Obama Has Formally Declared War On All Religions

[ava]

The title of the article is a bit misleading, but it's an interesting read and it really shows how the US President is not a fan of religious rights.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700221522/Obama-has-formally-declared-war-on-all-religions.html

[ava]

This is an interesting part on page 2 of the article.

Obama's decision also reflects a certain view of liberalism. Classical liberalism was concerned with the freedom to hold and practice beliefs at odds with a public consensus. Modern liberalism uses the power of the state to impose liberal values on institutions it regards as backward. It is the difference between pluralism and anti-clericalism.

The administration's ultimate motivation is uncertain. Has it adopted a radical secularism out of conviction, or is it cynically appealing to radical secularists? In either case, the war on religion is now formally declared.

[trottigy]

First lets put this in perspective. This is from Deseret news - primarily a Mormon owned and operated source. Mitt Romney - the Republican candidate is Mormon. Does it strike any as not so odd that the opposition would do its best to smear each other? Not me.

Second, what did the new standard actually say -

"The HHS announced earlier this month that all employers would be required to provide full coverage for a range of preventive health services for women, including the cost of contraception. The rule exempts houses of worship like churches or synagogues, but other nonprofits with religious affiliations -- for instance, like a Catholic university -- will have to comply. Most employers will have until August 1, 2012 to meet the rule, but religiously-affiliated nonprofits will have an extra year."

So they will have to provide coverage for these things - they people who have the coverage are not required to use it. It made me think of our own organization. If the US govt required this as part of health care coverage for the Bethelites and traveling overseers - they would add it. This is not "declaring War!" by any means.

[ava]

It's all over the news, I actually was gonna copy/paste another link from CNN, but I hit the wrong one, lol.

[ava]

Here is another link from a Chicago paper, which Chicago is very democratic and very liberal. I am from there, lol.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/huntley/10468608-452/obamas-trespass-on-religious-liberty.html

[ava]

I don't think the article title was too misleading myself, a bit, but not alot. Obama is not a fan of religious people trying to put their ideals into law. He believes religion is a private matter and should stay out of government, which is one of the reasons republicans do not like him. Republicans tend to let their religious ideals affect their decisions in making laws and policies. Obama on the other hand is feels human rights are more important then religious rights. So I can see where the religious right feels this is a first step in Obama's liberal politics going after religious rights.

[bookworm]

First lets put this in perspective. This is from Deseret news - primarily a Mormon owned and operated source. Mitt Romney - the Republican candidate is Mormon. Does it strike any as not so odd that the opposition would do its best to smear each other? Not me.

This is not "declaring War!" by any means.

I tend to think that we're not quite there yet, because it has been my understanding that when that happens we are going to know it is from Jehovah, through the UN. But, when you put this together with the other things, the refusing to forgive student loans to those who are in faith based service, the forbidding of public schools to allow religious groups to rent or use them, just one thing after another, it is clear that the administration in power is not as accommodating to religion as in the past.

[trottigy]

Wanda, when was there a forbidding of using public schools for religious services?

Las Vegas has several churches that use the in-door basket ball stadiums in the high schools for their services.

In fact, our sister congregation is using one near our kingdom hall for their memorial.

As to the student loans - when did they EVER forgive student loans - and why only people of religious nature - why not all? I know President Obama is trying to get the interest rates for these loans to now increase, but I don't think congress is interested in helping anyone, but themselves.

WOW! Do we need God's Kingdom or WHAT!!!!!

What am I missing? Do you have any news articles about the above?

[bookworm]

The particular case I was referring to regarding the public schools was in New York. This is one link: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/06/nyregion/some-churches-hope-albany-will-act-to-allow-renting-school-space-to-pray.html

Here is the student loan forgiveness page from the government. Note on the second page who is NOT eligible: http://studentaid.ed.gov/students/attachments/siteresources/LoanForgivenessv1-2012.pdf

I copied and pasted from the site:

NOTE: Your employment at a non-profit organization does not qualify if your job duties are related to religious instruction, worship services,

or any form of proselytizing.

[Mei]

Hi Wanda and Jerry! I sure hope you both don’t mind if I chime in here.

A couple years ago I went back to take classes at a university. It is very obvious that a myriad of students (including international students) are “rapidly” obtaining school loans; it’s so scary that most students don’t really understand what they are getting into. In fact, there are organizations attempting to convince Congress to forgive school loans in order to “stimulate the economy and prepare for new kinds of growth for the future,” no one is talking about one obvious option—forgive the enormous debt of America’s students.” (This is b/c Washington is pumping trillions of dollars into banks and corporations to make student loans liquid and whole but strongly suggest Congress relieve the burden on its youngest citizens who are being crushed by huge tuition costs and stupendous debt loads. Getting a student loan is so incredibly easy. [No, I actually paid cash for my own class tuition, books, etc.]

That stated and according to an Oct. 2011 article by Yahoo News, “at nearly $1 trillion, federal and private student loans now exceed US credit-card debt, posing a formidable repayment burden for many borrowers at a time of near-double digit unemployment.” The current Administration is pushing Congress to make attempts to allow “some 1.6 million students to cap their loan payments at 10 percent of their discretionary income starting in 2012. It also forgives the balance of student loans after 20 years of payments. [“Seems the Education Department has to back him up”.] Current law allows students to limit loan payments to 15 percent of income, forgiving debt after 25 years of payments, though few students are aware of this option.” Please see: http://news.yahoo.com/obamas-student-loan-debt-relief-plan-too-good-234242818.html

Regarding school auditoriums and the like not being used for religions services, there is actually a recent 2011 U.S. Supreme Court case as to whether New York City can bar religious services in its public schools. However, “[t]he U.S. Supreme Court has definitively ruled that the government cannot limit access to generally available public spaces merely because government officials disapprove of a form of expression.” And according to a senior counsel for the Arizona-based Alliance Defense Fund who comments on the ruling said, “[e]qual access means equal access, and that includes religious services.” Please see:

http://www.nytimes.com/schoolbook/2011/09/28/group-asks-supreme-court-to-allow-religious-services-in-schools/

[Perhaps this N.Y. case will take precedence??]

Wanda, whether this Current Administration is attempting to apply utilitarianism (for the greater good) is questionable at best! The current abortion mandate that “was” being forced upon the Catholic Church is being ostensibly offered by the President to give the religious members “free options” when in reality it is an obscure attempt at controlling population. If fact, “over-population” is a major problem for all nations and is becoming a serious economic burden. The right to an abortion and the right to commit suicide by professional assistance is becoming law in many nations, especially in Europe. [The Netherlands laws are a fine example.]

Last year the Congregation I attend also used a high school auditorium for our Memorial Services.

Blessing to all of you and may Jehovah’s Kingdom come soon!!

[trottigy]

The particular case I was referring to regarding the public schools was in New York. This is one link: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/06/nyregion/some-churches-hope-albany-will-act-to-allow-renting-school-space-to-pray.html

Here is the student loan forgiveness page from the government. Note on the second page who is NOT eligible: http://studentaid.ed.gov/students/attachments/siteresources/LoanForgivenessv1-2012.pdf

I copied and pasted from the site:

NOTE: Your employment at a non-profit organization does not qualify if your job duties are related to religious instruction, worship services,

or any form of proselytizing.

Wow - from a congressional act in 2007 during President George W. Bush's years - interesting. I don't remember anyone making a big deal out of this then. I thought he was very big into religions getting helped out - apparently not. Why do they make a big deal out of the health care provision now?

As to the New York ruling, I found the linked article interesting -

In December, the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear the congregation’s final appeal — and now about 160 religious congregations have until Feb. 12 to stop using schools as houses of worship.

This is not a total banishment of religion from public schools, mind you. Far from it. Students and the public can still use school buildings for a wide assortment of religious activities, including prayer and religious study.

Church groups can still hold religious instruction classes. This will not change.

But holding worship services Sunday after Sunday, year after year, sends the message to students and the community at large that the government favors a church.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/schools-place-religious-services-article-1.1016788#ixzz1mIDTrVpF

[Mei]

Hello again, Wanda! Seems New York City is adamant about barring religious entites from using public school facilities from religious worship. http://www.alliancedefensefund.org/News/PRDetail/4781

The final ruling in Bronx Household of Faith v. Board of Education of the City of New York could have far-reaching ramifications for churches and religious organizations throughout the nation that wish to meet in public schools on the same terms and conditions as other community groups.

There is no doubt an attack on religious rights by governmental entities.

[Mei]

Jerry - Much of the New Health Care Bill has been gutted by Congress, including by Mr. Obama himself. The reason there is an incredible array of opposition to the New Health Care Bill is because it has little to do with health care. It's all about "taxation."

[trottigy]

I am just happy they can't say - "oh that is a pre-existing condition - you are not covered."

Only in the New world will we have real health Care!!

[bookworm]

That is what I found myself wondering, why now is religion being taken on in so many different ways. It doesn't seem to make sense, politically, for Obama to confront the Catholic church, they were very supportive of his healthcare program and other things. Why is he doing this, is he not worried about their votes?

[Mei]

Interesting you state that, Jerry. The only claim to fame for this New Healthcare Bill is that pre-existing conditions are covered and children can stay on their parents’ insurance until the age of 26. The preexisting clause under the New Plan is not what most people think. There are specific requirements for both.

Furthermore, the election of a preexisting condition demand (placed in a high-risk pool) does not make it affordable. http://hpm.org/en/Surveys/Johns_Hopkins_Bloomberg_School_of__Publ._H_-_USA/16/Pre-existing_condition_coverage_post-health_reform.html

The New Healthcare Plan under this current Administration mandates that everyone buy insurance. The cost for everyone will go up each year contemporaneously with cost of living increases. If a person cannot afford to purchase insurance under this plan, he/she can expect to pay a penalty. If the various process of collection efforts on the "penalties" are not successful thru the IRS incarceration is necessary. That is the reason 5,000 IRS agents were hired for the implementation of this New Healthcare Bill.

If it was such a great plan, all Members of Congress would not have voted against it as their own Healthcare plan. Also and as of 2011, 27/28 States joined lawsuits against the New Healthcare Bill. Those concern with personal and intimate health care for their families, children, their own parents and themselves should look deeper and very carefully into this New Healthcare Plan so that one knows what to expect when it is implemented in 2014 (if it is not repealed before then).

[Mei]

I couldn't revise my prior comments, so just needed to make a correction to include: "possible incarceration." [since the essence of a tax is the payment of money under duress created by politicians.]

Yes! A new healthcare plan that will come about in Jehovah's new system won't get here soon enough.