will not be of man’s doing. People must know that in reality it is Jehovah’s judgment, in sanctification of the name that false religion has long reviled. But how could people know unless someone had told them? And who besides Jehovah’s Witnesses could be expected to tell them so?—Compare Ezekiel 35:14, 15; Romans 10:13-15.

10 Anointed Witnesses of Jehovah and their associates with an earthly hope have had the courage needed to tell others about the imminent execution of Jehovah’s judgment against Babylon the Great and the rest of Satan’s system of things. (2 Corinthians 4:4) In his role as Gog of Magog, denoting his present degraded position, Satan will marshal his earthly forces for an all-out attack on God’s people. Faith in divine protective powers in behalf of Jehovah’s Witnesses will be put to the test. But we can have faith that as God’s Word foretold, Jehovah will rescue his people.—Ezekiel 38:16; 39:18-23.

11 Today, we do not know exactly how Jehovah will protect his people during the “great tribulation,” but this is no reason to doubt that he will do so. (Matthew 24:21, 22) The situation of God’s present-day servants will be like that in which Noah and his family found themselves during the Flood. Shut up inside the ark with the swirling waters of destruction around them, likely they were awestruck by this demonstration of divine power and must have prayed earnestly. There is no Scriptural indication that they were worried and asked themselves: ‘Is the ark really sturdy enough to survive the destructive forces? Do we have enough food to last until the Flood is over? Will we be able to cope with the changed circumstances on earth afterward?’ Subsequent events proved that such worries would have been unfounded.

w91 9/15

Thanks for sharing that Sian,

I've been rereading parts of the "Revelation" book and I like the thought expressed, "What form will this significant cry of "Peace and security!" take? It is here mentioned as being outstanding just before the sudden destruction of those making the cry. Hence, it will HAVE TO BE MORE PRONOUNCED THAN ANY PREVIOUS DECLARATIONS BY WORLD LEADERS. No doubt, IT WILL BE ON AN EARTH-WIDE SCALE. Yet, it will be a facade." (emphasis mine) (chp. 34, p 251, par. 14)

So the "outstanding pronouncment" or "significant cry" comes "just before the sudden destruction of those making the cry." So those making the pronouncement, are they not the governments, UN, world leaders? The paragraph in Revelation indicates that. If so, does peace and security pronouncment come before or after the destruction of BTG? This is what is confusing to me. I fully accept what is given us by the FDS.....but the destruction of BTG comes first, as the first phase of the great tribulation.....so, does the announcing of "Peace and security!" come before destruction of BTG, w/the rest of Satan's system, w/governments, merchants, unrighteous to follow? The part that confuses me is the statement of after the pronouncment, then "sudden destruction" would be upon them. Any others want to weigh in, or Sian, maybe you a little more? :readbible:

This question of mine looks confusing.......what I'm asking is "who" is doing the pronouncment of "Peace and security!" ? Paragraph 14 says that it "is here mentioned as being outstanding just before the sudden destruction of those making the cry." And then goes on to say in the same paragraph, "it will have to be more pronounced than any previous declarations by world leaders." So is it the religions making the pronouncment or the world leaders, as it says that sudden destruction comes to "those making the cry?" Maybe I'm thinking too literal, and the cry is given, and then sudden destruction comes to BTG. But I had thought that 'sudden destruction" was speaking of all unrighteous at the end of the great tribulation. That one would be standing and one would be taken along, etc. Anyways, this is the one thing that has confused me abit, but again, I'm happy to be so well-fed by the FDS. :readbible:

[leannsmarie]

Karen, This is what I think based on scripture (although the Slave has not indicated so that I am aware of.)

We read in the Reference Bible in 1 Thess 5:3 :

Whenever it is that they are saying: “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman; and they will by no means escape.

In that verse, you will see that there is a reference to Jeremiah 8:9. Perhaps this may give us some idea who 'they' are.

But to get a better sense of what is being stated I will include vs 8-12 below:

8 “‘How can YOU men say: “We are wise, and the law of Jehovah is with us”? Surely, now, the false stylus of the secretaries has worked in sheer falsehood. 9 The wise ones have become ashamed. They have become terrified and will be caught. Look! They have rejected the very word of Jehovah, and what wisdom do they have? 10 Therefore I shall give their wives to other men, their fields to those taking possession; for, from the least one even to the greatest one, each one is making unjust gain; from the prophet even to the priest, each one is acting falsely. 11 And they try to heal the breakdown of the daughter of my people lightly, saying: “There is peace! There is peace!” when there is no peace. 12 Did they feel shame because they had done even what was detestable? For one thing, they positively could not feel ashamed; for another thing, they did not know even how to feel humiliated.. . .

Who are they then?

Verse 10 says from the prophet even to the priest.

It would seem to indicate that it was the religious element in Jeremiah's day that was claiming that there was, or would be "Peace and Security".

Now this is not a guarantee that things would occur in our day exactly as it did in Jeremiah's day but based on this, as far as I am concerned, the chances are greater than not, that religious leaders of our day are the ones that will be making that cry. Time, of course, will tell for sure if that is the case.

[tim2k]

This was my impression.. could be way wrong:

1st phase:

-Cry of peace and security (I thought by the world governments)

-Sudden destruction instantly upon "man of lawlessness" or Christendom as the "most reprehensible part of Babylon" (she being "mother of harlots" with daughter harlots (all other world religions) under her) {so "they" who call is different from "them" who are destroyed (I think)}

-Encroachment of destructive force on the "chosen ones", appearing to almost destroy them, but...

-Days are cut short (by Jehovah's intervention, probably just as unexplainable as the 66 C.E. retreat of Roman armies)

-we are only directly affected by this stage, stage 2 and 3 or the great tribulation upon "the world"

2nd phase:

-figurative "flee to the mountains", not to geographical location, but to "Jehovah's mountain-like organization" probably by taking

firm stand for Jehovah's sovereignty

-Commercial and Political systems still up and running

-relative calmed down period may set in

-some period of time elapses, don't know how long, but not "excessively long"

-signs in sun and moon and stars/physical phenomenon

3rd phase:

-Armageddon

-divine protection/Jehovah is our Refuge

[janthonyg]

Rev 17:3 "And he carried me away in [the power of the] spirit into a wilderness. And I caught sight of a woman sitting upon a scarlet-colored wild beast that was full of blasphemous names and that had seven heads and ten horns."

Rev 17:6 "And I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. Well, on catching sight of her I wondered with great wonderment. 7 And so the angel said to me: “Why is it you wondered? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the wild beast that is carrying her and that has the seven heads and the ten horns: 8 The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction.

Years ago, when the predecessor to the U.N., the League of Nations, failed, the slave, based on Revelations 17:8 quoted above, explained in advance that that beast would indeed ascend out of the abyss. Today, we know that that is exactly what occurred, thanks to Jehovah's slave feeding us. The beast of this prophecy is the U.N., and it will brutally murder the harlot.

[leannsmarie]

Tim,

That was my understanding of the phases of the GT as well, (with the exception of who 'they' are that give the cry of 'Peace and Security')

based on scripture and what has been published by the Slave class.

[sianrose]

This question of mine looks confusing.......what I'm asking is "who" is doing the pronouncment of "Peace and security!" ? Paragraph 14 says that it "is here mentioned as being outstanding just before the sudden destruction of those making the cry." And then goes on to say in the same paragraph, "it will have to be more pronounced than any previous declarations by world leaders." So is it the religions making the pronouncment or the world leaders, as it says that sudden destruction comes to "those making the cry?"

I see what you are saying Karen...I do not know...

I also think if they are saying Peace and Security and then turn on religion...I ask myself why if they think they have peace and security... what is the reason they are turning on religion...

btw

time sequence from my notes...last Sunday public talk

1) Peace and Security...1 Thessalonians 5:3.

2) World politics and UN turn on and destroy false religion...Revelation 17:16

3)Political elements turn on Jehovah's people...which leads to Armageddon...Ezekiel 38 18-20 : Daniel 2:44,45

4)Satan taken out...abyssed ...Revelation 20:1-3

5)Paradise...Revelation 21 :3,4

6)Resurrection...John 5:28,29

7)1000 year reign...Jesus hands back to Jehovah...1 Corinthians 15; 24-28

8).Satan let loose...final test...Satan and all his followers destroyed...everlasting life for all who pass...Revelation 20:7,8

[ksg55]

Karen, This is what I think based on scripture (although the Slave has not indicated so that I am aware of.)

We read in the Reference Bible in 1 Thess 5:3 :

Whenever it is that they are saying: “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman; and they will by no means escape.

In that verse, you will see that there is a reference to Jeremiah 8:9. Perhaps this may give us some idea who 'they' are.

But to get a better sense of what is being stated I will include vs 8-12 below:

8 “‘How can YOU men say: “We are wise, and the law of Jehovah is with us”? Surely, now, the false stylus of the secretaries has worked in sheer falsehood. 9 The wise ones have become ashamed. They have become terrified and will be caught. Look! They have rejected the very word of Jehovah, and what wisdom do they have? 10 Therefore I shall give their wives to other men, their fields to those taking possession; for, from the least one even to the greatest one, each one is making unjust gain; from the prophet even to the priest, each one is acting falsely. 11 And they try to heal the breakdown of the daughter of my people lightly, saying: “There is peace! There is peace!” when there is no peace. 12 Did they feel shame because they had done even what was detestable? For one thing, they positively could not feel ashamed; for another thing, they did not know even how to feel humiliated.. . .

Who are they then?

Verse 10 says from the prophet even to the priest.

It would seem to indicate that it was the religious element in Jeremiah's day that was claiming that there was, or would be "Peace and Security".

Now this is not a guarantee that things would occur in our day exactly as it did in Jeremiah's day but based on this, as far as I am concerned, the chances are greater than not, that religious leaders of our day are the ones that will be making that cry. Time, of course, will tell for sure if that is the case.

Thankyou Leann, I appreciate your thoughts. I have been sharing that very Scripture in Jeremiah w/others for awhile now.....and hadn't noticed the cross reference to 1 Thes. 5:3......that does make sense to me. And it is quite possible that the escalating concerns in the Middle East, and right now, in Libya, but also Iran, w/the just passed "no fly zone" in Libya by the UN.....maybe the conditions in the Middle East will look more "peaceful" in the days ahead. I certainly could see religious leaders, in particular, in Christendom, pronounce "Peace and security!" With that, then sudden destruction would come to BTG. Well, the important thing is, however it happens, we know that there will be a pronouncment of peace and security and the nations w/the UN destroying BTG. So much seems to be coming to a head, in so many ways, our concentration needs to be on our meetings, the ministry, and staying close to Jehovah and his organization. :readbible:

[ksg55]

Rev 17:3 "And he carried me away in [the power of the] spirit into a wilderness. And I caught sight of a woman sitting upon a scarlet-colored wild beast that was full of blasphemous names and that had seven heads and ten horns."

Rev 17:6 "And I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. Well, on catching sight of her I wondered with great wonderment. 7 And so the angel said to me: “Why is it you wondered? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the wild beast that is carrying her and that has the seven heads and the ten horns: 8 The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction.

Years ago, when the predecessor to the U.N., the League of Nations, failed, the slave, based on Revelations 17:8 quoted above, explained in advance that that beast would indeed ascend out of the abyss. Today, we know that that is exactly what occurred, thanks to Jehovah's slave feeding us. The beast of this prophecy is the U.N., and it will brutally murder the harlot.

Thankyou Jan, I appreciate you sharing that. Yes, in the FDS feeds us well, spiritually. In our Revelation book, Chapter 34, par. 3,4, speaking of the "John class" as watchful and under angelic direction (par 2) it states:

par3) "From September 18-20, 1942, at the height of WWII, Jehovah's Witnesses in the United States held their New World Theocratic Assembly. The key city, Cleveland, Ohio, was tied in by telephone with more than 50 other convention cities, for a peak attendance of 129,699. Where wartime conditions permitted, other conventions repeated the program around the world. At the time, many of Jehovah's people expected that the war would escalate into God's war of Armageddon; hence the title of the public talk, "Peace--Can It Last?," aroused much curiosity. How could the new president of the Watch Tower Society, N. H. Knorr, presume to talk about peace when the very opposite seemed to be in store for the nations? The reason was that the John class was paying 'more than the usual attention' to God's prophetic Word.--Hebrews 2:1; 2 Peter 1:19"

par 4) What light did the talk "Peace--Can It Last?" throw on the prophecy? Clearly identifying the scarlet-colored wild beast of Revelation 17:3 as the League of Nations, President Knorr went on to discuss its stormy career on the basis of the angel's following words to John: "The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction."--Revelation 17:8a"

par 5) (describes those nations in the League of Nations when in Sept. 1939 the Nazi dictator of Germany launched WWII) "Having failed to keep peace in the world, the League of Nations virtually plunged into an abyss of inactivity.By 1942 it had become a has-been. Neither before this nor at some later date--but right on time---did Jehovah interpret to his people the full depth of meaning of the vision! At the New World Theocratic Assembly, President Knorr could declare, in line with the prophecy, that "the wild beast....is not." He then asked the question, "will the League remain in the pit? Quoting Revelation 17:8, he answered: "The association of worldly nations will rise again." That is just how it proved to be--in vindication of Jehovah's prophetic Word!"

I also found Brother Knorr's words remarkable too, "The association of worldly nations will rise again." He did not say, "The League of Nations," as when it came back, its name had changed to "the United Nations." Again quite accurate phrasing at this most important assembly held in Cleveland, Ohio in 1942. How truly blessed we are. :readbible:

[ksg55]

This question of mine looks confusing.......what I'm asking is "who" is doing the pronouncment of "Peace and security!" ? Paragraph 14 says that it "is here mentioned as being outstanding just before the sudden destruction of those making the cry." And then goes on to say in the same paragraph, "it will have to be more pronounced than any previous declarations by world leaders." So is it the religions making the pronouncment or the world leaders, as it says that sudden destruction comes to "those making the cry?"

I see what you are saying Karen...I do not know...

I also think if they are saying Peace and Security and then turn on religion...I ask myself why if they think they have peace and security... what is the reason they are turning on religion...

btw

time sequence from my notes...last Sunday public talk

1) Peace and Security...1 Thessalonians 5:3.

2) World politics and UN turn on and destroy false religion...Revelation 17:16

3)Political elements turn on Jehovah's people...which leads to Armageddon...Ezekiel 38 18-20 : Daniel 2:44,45

4)Satan taken out...abyssed ...Revelation 20:1-3

5)Paradise...Revelation 21 :3,4

6)Resurrection...John 5:28,29

7)1000 year reign...Jesus hands back to Jehovah...1 Corinthians 15; 24-28

8).Satan let loose...final test...Satan and all his followers destroyed...everlasting life for all who pass...Revelation 20:7,8

Thanks again Sian. We too had a recent talk on the great tribulation, with the outline you have shared. We know these things are soon take place, we won't know just how, but when we see these things start to occur, then we are told to raise ourselves erect, as our deliverance is near. So, I appreciate the spiritual food we've been given. And just like the disciples were curious as to "when these things" are to occur, we too are curious. Jesus telling us to "keep on the watch" is important, as we don't want to become drowsy, and thinking like those in the world, that the end is not yet. Some things we will know, when we see it. Then I will have my answer on who proclaims peace and security and what that in fact means.

[bookworm]

This question of mine looks confusing.......what I'm asking is "who" is doing the pronouncment of "Peace and security!" ? Paragraph 14 says that it "is here mentioned as being outstanding just before the sudden destruction of those making the cry." And then goes on to say in the same paragraph, "it will have to be more pronounced than any previous declarations by world leaders." So is it the religions making the pronouncment or the world leaders, as it says that sudden destruction comes to "those making the cry?"

I see what you are saying Karen...I do not know...

I also think if they are saying Peace and Security and then turn on religion...I ask myself why if they think they have peace and security... what is the reason they are turning on religion...

btw

time sequence from my notes...last Sunday public talk

1) Peace and Security...1 Thessalonians 5:3.

2) World politics and UN turn on and destroy false religion...Revelation 17:16

3)Political elements turn on Jehovah's people...which leads to Armageddon...Ezekiel 38 18-20 : Daniel 2:44,45

4)Satan taken out...abyssed ...Revelation 20:1-3

5)Paradise...Revelation 21 :3,4

6)Resurrection...John 5:28,29

7)1000 year reign...Jesus hands back to Jehovah...1 Corinthians 15; 24-28

8).Satan let loose...final test...Satan and all his followers destroyed...everlasting life for all who pass...Revelation 20:7,8

Thanks again Sian. We too had a recent talk on the great tribulation, with the outline you have shared. We know these things are soon take place, we won't know just how, but when we see these things start to occur, then we are told to raise ourselves erect, as our deliverance is near. So, I appreciate the spiritual food we've been given. And just like the disciples were curious as to "when these things" are to occur, we too are curious. Jesus telling us to "keep on the watch" is important, as we don't want to become drowsy, and thinking like those in the world, that the end is not yet. Some things we will know, when we see it. Then I will have my answer on who proclaims peace and security and what that in fact means.

We know the events to take place, we don't know for certain their exact order, perhaps, at least in the case of the fall of Babylon the Great and the cry of peace and security, but we will know after they occur!

[the author]

Hi Sian,

I actually give that public talk myself... and yes, you are spot on with the chain of events (that's more or less straight out of the outline.) And again, it must be said that the U.N. will be the organisation used by Jehovah to turn on false religion. It's logical if you think about it. Things can only be achieved if individual countries come together to work as a united whole. Countries working individually would never have the strength to dissolve religion in another country, except their own. And as we've seen in the past, religion being crushed in one country/few countries had no influence on the world's religions in general (I'm talking Russia and the communist bloc 1918-1992.) No, it must be a concerted effort with all countries working in harmony, and in the absence of any other worldwide organisation, it can only be the U.N.

Hope this helps