Houston Demands Pastors Turn Over Sermons

[Nobody]

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/10/14/city-houston-demands-pastors-turn-over-sermons/?intcmp=trending

 

Interesting

[trottigy]

 

The city of Houston has issued subpoenas demanding a group of pastors turn over any sermons dealing with homosexuality, gender identity or Annise Parker, the city’s first openly lesbian mayor. And those ministers who fail to comply could be held in contempt of court.

 

“The city’s subpoena of sermons and other pastoral communications is both needless and unprecedented,” Alliance Defending Freedom attorney Christina Holcomb said in a statement. “The city council and its attorneys are engaging in an inquisition designed to stifle any critique of its actions.”

 

ADF, a nationally-known law firm specializing in religious liberty cases, is representing five Houston pastors. They filed a motion in Harris County court to stop the subpoenas arguing they are “overbroad, unduly burdensome, harassing, and vexatious.” 

 

What is interesting, I just gave talk #3 this last Sunday "A Godly View of Sex and Marriage"

 

This is from the outline:

 

 

“Fornication” in Bible can include homosexuality; God warns against it too 

 

Degraded practice of homosexuality in Sodom and Gomorrah caused “cry of complaint” (Ge 18:20; 19:23, 24)

 

Because of ‘very heavy sin,’ God destroyed the cities

 

Bible plainly states that “men who lie with men” cannot enter his Kingdom (1Co 6:9, 10)

 

We should be thankful that God gives us his view so that we can act wisely

 

If one has shared in fornication, can readjust thinking and stop, as did others who became Christians (1Co 6:11)

[trottigy]

And if they want to know our international view - they can go to the jw.org site - http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/bible-about-homosexuality/#?insight[search_id]=d4c24d97-6b04-4787-bd72-708577dc470f&insight[search_result_index]=0

[rbrown1205]

uh-oh....I wonder if they want student talks too.  I have this week's #2 talk!

[trottigy]

What does the Bible say about homosexuality?

 

http://m.wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989268#h=12:0-15:0

 

 

Rom. 1:24-27: “God, in keeping with the desires of their hearts, gave them up to uncleanness, that their bodies might be dishonored among them . . . God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error.”

1 Tim. 1:9-11: “Law is promulgated, not for a righteous man, but for persons lawless and unruly, ungodly and sinners, . . . fornicators, men who lie with males, . . . and whatever other thing is in opposition to the healthful teaching according to the glorious good news of the happy God.” (Compare Leviticus 20:13.)

Jude 7: “Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them, after they . . . [had] gone out after flesh for unnatural use, are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.” (The name Sodom has become the basis for the word “sodomy,” which usually designates a homosexual practice. Compare Genesis 19:4, 5, 24, 25.)

 

Disgraceful & OBSCENE, eh?

Edited October 15, 2014 by trottigy

[palmhat]

What the Bible says is clear & famous words echo in my ears.

"Houston, we have a problem!"

[Shawnster]

I'm curious about the constitutionality of such a request. To me, it sounds illegal. Governmental authorities don't have the right to inspect sermons. If they want to know, they can attend church and find out.

[palmhat]

I'm curious about the constitutionality of such a request. To me, it sounds illegal. Governmental authorities don't have the right to inspect sermons. If they want to know, they can attend church and find out.

That is the nature of the problem.

1. It is currently unconstitutional. 

2. When the momentum of public opinion swings to effect a change in perceived constitutionality, the wild beast will be turning on religion, both false & true. This in turn could lead to the GT which in turn will lead to their very real problem by way of Armageddon. yes?  

 

The words echo.

Edited October 16, 2014 by palmhat

[RaymondG]

When I saw the lead words for the header to this thread I thought it was about a 'Houston' in Australia...

A well-known television etc 'pastor' named Brian Houston has been in hot water here because of his father's paedophelia. His father was a part of their church at the time.

Didn't Peter, Paul and Mary sing something about 'When will they ever learn?'

[Brother Arellano]

Hopefully in reading some of the outlines she will come to know Jehovah. I see no problem in sharing the good news in any way. It's not often that we are demanded by someone to witness to them. 

[trottigy]

This is something I find interesting about Fox news. They don't just report the news, they put their spin on it and tell people what to do. That isn't journalism ( writing characterized by a direct presentation of facts or description of events without an attempt at interpretation.)

 

Here is what I am talking about from that story: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/10/14/city-houston-demands-pastors-turn-over-sermons/?intcmp=trending

 

This is the moment I wrote about in my book, "God Bless America". I predicted that the government would one day try to silence American pastors. I warned that under the guise of “tolerance and diversity” elected officials would attempt to deconstruct religious liberty. 

 

Sadly, that day arrived sooner than even I expected.

 

Tony Perkins is absolutely right. Now is the time for pastors and people of faith to take a stand.  We must rise up and reject this despicable strong-arm attack on religious liberty. We cannot allow ministers to be intimidated by government thugs.

Edited October 16, 2014 by trottigy

[Stavro]

Here's a less biased Houston Chronicle article that reveals a few important details omitted by Fox.

 

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/politics/houston/article/City-subpoenas-sermons-in-ERO-court-case-5822800.php

 

To that end, Feldman said the pastors made their sermons relevant to the case by using the pulpit to do political organizing. That included encouraging congregation members to sign petitions and help gather signatures for equal rights ordinance foes, who largely take issue with the rights extended to gay and transgender residents.

 

Feldman pointed to a training video that surfaced this summer showing Welch, of the Houston Area Pastor Council, explaining the rules signature gatherers needed to follow during a church presentation. With aPowerPoint presentation behind him, Welch tells the audience the city's stringent repeal referendum process "makes it more challenging for us" to qualify for the ballot.

 

Ordinance supporters said the video proved the signature gatherers were aware of the rules but flouted them anyway.

 

"If someone is speaking from the pulpit and it's political speech, then it's not going to be protected," Feldman said.

 

So it's not about homsexuality or homosexual rights per-se, it's about churches attempting to illegally meddle in politics. Also of note is that none of the pastors are being charged at all, their sermons are only requested as evidence in a case about the non-discrimination law itself.

 

Whatever happens, this is just another reminder to closely guard our Christian neutrality.

[Greg Dent]

That is the point right there. The City went after them for remarks the Ministers made about her personally during their speeches and sermons. Its only hinted at in the first article posted. But that is the crux of the problem. 

 

They knew right well that they were committing slander on the podium. Now they are crying foul when they are called to task on it.

[rocket]

This is one reason why a True Christian would stay neutral to politics and politicians. One is no better or worse than another.

[tucker]

We have a new twist in our territory in northern Colorado. A small town in our territory has issued a directive that all door to door activity must be registered with the town.  All participants must register and wear a permit and identification badge. The GB issued the directive to us to ignore the order, work quickly in our activity and leave without protest if a law officer asks us for the ID and registration form. We live in exciting times! Several families in our congregation live in this town, including our Watchtower conductor and several of our pioneers. Brings to mind Ps. 94:20 about framing trouble by decree.

[trottigy]

We have a new twist in our territory in northern Colorado. A small town in our territory has issued a directive that all door to door activity must be registered with the town.  All participants must register and wear a permit and identification badge. The GB issued the directive to us to ignore the order, work quickly in our activity and leave without protest if a law officer asks us for the ID and registration form. We live in exciting times! Several families in our congregation live in this town, including our Watchtower conductor and several of our pioneers. Brings to mind Ps. 94:20 about framing trouble by decree.

 

Didn't we win this at the supreme court already (See Stratton Ohio - http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/18/national/18SOLI.html )

 

I love this from that case:

 

 

 

"It is offensive, not only to the values protected by the First Amendment, but to the very notion of a free society," Justice Stevens said, "that in the context of everyday public discourse a citizen must first inform the government of her desire to speak to her neighbors and then obtain a permit to do so."

Edited October 16, 2014 by trottigy

[timpin]

We have a new twist in our territory in northern Colorado. A small town in our territory has issued a directive that all door to door activity must be registered with the town.  All participants must register and wear a permit and identification badge. The GB issued the directive to us to ignore the order, work quickly in our activity and leave without protest if a law officer asks us for the ID and registration form. We live in exciting times! Several families in our congregation live in this town, including our Watchtower conductor and several of our pioneers. Brings to mind Ps. 94:20 about framing trouble by decree.

 

See also 1-8-2003 Awake!

[trottigy]

We have a new twist in our territory in northern Colorado. A small town in our territory has issued a directive that all door to door activity must be registered with the town.  All participants must register and wear a permit and identification badge. The GB issued the directive to us to ignore the order, work quickly in our activity and leave without protest if a law officer asks us for the ID and registration form. We live in exciting times! Several families in our congregation live in this town, including our Watchtower conductor and several of our pioneers. Brings to mind Ps. 94:20 about framing trouble by decree.

 

Hey, maybe they can order a whole bunch of those Jan 8, 2003 Awake!s and do a mass distribution of them  

 

 

http://m.wol.jw.org/en/wol/lv/r1/lp-e/0/18924

Edited October 16, 2014 by trottigy

[shali]

Yes, this reminds me of what happened in a small town in Ohio, making the same mandate - must have permits and must get them each day they preach. The Branch Legal Department fought and won, the city had to back down.

[rocket]

Didn't we win this at the supreme court already (See Stratton Ohio - http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/18/national/18SOLI.html )

 

I love this from that case:

 

Your link to the NY Times is broken or at least when I tried it.

 

 

Page Not Found

We’re sorry, we seem to have lost this page, but we don’t want to lose you.

• Check the Archives. Most articles remain online for seven days after publication. Articles back to 1851 are available through The New York Times Article Archive. 1851 – present.
• Report the broken link. If you clicked on a headline or other link on NYTimes.com, you canreport the missing page.

 

I found it by putting Stratton Ohio in the search box

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/18/national/18SOLI.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar

Edited October 17, 2014 by lynn

[Trina]

This is also interesting because they churches tax exemption is on the basis of staying neutral in political matters however, there have been many churches that preach political opinions and they have for a couple years been questioning their tax exempt status because of have political opinions/stance. The IRS is looking into the situation and I'm sure this situation in Texas will bring further attention to this situation in the US.

How is Babylon The Great be attacked? God's Kingdom Rules book, page 223 paragraph 6

The nations of the UN will plunder the prostitute's wealth, devour her, and completely burn her.

http://newsok.com/irs-agrees-to-probe-churches-preaching-politics-says-settlement-to-atheist-lawsuit/article/5120852

[Greg Dent]

Ya that could get interesting to say the least. Being we already have won many battles in the supreme court over this it should be easy to squash this one. Its most likely just some bigot in the town fathers that thinks he can throw his weight around. 

[Nobody]

Ya that could get interesting to say the least. Being we already have won many battles in the supreme court over this it should be easy to squash this one. Its most likely just some bigot in the town fathers that thinks he can throw his weight around. 

Correction, should read:

Ya that could get interesting to say the least. Being we already have won many battles in the supreme court over this it should be easy to squash this one. Its most likely just some bigot in the town fathers that thinks SHE can throw his weight around.

 

But does that make it the town Mothers. Or she may be the dominant female in her relationship with her "wife". Does that continue to make it Fathers or is it still improper? I get so confused when it comes to political correctness.

[Greg Dent]

No they are known has town fathers. I don't knit pick like that. Political correctness has gone way to far already. There is no room for that snobbish garbage in Jehovah's organization. 

 

There is no distinction in any other language. If its a group of mixed people male and female in Spanish it is called in the masculine form. Even if the group is all female it is still in the masculine form.

 

It use to be the same in English until the political correctness movement got started. Even Jehovah's word refers to Israel as sons of Israel. Even though they had many Daughters.

[Greg Dent]

Where did Political Correctness come from? Satans demonic system. So we should not use it. I am sorry if I came across harsh. I have a really bad head ache and its driving me around the bend today. Had to leave the meeting early. Hate that more.