Russia Moves to Declare the Bible "Extremist"

[Bluebell]

15:05

Lawyer Bogdanov declares a petition to attach letters to the case materials sent by representatives of interested persons (religious organizations of Jehovah's Witnesses) to the expert organization headed by Kryukova. Both letters were returned to the sender due to the fact that the expert organization is not at the specified address. In this regard, the rights of interested persons were violated for the possible withdrawal of specific experts, as well as for the presence in the examination. The court opens envelopes and satisfies the petition for the attachment of documents along with the envelopes.

15:15

Lawyer Bogdanov asks to attach the Russian Biblical Society's response to his lawyer's request. In the answer of this respected organization it is noted that there is no standard translation of the Bible. All Russian Bibles are translations. Many of the Bibles are translations from translations, including the Church Slavonic Bible, translated from the Greek translation. Translation from a translation is normal. The criterion for assessing the quality of translation of the Bible is only the correspondence of the translation to the source text, taking into account the difficulties associated with structural differences in languages. The prosecutor's office objects to the introduction of this answer. The court decides to attach.

15:20

Lawyer Bogdanov asks to attach to the case materials the court decision and appellate ruling passed in the case of recognizing the Quran in the translation of Kuliev extremist material. The court of first instance recognized this Koran as extremist, however this decision was canceled in appeal. The lawyer draws attention to an approach that, judging by the text of the appellate definition, was used to find out whether the text is a Qur'an. The court conducted a simple comparison of the surahs and verses of the Quran in Kuliev's translation with other translations of the Koran in Russian. Since their semantic identity was established, the court decided that the text translated by Kuliev is the Qur'an, and therefore can not be recognized as extremist material, since the law stipulates that the Bible, the Koran, Tanakh and Ganjour are protected by special immunity against anti-extremist legislation. Bogdanov says that the same approach can be used in this case with reference to the Bible published by Jehovah's Witnesses. The court decides to refuse to attach these judicial acts to the case.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Samira

[Bluebell]

I hope they come to a verdict today.....we are at our convention tomorrow...

[Tortuga]

25 minutes ago, Samira said:

I hope they come to a verdict today.....we are at our convention tomorrow...

Thank you very much for taking the time to post this information.  A brother in our congregation was not able to get his device to translate jw-russia so I gave him a link to this thread so he could read the English translation. 

[Bluebell]

3:30 pm

The court announced a 15-minute technical break.

15:50

The meeting resumes. To present Dyubin draws the attention of the court to the fact that in the examination of Kryukova not less than 11 times it is indicated that it is not "Holy Scripture - Translation of a New World" that is being researched, but a publication called "New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures", and precisely about this English Kryukov's edition says that it is not a Bible. Representative Dyubin stresses that such a publication was not transmitted to experts by the court. This fact testifies to the irresistible depravity of Kryukova's expertise.

16:03

Representative Dyubin submits a petition for the appointment of a second examination in this case. Arguing, Dyubin cites the position of the Leningrad Regional Court, which several months ago abolished the Vyborg City Court decision on one of the cases concerning the literature of Jehovah's Witnesses, on the grounds that it is inadmissible to involve experts who, prior to the court's decision, have already expressed their position On the subject of the claim. In that case, it was precisely the examination of Kryukova. In addition, the Leningrad Regional Court noted that the expert Kryukova does not have a linguistic education, and therefore can not perform a linguistic examination.

16:10

Continuing the argument in favor of the appointment of a second examination, Dyubin cites the position of the Presidium of the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation, formulated in 2011, that an expert should be challenged if he or the head of the institution where the expert works already expressed their position On the subject of the trial. Dyubin draws attention to the fact that the statement of claim in this case, which was filed by the prosecutor's office, is based on the "Information" prepared by the expert Kryukova.

16:15

The Plenum of the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation ruled that it is inadmissible to ask the expert questions that the court must answer, namely, those aimed at legal assessment. For example, you can not ask the expert questions about whether a particular publication is extremist. And before Kryukova these questions were raised.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Samira

[Bluebell]

16:25

Representative Dyubin summarizes and lists all the identified shortcomings of the expertise of Kryukova, which were addressed during the court session. He asks for the appointment of a repeated judicial complex religious studies and linguistic expertise. A number of institutions are able and ready to carry out such an examination. For example, the federal budget institution the Federal Center for Forensic Expertise under the Ministry of Justice of Russia (in Moscow). The court specifies how the costs of such an examination can be distributed? Dyubin explains that the organization that he represents (the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses in Finland) is ready to take the re-examination costs.

[Bluebell]

16:40

Lawyer Bogdanov and Novakov support the application for a re-examination and adduce additional arguments in favor of the lack of expertise of Kryukova.

16:45

The Prosecutor's Office requests that the application for re-examination be denied.

16:47

Having agreed on the spot, the court determined - to deny the appointment of a second examination.

[Bluebell]

16:50

Lawyer Bogdanov declares a petition for interrogation of experts Kryukova, Kotelnikov and Tarasov in the court session. In their work there are nebulae that require clarification. The lawyers list a number of specific issues that they would like to ask the experts.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Samira

[Hannah]

Thank you Samira for all your hard work 

[cricket246]

Novakov - I guess if they aren't gonna play fair he wants out of the entire thing eh? I can't say I blame him, it sounds like they're trying to muddy Novakov's expertise while the girl is the one who took her info from Wikipedia... just sad...

[Bluebell]

17:03

The court decided on the spot to deny the summons and interrogation of experts in the court session.

17:08

Representative Novakov unexpectedly declares a petition to leave the case in question without consideration! He explains that the Leningrad-Finland transport prosecutor's office filed a lawsuit claiming that the Bible was extremist, went beyond its powers, because, according to the order of the Prosecutor General's Office of 2009 on the organization of prosecutor's supervision in cases of extremism, such claims can be brought by the prosecutor's office no lower than the level of the prosecutor's offices of the Russian regions Federation. The Leningrad-Finland transport prosecutor's office is equal to the district or city prosecutor's office.

17:15

Prosecutor Zhukov objects, he says that the order of the Prosecutor General's Office lost its force on July 10, 2017. The Leningrad-Finland transport prosecutor's office was obliged to react. The court is removed to the advisory room.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Samira

[Bluebell]

5:30 pm

The court withdraws from the advisory room and refuses to satisfy the petition for leaving the claim without consideration.

17:37

The court passes to the stage of debate. Lawyer Bogdanov asks the court for additional time to prepare for the judicial debate.

17:43

The court refuses to provide additional time to prepare for the debate. Announce a 1-hour break, after which the debate will begin.

[Tortuga]

10 minutes ago, Samira said:

Announce a 1-hour break, after which the debate will begin.

....they have to feed the kangaroos....

[Bluebell]

18:55

The court session is resumed. Speech in the debate begins prosecutor Zhukov.

19:05

Prosecutor Zhukov explains that extremism refers to acts involving violence or incitement to it. When the publications of Jehovah's Witnesses were detained at the border, the examination showed that they could contain extremism. Considering the special social danger of such an act as extremism, the prosecutor's office appealed to the court with a claim to recognize these materials as extremist. Prosecutor Zhukov especially notes that this is not a trial of religious beliefs. The lawsuit does not state that anyone's religious views are bad or wrong. Recognizing the right of everyone to freedom of religion, the law of Russia prohibits the propaganda of the inferiority of citizens on the principle of attitude to religion.

19:10

Zhukov emphasizes that the experts (Kryukova, Kotelnikov, Tarasov) gave the submitted materials an assessment of a general nature. We studied various text techniques. For example, they paid attention to deducing the "image of the enemy". In addition, experts have identified calls for a refusal to serve in the army. As for the experts in the field of linguistics and religious studies interrogated in the process, they were given only a short time to get acquainted with the case materials, unlike the experts, whose conclusion is the basis of the claim.

19:17

Prosecutor Anna Smalkova briefly says that she supports the lawsuit.

Speech in the debate begins representative Dyubin. He reminds that according to Russian legislation the Bible can not be recognized as extremist. Turning to the text of the Bible, Dyubin draws attention to the fact that the Bible bears the message of good. One by one, Dyubin opens the texts of the Bible, which teach diametrically opposite to what is considered extremism. For example, Proverbs 21: 3, which says that the observance of justice is more pleasing to God than the sacrifice offered. That is, the Bible teaches law-abiding, but not extremism. Isaiah 2: 4: The Bible teaches peace, calling for the swords to be turned into tools for cultivating the earth. John 13:34: The Bible teaches us to love our neighbor, but not to hate, that is, the teaching of the Bible is incompatible with extremism. Romans 13: 1: The Bible teaches obedience to secular authorities, and not to breaking the law. 2 Timothy 3:16: The Bible is an inspired book that represents God's conversion to humanity. And the prosecutor wants to prohibit this book in Russia!

19:30

Dyubin reminds the prosecutor that the law of Russia provides an alternative to military service for people whose faith does not allow them to take up arms. And Jehovah's Witnesses carry this civil service, and this service is almost twice as long as the military one, and in addition, not in warm rooms, but in medical institutions. What kind of extremism can there be if the conscience does not allow believers to take up arms and they are even ready to endure adversity for the sake of their convictions.

19:40

The speech in the debate begins with the lawyer Bogdanov. His first words: "The Word of God is not enclosed in chains." Bogdanov says that these words entered in the Bible from 2 Timothy 2: 9 are written in the time of persecutions unfolding in the I century against Christians. Bogdanov calls the main historical milestones associated with persecution of the Bible and those who read and disseminated it. The last historic milestone was in 2015, when the Leningrad-Finland transport prosecutor came out with a lawsuit to ban one of the Bible editions in Russia. "Only now the Bible can be included not in the medieval Index of forbidden books," says Bogdanov, "but in the Federal list of extremist materials!"

19:45

Analyzing the expertise of Kryukova, Bogdanov points out that the expert extends the effect of federal legislation on the relationship between God and people, while laws should regulate the relationship between people and people.

19:50

Bogdanov recalls that in court hearings, how many asked representatives of the prosecutor's office to clearly say what exactly they see as extremism in the text, and have not received an answer. Every time the prosecutor was not able to name something concrete. The prosecutor answered that he was not an expert, that he relied on the experts' conclusions. However, the availability of expertise - this is not an excuse in the trial to turn off your own mind. Bogdanov recalls that under the current legislation, no evidence for the court should have a pre-established strength. How can you rely on experts and most do not understand what exactly is extremism?

[Bluebell]

déjà vu

[cricket246]

Love that question - how can they accuse JW of extremism if their experts don't even know what it really is... hmm...

[Foxes53]

It's good that scriptures are being used even if the court chooses to ignore them.

[Bluebell]

19:58

Amazing argument Kryukova in favor of the fact that "Translation of the New World" is not supposed to be the Bible, - the difference in the markup of the text from the Synodal translation. The interrogated specialists explained that in the ancient manuscripts of the Bible there was no markup at all.

20:05

Concluding the speech in the debate, Bogdanov said: "The recognition of the extremist Bible can inflict irreparable reputational damage to the Russian Federation as a democratic state."

20:06

Speech in the debate begins the representative Novakov. He draws the court's attention to a number of moral lessons and suggests that the court analyze whether this book calls for extremism. Or she calls for something else. Most of the quoted fragments contain appeals expressed in the form of verbs in the imperative mood. "Do not stop loving your enemies and praying for those who are after you." "Whatever you want people to do with you, so do you with them." "Love your God and love your neighbor as yourself." "Put your sword into the scabbard." "Love each other". Let every soul obey the authorities. " "Do not let any rotten word come out of your mouth." "Let everyone love his wife. Wives should deeply respect their husbands. " "Children, be obedient. Fathers, do not annoy your children. " "Do not forget to do good and share, Behave honestly. " All these texts testify to the fact that the Bible does not call for extremist acts, but on the contrary, for love and good.

20:15

Novakov recalls that the prosecutor's office questioned all the evidence that led their opponents. Representatives of the prosecutor's office doubted even that the Synodal edition of the Bible in the materials of the case is indeed the Bible. Or when Doctor of Historical Sciences Odintsov confirmed the historical fact that Galileo Galileo had a conflict with the Catholic Church, the prosecutor's office questioned his knowledge. Continuing this reasoning, Novakov reads the Bible texts from Job 26: 5 and Isaiah 40:22, where the Bible speaks of the spherical form of the earth and the fact that the planet in space "hangs on nothing." "I will not be surprised," Novakov says, "if the prosecutor's office questioned these facts as well!"

20:29

Analyzing the techniques by which Kryukova and her staff "find" extremism in printed materials, Novakov shows the court the Civil Procedure Code. "If you send Kryukova for examination this book," the representative said, "she will also find out with extremism in her methods. She can state that there are signs of superiority of the Civil Procedure Code over the Administrative or Arbitration Code! "

20:40

Referring to the materials of the case, Novakov says that Kryukov, Tarasov and Kotelnikov, analyzing (in another case) youth songs about vampires, etc., containing terrible bloody texts, comes to the conclusion that there is nothing wrong with them. In the opinion of these experts, the fascination with horrors is a normal phenomenon in certain subcultures. Novakov poses a logical question: "So why do these experts have such different approaches? Why is the teaching of the Bible an extremism, and the songs about vampires are normal? "

20:45

Nowakow passes to the final block of his speech. He focuses on the thesis of the expert Kryukova that the "Translation of the New World" can not be considered a Bible, because it consistently uses the name of Jehovah God in all places where the original text contains the sacred four-fingered.

20:50

With the help of biblical texts, Novakov shows that God has a name. For example, he quotes from Proverbs 30: 4: "Who ascended to heaven and descended? Who collected the wind in his hand? Who tied the water in his clothes? Who has set all the boundaries of the earth? What is his name? And what is the name of his son? Do you know?"

20:55

Novakov brought with him a Bible in Hebrew, the original language. He shows the name of God in Hebrew and says that this name in the "Translation of the New World" is consistently transmitted as Jehovah, while the Synodal translation arbitrarily uses that "Jehovah", then "Lord."

9pm

Novakov quotes a fragment from Psalm 109: 3 in the Synodal translation, where, because of the substitution of the name of God, the title "Lord" is formed by the nebula: "The Lord said to my Lord ..." However, "Translating the New World", correctly conveying the name of God, makes it clear: Jehovah turned To Christ.

21:02

Analyzing Kryukova's arguments that the "Translation of the New World" was allegedly altered in such a way that the texts disproved the doctrine of the Trinity (that God and Christ are one and the same person), Novakov reads the text from John 8:18 In the Synodal translation. He draws attention to the fact that this text will be especially clear to lawyers and the court, since it refers to the Israeli law, in which there was a provision that only the testimony of two witnesses could be valid in court. In this connection, Jesus says in this text: "I testify of myself, and the Father who sent me beareth witness of me." If God and Christ were one person, as formulated in the doctrine of the Trinity, then it would be only one witness, which under Israeli law would not be enough. But Christ says just the same, That God and Christ are two witnesses, which means that their testimony has legal force. This text indicates that the doctrine of the Trinity is denied by the Bible in the Synodal translation, and not by the "Translation of the New World."

21:10

The parties exchange replicas.

21:20

The court shall be removed to the deliberation room for adjudicating the merits.

[cricket246]

The court shall be removed to the deliberation room for adjudicating the merits.

 

Are they actually making a decision today?!

[Bluebell]

1 minute ago, cricket246 said:

The court shall be removed to the deliberation room for adjudicating the merits.

 

Are they actually making a decision today?!

I think so.......

[Bluebell]

Because the Bible NWT had Jehovah's name in it; they say it is extremist.

They have taken the name of the Bible's author out of it and replaced his name with Lord. How will Jehovah act now?

Their day of judgement is upon them.  Jehovah hates His name being used in the wrong way.

 

They are saying because the name Jehovah is in the NWT then this is a fake Bible and their Bible that excludes His name is a correct translation

Edited August 17, 2017 by Samira

[Bluebell]

The sanctification of His name is brought into question by them.

[Bluebell]

17th July they brought out the decision to ban us in Russia and today 17th  Aug they will ban the bible....

[Bluebell]

21:50

Dmitry Y. Grishin, judge of the Vyborg City Court, candidate of legal science, former head of the department of civil law of the Leningrad University. A.S. Pushkin, announces the decision: the application of the Leningrad-Finland transport prosecutor - to satisfy. To recognize the "Holy Scripture - Translation of the New World" as extremist material, to recognize as extremist materials the brochure "The Bible and its main theme", "Science instead of the Bible?" And "How to improve health. 5 simple rules. " Confiscate the parties of the said literature. The decision of the court did not come into force, it can be appealed in a 30-day period.

 

Bible is banned !!!

[Omoyeme]

After a 30-minute so-called "deliberation" the judge returned with the decision to ban God's Holy Word in Russia?...What a surprise!

Well, at least the judge gets to keep his job. 

No matter, this is going precisely the way Jehovah is allowing this to go!  Though his enemies have tried, they will not silence His glorious name!

 

Your word endures forever.

And your sayings are oh so deep

The good news you declare is a breath of fresh air

And your sayings I just want to keep -- all of my days.

 

- - - - - 

 

The green grass dries up, the blossom withers, but the word of our God endures forever.”--Isaiah 40:8

Edited August 17, 2017 by Omo_Yeme

[cricket246]

Wow, so when are they gonna start banning all of those other Bibles, Tolstoy's works and all of those other books that use His name?