Nomads

[Raven]

On 3/14/2019 at 3:40 AM, Bek said:

 

Kyrgyz yak riders are at a festival of nomads in Saudi Arabia  

 

 

Interesting! Normally people don't like nomads, and don't want them around, so it's nice to see a festival for nomads.

[Bek]

6 hours ago, Bjern said:

Interesting! Normally people don't like nomads, and don't want them around, so it's nice to see a festival for nomads.

I did not know that. I know they were hated by settled empires like Rome, Russia and China in the past, because nomads raided and robbed them constantly. 

 

But today there are very few monadic people are left. Development and urbanisation have had a huge impact on their lifestyles. 

 

Arabs, Central Asians and Berbers all used to be nomads, but not anymore. They still try to keep some of their nomadic traditions though. 

 

 

[Raven]

43 minutes ago, Bek said:

I did not know that. I know they were hated by settled empires like Rome, Russia and China in the past, because nomads raided and robbed them constantly. 

 

But today there are very few monadic people are left. Development and urbanisation have had a huge impact on their lifestyles. 

 

Arabs, Central Asians and Berbers all used to be nomads, but not anymore. They still try to keep some of their nomadic traditions though. 

 

 

Yeah, nomadism is largely disappearing now.

 

I believe much of the aversion comes from the fact that nomads tend to be seen as the outsiders when they enter a settled population, as well as that they are often different in some way to the rest (culture, appearance, language, beliefs...). Historically they were also sometimes blamed for bad things that happen, which can give them a bad reputation. I think that was the case for the San people in Africa, for instance.

[EccentricM]

10 minutes ago, Bjern said:

I believe much of the aversion comes from the fact that nomads tend to be seen as the outsiders when they enter a settled population, as well as that they are often different in some way to the rest (culture, appearance, language, beliefs...). Historically they were also sometimes blamed for bad things that happen, which can give them a bad reputation. I think that was the case for the San people in Africa, for instance.

True, it's also like "travellers" here also known as gypsies (not just including the Romani, but also of Irish decent, but are all now classed as their own ethnic minority). They live in caravans (trailers) and are always on the move. Some get a bad repuation as some of them leave a lot of mess behind, but not all of them. Some of them have been known to illegally take up residence in fields or even outdoor sports courts.

Edited March 17, 2019 by EccentricM

[Raven]

13 minutes ago, EccentricM said:

True, it's also like "travellers" here also known as gypsies (not just including the Romani, but also of Irish decent, but are all now classed as their own ethnic minority). They live in caravans (trailers) and are always on the move. Some get a bad repuation as some of them leave a lot of mess behind, but not all of them. Some of them have been known to illegally take up residence in fields or even outdoor sports courts.

The Romani are a notable example of this. You'll probably find that whenever people talk about them, there is bound to be something negative is said about the ethnic group.

~ "Gypsies" is considered a derogatory term now, and many Romani people won't identify with it. Granted, it's not the worst term out there, but it does represent misconception, and is used in a derogatory manner by some. You'll likely notice that the FDS doesn't use that term, but uses more appropriate terms when making articles and videos about them.

[EccentricM]

1 minute ago, Bjern said:

Gypsies" is considered a derogatory term now, and many Romani people won't identify with it.

I've heard this before, but only from people in the US. Typically in the UK the term is still used, and they often refer themselves to as such, we even have t.v shows such as "my big fat gypsy wedding".

[EccentricM]

 @Bjern You might find this interesting.  I figure the terms used here are a bit different as it's not used to refer just to Romani people, and is why when we use the term it's interchangable with "traveler".  It touches on the subject here and the UK terms.

 

https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-gypsies-and-vs-travellers/

 

Quote

Big Fat Gypsy Weddings is a program that is being aired on Chanel 4 in UK that has caught the attraction of the common people towards gypsies and travelers.

 

There are many groups of people in the world that are known for being on the move literally. These wandering people have different ethnicities, but one thing that unites them is their tendency to remain travelers all their lives. Gypsy and Romani are two most popular groups of people that belong to this category. However, there are also travelers to further complicate matters. This article attempts to highlight the differences between gypsies and travelers.

 

Gypsy is a term that is applied to diverse groups of people who belong to wandering races or tribes.

Scottish and Irish Travelers are tribes of nomadic people that contain within themselves different ethnicities with different traditions, customs, and even languages

 

While gypsy is a generic term used to refer to wandering tribes that contain many ethnicities within themselves, travelers happen to be nomadic people belonging to Ireland and Scotland. Gypsy is a rather loose term that includes terms such as travelers, tinkers, and even Romani.

 

So it explains how, "Gypsy" is used all over the world, but here is used to refer to the "Travelers" we have. Hence why there is most likely a difference between the US use of the word, and why also it's considered derogatory over there. Here the Travelers for a long time have adopted the phrase Gypsy as an identifying name (whether they be the Irish, Scot or Romani travelers).

Edited March 17, 2019 by EccentricM

[Bek]

I think we are talking about different things here. Gypsies and the like are wonderers and as such they do not stay in one place. Often they are traveling musicians and beggars. They do not have a country of their own. 

 

Nomads were formerly warriors and cattle breeders. They had their own powerful empires and civilisations. They stayed within a certain territory, only moving when new pastures were needed. 

 

We have Gypsies too and nobody likes them or considers them nomads. They are considered as dirty scroungers. 

 

Mongols, the Huns, Arabs, Berbers, the Turks and many others were nomads. 

 

That's why I was surprised when you said people dislike nomads. 

 

I have just looked up a wiki article on nomadism. It says:

 

"Sometimes also described as "nomadic" are the various itinerant populations who move about in densely populated areas living not on natural resources, but by offering services (craft or trade) to the resident population."

 

It must be an American thing to  lump  Gypsies and other itinerant people with true nomads sometimes. 

 

If you tell nomads or former nomads that they are like Gypsies and so on, they will be insulted. It is just for your info and cultural enlightenment. 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2019 by Bek

[Raven]

3 hours ago, EccentricM said:

I've heard this before, but only from people in the US. Typically in the UK the term is still used, and they often refer themselves to as such, we even have t.v shows such as "my big fat gypsy wedding".

It's becoming more and more unpopular in mainland Europe as well as other parts of the world. Some still don't mind the term and use it themselves, while others find it very offencive and will even get upset about it.

 

3 hours ago, EccentricM said:

 @Bjern You might find this interesting.  I figure the terms used here are a bit different as it's not used to refer just to Romani people, and is why when we use the term it's interchangable with "traveler".  It touches on the subject here and the UK terms.

 

https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-gypsies-and-vs-travellers/

 

 

So it explains how, "Gypsy" is used all over the world, but here is used to refer to the "Travelers" we have. Hence why there is most likely a difference between the US use of the word, and why also it's considered derogatory over there. Here the Travelers for a long time have adopted the phrase Gypsy as an identifying name (whether they be the Irish, Scot or Romani travelers).

The term "Gypsies" has an interesting origin. When Europeans first encountered the Romani, some had the assumption that they were from Egypt, being that they had dark skin, spoke an unrecognizable language, and wore golden jewelry. They began to call them "Gyptians" which over time changed to "Gypsies" (Now in the UK the term can apply to another unrelated ethnic group, and in America it has largely become more associated with fantasy stories than real life). In reality of course, the Romani had originally come from the region where N.W. India and Pakistan is (in fact, many still live there, but they are called the Banjara there). That in itself is irrelevant ~ it doesn't matter which part of the world someone is from, so if that was the only thing about the term, then that would seem fine. Sadly it is often used with a strong negative connotation, so it's any wonder why the Romani want to reject this foreign invented term now, besides the fact that misconceptions have plagued them for hundreds of years, so a title that is an obvious misconception has come to represent all the misconceptions that they have had to live with.

 

I don't trust that linked article...It states that the Romani arrived in Europe in the 16th Century, however there is evidence that they had begun to arrive as early as the late 13th Century, and many were transported into Europe as slaves. They likely first arrived in England a little before the 16th Century, for Henry the VIII persecuted them during his rule, and he ruled from 1509 to 1547.

[Tortuga]

A new topic has been created for you.

Carry on....

Edited March 17, 2019 by Tortuga

[Alexa]

Nomads 

[Raven]

13 hours ago, Bek said:

We have Gypsies too and nobody likes them or considers them nomads. They are considered as dirty scroungers. 

Thank goodness Jehovah loves them, and is not prejudice.

 

13 hours ago, Bek said:

I think we are talking about different things here. Gypsies and the like are wonderers and as such they do not stay in one place. Often they are traveling musicians and beggars. They do not have a country of their own. 

 

Nomads were formerly warriors and cattle breeders. They had their own powerful empires and civilisations. They stayed within a certain territory, only moving when new pastures were needed. 

Historically, some Romani people were mercenaries, which covers warriors. They also commonly specialized in animals, especially horses, though maybe not so much with cattle. They came from the Hindu civilization. Each tribe and each clan have their own traveling territory, though persecution has often been a reason for them to leave their usual territory.

 

13 hours ago, Bek said:

Mongols, the Huns, Arabs, Berbers, the Turks and many others were nomads. 

 

That's why I was surprised when you said people dislike nomads. 

All of those groups are/were disliked, though not always for the same reasons.

 

13 hours ago, Bek said:

I have just looked up a wiki article on nomadism. It says:

 

"Sometimes also described as "nomadic" are the various itinerant populations who move about in densely populated areas living not on natural resources, but by offering services (craft or trade) to the resident population."

 

It must be an American thing to  lump  Gypsies and other itinerant people with true nomads sometimes. 

That definition certainly applies to the Romani.

 

It's not an American thing, as the terminology "Gypsies" originates from Europe.

 

13 hours ago, Bek said:

If you tell nomads or former nomads that they are like Gypsies and so on, they will be insulted. It is just for your info and cultural enlightenment. 

It wouldn't surprise me if, like the Romani, other nomadic ethnic/national groups don't appreciate this term either, as it is commonly used in a derogatory manner. I prefer not to use it myself, unless explaining it.

[BenJepthah]

The Suswa ( Nomad) tablet displayed at Bethel ( in the Patterson education center ( in the library ) depicts an Egyptian hieroglyphics relief stating ( The lands of the Nomads ( Suswa) those belonging to Jehovah ). Along with the image of a man in profile. It is one of only two known instances of the name of Jehovah in Hieroglyphs. It makes one wonder if the natural human state is meant to be nomadic. 

[Bek]

I think we are getting into some negative stereotypes about ethnic groups. If you take any ethnic group or a country, there will always find something in them that neighbouring countries or the world dislikes. Such groups/countries are made up of imperfect humans and will have something negative that triggers others.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SUNRAY]

Here in the western U.S. there are people who have chosen to live in their cars, vans trucks or campers who travel to various National Parks as a group. They call themselves Nomads. They live simply and appreciate traveling and enjoying the great outdoors! On YouTube,  it is interesting to see how they have outfitted their vehicles to live off the grid. Many use solar panels on the roof of their vehicles.😉

[Katty]

On the topic of the Roma, on the second part of the Gilead Graduation, the inside story, a brother was talking about foreign language circuits in Europe, and I noticed  Roma had a lot of congregations/circuits in Europe. No matter how people in the world view them, many of them are definitely precious to Jehovah.

Of course, I can't be in discussion about nomads without mentioning that extraordinay exception to almost every rule concerning expanding civilizations:Wait for it.... The Mongols
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqcVro-3f4I

Edited March 29, 2019 by Katty