McDonald's...

[Luezette]

I don't know how many of you have heard or read about the unfortunate melee in a McDonald's restaurant here in Brooklyn, NY. It was the same restaurant right down the street from the Brooklyn Assembly Hall on Flatbush Avenue, some of the friends frequent it during lunch break. It was six girls who badly beat up a 15 yr. old girl, gang related (but of course). Some have already been apprehended.

Anyway, it was said that among the youths who watched and did nothing, some even video taping it, there were adults too who stood there and did nothing to help that poor girl who was being savagely beatened and stomped.

Question: In view of Proverbs 26:17, what would you have done if you were there? Me? Honestly I don't know. I mean, I know what the above scripture says, yet, we just learned how reasonable Jehovah is right? Then too while Jesus was on earth and the woman with that horrible flow of blood was out with the crowd which she knew she had no business being there according to the Mosaic Law, and Jesus knew it too yet he didn't get on her but healed and blessed her...that was being reasonable.

This might be one of those conscience matter type of thing. I don't know.

(I'm not good with copying the address of news sites, sooo you can visit google and type in McDonald's melee).

[kejedo]

Dear Luezette, I just looked up the news story. It is heartbreaking to see what is going on in this world. Having taught teenagers for decades, I would have tried to intervene and also tried to get staff and adults to help. I thought of the scripture that says it is unwise to get between two dogs fighting, but here it was not two girls fighting. One girl was clearly being attacked. I, for one, could not have stood by. I'm sure if our brothers or sisters were in the restaurant, they would not have just stood there. I have had a number of gang members in my classes. IN fact the leader of the local Bloods just got busted and he graduated with me two years ago. (I'm in upstate) My school supervisor refused to allow me to post a no hat policy when there were gang elements in my classroom (contained classroom for all 5 high school subjects, so no other teacher in contact, and my ESL class has had gang members from Latin Kings and others that were bused in from drug rehab). It is not a situation at the moment.  So sorry for the victim. If it were my daughter, I would home school her or have her take a correspondence course or other form of high school completion.

Edited March 14, 2015 by kejedo

[Mykyl]

We are told not to get involved in things that are not directly related to us. Call the Authorities.

 

First example I found was from one of the childrens books but I have seen it applied to adults as well. If I find the adult themed info I will post it later. Like you said its hard to stay out of it but do you really think you would last any longer against a crowd of rabid idiots?

 

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102003039

 

What should we do if we see other people fighting? Should we take sides with one or the other?— The Bible tells us what is right. Turn to Proverbs chapter 26, verse 17. It says: “As one grabbing hold of the ears of a dog is anyone passing by that is becoming furious at the quarrel that is not his.”

What would happen if you grabbed hold of the ears of a dog? It would hurt the dog, and he would snap at you, wouldn’t he? The more the dog tried to get loose, the harder you would have to hold on to the ears and the more excited the dog would get. If you let him go, he would probably bite you hard. But can you just stand there and hold his ears forever?—

Well, that is the kind of trouble that we would be in if we got mixed up in a fight between other people. We may not know who started the fight or why they are fighting. One person may be getting beaten up, but perhaps he stole something from the other one. If we helped him, we would be helping a thief. That would not be good, would it?

Edited March 14, 2015 by Mykyl

[Luezette]

I'm just sick of what happened to that 15yr. old. True, it's said that she too was a part of the gang and now she's bragging that she's "famous" yet it's said that she looks as if she was in a boxing ring. As a matter of fact, even though she's presently not cooperating with the authorities, she collapsed at home and had to be taken to the hospital.

Like i said I don't know what I would have done. At least that's how I'm feeling as I'm typing this. But like Pauline said, if the friends were there at that moment, I strongly doubt they would have just stood there and gawked as the rest were. I can't get it out of my head that Jehovah is reasonable. Yes, the friends would probably have called the authorities or maybe even tried to help that girl or both.

Yes, we're living in a sick, demonic world. And it's going to get much worse before the end. And the reason we humans are so appalled at all that is happening is because we're made in God's image, with having Jehovah's qualities...justice. Wanting to help someone whether we should or not is based on another quality...love. And as far as Jehovah being reasonable is concerned, this is not saying that we should ignore his Word. He's not and won't that's for sure!

I guess it's just a concience thing.

[cricket246]

I probably would have walked away from where it happened and called the police. Too bad someone inside didn't have pepper spray.

[cricket246]

Maybe if a group of people bigger than their group had all stood up at the same time and asked them to stop it would have frightened them enough to leave after they saw they were outnumbered... Standing by and doing nothing wouldn't have been an option for me....

[Dustparticle]

 

Edited March 14, 2015 by Dustparticle

[Mykyl]

I'm just sick of what happened to that 15yr. old.

Oh I know. Regardless of how they live their lives the thought of anyone being hurt in any way is heart wrenching. Especially as most people go down those paths because that is all they know.

 

We can take comfort in the fact that people from all kinds of backgrounds can and do change their lives... if people like us are there to tell them.

[niall]

If this involved gang members then the best thing to do is leave, and call police once you are out of view. If any of the Brothers or Sisters got involved in any way it could bring gang reprisals on them, or even the rest of the Bethel family.

Gang members have lots of time on their hands, long memories, and no conscience. You might be OK with getting a punch in the face for your efforts to help the young lady. But, how would you feel if, a week later, an innocent Bethelite was attacked as payback of your getting involved?

The best (though not necessarily the easiest) way to deal with it is to just not get involved.

Proverbs 22:3 — The shrewd one sees the danger and conceals himself, But the inexperienced keep right on going and suffer the consequences.

Leave and call the Police discreetly. If you feel you must do something, pray to Jehovah. Once it's all over, offer first aid to any who accept it.

Chapter 5 in the "God's Love" book states:

“We are ambassadors substituting for Christ,” wrote the apostle Paul. “As substitutes for Christ, we beg: ‘Become reconciled to God.’”*—2 Corinthians 5:20.

Because ambassadors represent a foreign sovereign or state, they do not interfere in the internal affairs of the countries where they serve; they remain neutral. Ambassadors do, however, advocate the government of the country they represent.

Gangs represent "internal affairs" as much as the legitimate governments do.

*Edited to try and fix up the quote tags.

Edited March 14, 2015 by niall

[cricket246]

I've always wondered what would a witness so if they tried to leave a situation like this and were attacked themselves...being in public actually scares me in some locations lol

[Trina]

Another question, would you fight for your brother or sister who was attacked for some reason? This is something we should get involved in, remember it says you should give your life for your brother...

[LRJW]

Some years ago my wife and I were serving in a foreign land.  After the mid-week meeting, as we were all milling about and talking, a screaming teenaged girl ran into the hall and yelled "Help!  They're killing her!"

 

So a couple of brothers and I ran to the front door and saw two men beating this poor girl on the head with something and a third person was waiting in a car nearby with the door open so that they could take off with her.  

 

We didn't even think; we 3 brothers ran forward and screamed at them to stop.  That's when I realized that the object they were beating this girl with was a gun, which was then pointed directly at my head.  To make it worse, the man was obviously drugged or drunk, because he was swaying while holding the gun on me.  The other attacker had a knife and lunged at us with it.  Thankfully, during the confrontation the girl managed to run away.  The two men then jumped in their car and took off in the opposite direction.

 

Afterwards, my wife was pretty upset that I acted without thinking.  Indeed, I was planning to physically prevent these men from hurting this girl, and I suppose I could very easily have been shot.  The elders, however, reacted in a very interesting way.  They had been in an elders' meeting when this all occurred.  They came out after, and when they were told what happened, they congratulated me and the other 2 brothers, and basically called the rest of the brothers cowards!  

 

But my point is that basically, at least in my case, it's not something I think about whether I should act or not.  I just do.  And you'd better believe if a sister or brother were attacked, I would go nuts.  And probably get myself killed.  

Edited March 16, 2015 by hansolo8004

[niall]

Another question, would you fight for your brother or sister who was attacked for some reason? This is something we should get involved in, remember it says you should give your life for your brother...

In this case you now have a justifiable vested interest in getting involved. Plus, you would also have a better understanding of the situation and whether you should get involved and, if so, to what extent you should get involved. You can make a more informed discussion.

That's different than getting involved in a situation where you have no connection with either party, and no idea of the dynamics behind the assault.

We must avoid rushing in to any situation we know little or nothing about.

[Trina]

I agree, I always feel strongly about standing up for my brothers and sisters, even when out of my comfort zone. That is what makes us united worldwide and it is important to Jehovah.

Pr 17:17 A true friend shows love at all times, And is a brother who is born for times of distress.

Joh 15:13 No one has love greater than this, that someone should surrender his life in behalf of his friends.

[Luezette]

Oh believe me when I say if one of my brothers or sisters were in danger in ANY sense, therecwould be NO thoughts as to should I or shouldn't I help. As a matter of fact, I found out a couple of young sisters didn't want to work with me because I was like watching like a hawk each and every young man. One day an older sister and I were assigned to work with two of the young sisters (teenagers). I suggested to the older sister that each of us work one on one with our chicks. No problem, and we decided to let the chicks decide which one of us hens each wanted to work with. One chick looked at me and said "I'll work with you Sister Luezette. I know I'll never hear the end of it." Lol. Such is my reputation in my congregation. I don't play with these people out there as regards Jehovah's people!

Yet, when I think of people outside the organization, I think, and take the word "think" literally as in I don't really know or not sure, but I think when we see others in trouble, life and death trouble that is, we will most likely react first. I belueve that was what happened in your congregation with the person screaming for help. You just sprung into action.

[LeslieDean]

When you jump in and help without knowing the situatiion you actually stand the chance of helping the guilty party!  What if the underdog's adrenaline jumped in and he started beating the agressor and then that is where you came in?  At a meeting once the speaker brought up an interesting point stating that many people in the world see "hero's" but what they actually see is someones reaction to the situation.  They are responding to an adrenaline rush and what they assume they see.  Many times we react/respond without thinking.  Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't.  I chased after a burglar who came out of an apartment once while taking a drapery installer to measure windows.  The tenants were gone and when I took the key and opened the door two men were rumanging through drawers.  They pushed past me and Nathan standing shocked in the doorway ==it was  obvious they were caught robbing the palce.  Nathan thrpugh himself up against the wall in the hallway and I started chasing after them yelling "Come back".  Stupid I know.  I did not think.  I was responding to my sense of right and not in a safety sense.  Nathan was very upset and said I could have got us shot.  I never thought it out.  Only responded on instinct.  What can I say?  I've been chasin' stupid all my life.  Didn't take long to catch up to crazy.

Edited March 17, 2015 by LeslieDean

[Luezette]

Well, after reading everyone's responses, I've concluded this: unless it's a family member fleshly or spiritual I'm minding my business. I mean, I really hate seeing people being beatened up but neither do I want nor need to be a victim too. As a matter of fact, today I read that somewhere else here in Brooklyn there was another incident like in McDonald's, a burger place and a man tried to help the girl and was attacked himself! All demonic!

I hate to say this but it at least seems that these teenage girls are or are becoming worse than the boys.

[Margaret]

I'm sorry but my personal view is if Jesus can give his perfect life for ALL sinners then I can at least do what Jesus and give my life not only for my brothers and sisters ...who knows if the people are our future brothers and sisters. Even if I turn on the siren on on my phone or honk the horn on my car maybe it will break the momentum of the fight.

[niall]

I've been involved in countless violent situations where things were not always as they seemed.

I once observed a group of teens watching two girls who appeared to be fighting with another girl. Both girls were on top of the other who was screaming for help.

I was not on duty or in uniform but I had to rescue this girl. I walked through the crowd of onlookers and pulled the two girls off, just enough for the other to free herself and run away. It was then that I discovered that the girl I thought I was helping had been trying to commit suicide by jumping in front of cars, and the other two girls were trying to stop her. When she broke free (with my help), she ran straight out into traffic. Tragically, my getting involved nearly cost a young girl her life.

I have quite a few stories like this as I've dealt with violence a lot. I spent eight years contracted to a local Council and working on their City Safe Project. That meant, among other things, patrolling the parks and public areas of the city at all hours, working closely with police. In the early days we patrolled on our own from 3pm until 9pm, when a second officer would start. We dealt a lot with itinerants, druggies, and drunks. I've been stabbed twice (not seriously), been kicked and punched more than I can remember, spat on, sprayed with blood, and burned (long story).

I quickly learned not to just run in. I learned to stop and asses the situation first. Every situation is different, but you should never get involved without assessing the risks first.

I've also had to put up with too many do-gooders who just have to get involved in things they know nothing about. I could relate plenty of stories, but I won't.

It's not always appropriate to get involved physically in order to help someone. There are many other ways you can help.

In his book "The Tactical Edge, Surviving High-Risk Patrol" (this used to be the main training text book for Police in the US), Charles Remsberg teaches TAPS:

Tactics 40%

Accuracy 30%

Power 20%

Speed 10%

Tactics and Accuracy (using your brain) is the most important part of any successful response to violence (70%). Power (physical intervention) and speed (rushing in) contribute least to a successful outcome.

Unfortunately, this (power and speed) is the "fight" part of the fight-or-flight response that most people experience when they face violence. But, it's the least effective strategy. Men struggle with this a bit more than women as "power and speed" are seen as macho, or tough. Men must be tough, and tough guys are strong and fast (think boxing, MMA, and any other contact sport).

Anyway, I've droned on for too long and probably over-responded with too much information.

Whatever you do, think it through and be careful. It's not about being uncaring, it's about being smart.

Let God's Kingdom Come and we will never have to face violence again.

Edited March 17, 2015 by niall

[azram]

Not to make light of the situation but Learn From the Great Teacher  said it so well...

 

*** lr chap. 19 pp. 105-106 Is It Right to Fight? ***

What should we do if we see other people fighting? Should we take sides with one or the other?— The Bible tells us what is right. Turn to Proverbs chapter 26, verse 17. It says: “As one grabbing hold of the ears of a dog is anyone passing by that is becoming furious at the quarrel that is not his.”

What would happen if you grabbed hold of the ears of a dog? It would hurt the dog, and he would snap at you, wouldn’t he? The more the dog tried to get loose, the harder you would have to hold on to the ears and the more excited the dog would get. If you let him go, he would probably bite you hard. But can you just stand there and hold his ears forever?—

Well, that is the kind of trouble that we would be in if we got mixed up in a fight between other people. We may not know who started the fight or why they are fighting. One person may be getting beaten up, but perhaps he stole something from the other one. If we helped him, we would be helping a thief. That would not be good, would it?

So, what should you do if you see a fight?— If it is at school, you can run and tell a teacher. And if it is away from school, you can call one of your parents or a policeman. Yes, even when other people want to fight, we should be peaceable.

[LRJW]

 

Not to make light of the situation but Learn From the Great Teacher  said it so well...

 

*** lr chap. 19 pp. 105-106 Is It Right to Fight? ***

What should we do if we see other people fighting? Should we take sides with one or the other?— The Bible tells us what is right. Turn to Proverbs chapter 26, verse 17. It says: “As one grabbing hold of the ears of a dog is anyone passing by that is becoming furious at the quarrel that is not his.”

What would happen if you grabbed hold of the ears of a dog? It would hurt the dog, and he would snap at you, wouldn’t he? The more the dog tried to get loose, the harder you would have to hold on to the ears and the more excited the dog would get. If you let him go, he would probably bite you hard. But can you just stand there and hold his ears forever?—

Well, that is the kind of trouble that we would be in if we got mixed up in a fight between other people. We may not know who started the fight or why they are fighting. One person may be getting beaten up, but perhaps he stole something from the other one. If we helped him, we would be helping a thief. That would not be good, would it?

So, what should you do if you see a fight?— If it is at school, you can run and tell a teacher. And if it is away from school, you can call one of your parents or a policeman. Yes, even when other people want to fight, we should be peaceable.

 

 

I agree with this in principle, but at times you can see very clearly what is happening.  For example in my case, two men would never beat a woman in the face with a gun unless they were trying to kill her or something else.  If she was a thief they had caught, etc., that still wouldn't justify practically beating her to death.

 

But in the case where things are not clear, or when they are evenly matched, etc., I hope I will stop and think and apply this direction.

[Trina]

With worldly people I stay at a distance unless it is a child involved, but when it comes to our brothers and sisters it is different, even in children. In the state I live in we have anti bullying campaigns for kids in elementary through high school and they advocate standing up to the bully for the one being bullied because it makes a difference. So we teach our children to help their friends in the truth to stand arm in arm with them if possible. Safety in numbers so the more that stand together the harder it is for someone to hurt them. So for the world I agree, but with our spiritual family we have to quick to help and support. That is how I take the scriptures personally for me some may feel too fearful to but they need to remember some day they may also need help especially as this system continues to deteriorate we need to stand up together because we will be "the object" of attack, so I practice that mind set now...but that is my feelings and I don't judge.

[shali]

I probably would of taken the non-confrontational way out and screamed "Fire" and grabbed the nearest extinquisher and used it on the group of girls.

[Sheep]

. . .

 

At a meeting once the speaker brought up an interesting point stating that many people in the world see "hero's" but what they actually see is someones reaction to the situation.  They are responding to an adrenaline rush and what they assume they see.  Many times we react/respond without thinking. . . .

 

. . .

 

. . .

. . . It was then that I discovered that the girl I thought I was helping had been trying to commit suicide by jumping in front of cars, and the other two girls were trying to stop her. When she broke free (with my help), she ran straight out into traffic. Tragically, my getting involved nearly cost a young girl her life.

. . .

 

I would have a tendency to mind my own business in a case like this too, since I don't know all the facts. What may seem obvious to onlookers may not be what really happened. I would just do what some bystanders did in that case: Call the police and let them get themselves involved in it. Let them figure out what the facts are. They've been trained for situations like that; we haven't.

 

From what I was reading in the news stories, the "victim" in this case was not cooperating with the police. There's got to be something fishy about that. And now she's glorifying herself on her Facebook page about how famous she is now. (???) It looks like even the police don't know all the facts yet.

[Allabord4Jah]

2 Tim. 3:1-5:  This is a trend that is happening more and more, especially since the act of violence can be recorded and played for the eyes of the world.  This was on CBS News (since that girl fight McD'S happened) listen to the epidemic of fights going on with the "girls".   The number was shocking. 

 

(by the way, I tested this site, on my own email, so it shouldn't direct you to some other place)

 

Teen Girl-on-Girl Fighting Goes Online - CBS News