JSmith

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I'm having problems with Watchtower Library (the old DVD version) failing to update on my PC with Windows. I've had it installed on my computer for years and have been receiving the downloaded updates on a regular basis up until a few months ago. Now when it tries to update, it downloads the update just fine and asks "Do you want to apply the update now?", but when I say yes, the installation box progress bar remains at 0% for several minutes until a warning box comes up saying: "Failed to update Watchtower Library. Please make sure that there are no other instances of Watchtower Library running, then try again." I have gone into the Task Manager and made sure Watchtower Library is not open. I've completely uninstalled it from my computer and reinstalled from the download on the JW.ORG website - same problem. I then uninstalled that and reinstalled from the old DVD I had, but it has the same problem. I've also gone under "Help" and tried to manually create and apply an update package - same thing. It downloads the package fine but fails to update. Any ideas what the problem could be? It seems strange that even if I completely uninstall it from the computer that it is still having this problem. It won't update anything past 2017.

I don't know. This is kind of what I was talking about. Modern society has created divisions and then pitted them against one another. Today because of "womens lib" and feminism, people see a division between men and women and "us vs them" in a way that I dont know people in ancient times saw it. The different roles men and women played had more to do with physical ability than thinking women were simply not capable of doing it. It was more a sensible division of labor rather than holding women back. It became that way later on of course, but I dont know that is how its always been. I would also point out that while Jehovah inspired the idea, he allowed a man to write it down in his own words. So a man from that time period came up with the term.

In the world, when one group gains wealth, status, prestige, etc, its often at the expense of others. Not so under Jehovahs rulership! We shouldn't view Jehovah's recognition of the critical role our sisters play in telling the Good News as a swipe at the men. Jehovah values your efforts and wants you to know it. What a kind God we serve!

I think the WT article we studied on neutrality a few months back was very timely. Presidential campaigns are always nasty but when the candidates are as ridiculous as this year its easy to be AGAINST one of them even if youre not FOR the other one. But thats not neutral either.

Nuclear weapons today primarily exist as a threat and deterrant. Back during the early days of the cold war the will was there to use them and if the right situation had come up, I think they would have. But once the stockpile got to the point of Mutually Assured Destruction, the will to be the one that started a war that would end with the destruction of your own country greatly diminished. Russia and the US make shows of force with their nukes but you have to think something really egregious would have to happen to actually use them. But as someone said above, maybe they get to the brink and then snap out of it and decide to work together to prevent it from happening again.

"I do not observe the pagan celebration of Saturnalia" always worked for me.

If I knew a company that made sausage was mistreating animals, I would stop eating sausage from THAT COMAPANY. I wouldnt stop eating sausage altogether. It wouldnt make eating any sausage immoral. Likewise if I knew a circus from a particular company was known for allowing their animals to be mistreated, I wouldnt go to circuses by THAT COMPANY. But that doesnt mean I swear off all circuses. However, all of your questions have intimated that ALL circuses are immoral and should be sworn off BECAUSE they are a circus. I disagree with some of the reasonings you've given for why that is. I dont feel that everything that radical animal rights activists view as abuse is viewed as abuse in Jehovahs eyes. But this is my own personal opinion. Everyone should follow their own conscience in the matter. No ones life is any less rich by not going to the circus.

I dont think anyone disagrees that abusing any animal is wrong. What I think is in question is what constitutes abuse in Jehovahs eyes? Just because an animal has one behavior in the wild and another when in the keeping of humans does not automatically constitute abuse. Dogs are pack animals when left on their own. So is its owner abusing them if they have only 1 dog? Feral dogs like to kill and eat meat. Is the owner being abusive if they feed their pet dry dog food? Feral dogs like to run free over a territory. Are owners that cage their pet so they can come with them on trips abusive? You could ask similar questions regarding pigs or horses. A pig that gets out of its pin goes feral remarkably quickly and even undergoes a physical and tempermental transformation. Does that mean we are abusing it by keeping it in a pin? Wild mustangs travel in highly organized hierarchal groups (there is a wild mustang preserve not far from home. Wild mustangs are VERY different from a tame horse) so is it abusive for people to keep only one or two horses and ride them?! The list can go on and on. Wild elephants behave as you mention. However, many elephants in India and SE Asia have been tamed and trained to work for people for centuries. They live in very close proximity to their human "family", sometimes in very tight quarters. Most circuses Ive been to, the elephants are only caged while traveling (again, like dogs), and let out when they arrive at their destination. Many animal rights organizations have declared that any animal that is forced out of its "natural" state is being abused. I just dont agree. Just because an animal has a certain behavior in the wild does not make all other situations they find thenselves in because of humans abusive. Many animals can live perfectly happy, contented lives in the company of humans very different than what they would live in the wild. That doesnt mean that abuse doesnt happen. Of course it does and some circuses in the past have had very bad track records of this. I personally would avoid supporting those. But just because some do doesnt make the concept immoral. And just because an animals behavior is different in captivity than it is in the wild does not automatically signal abuse. This is all just my opinion of course. Anyone whose conscience struggled with these issues probably should not attend. Im just pointing out some alternate reasonings since you did ask.

The question really comes down to not our own personal view, but Jehovahs. Human views can range from one extreme to another. In clothing some go to one extreme of being too revealing, while others, especially in middle eastern countries, go to the opposite extreme of covering every inch of a womans head and body. Humans have warped a balanced and moderate view in both directions. Just because Jehovah rejects the immodest styles does not mean he approves of the ultra conservative. Likewise, I believe the same is true when it comes to animals. There are some who go to the extreme of abusing them in terrible conditions. There are also those at the opposite end of the spectrum that raise animals on a pedestal to the point that they are viewed as near equals to humans with the same rights. I believe this too is worldly and unbalanced thinking that is not in line with Jehovahs view. Jehovah has accepted animal sacrifices from Abel on. He approved of the killing and eating, not only of animals but even their young, such as lambs. Animals have been used as a source of labor from the beginning. The wonderful variety we enjoy among animals is due, largely, to inbreeding them. These are all things that - in varying degrees - different people might find objectionable or even offensive in modern times. Yet in all these cases Jehovah allowed or even encouraged. So the point Ive tried to make in this thread is - just because some have mistreated and abused animals in zoos or circuses (captive "domesticated" animals are sometimes abused as well) does not mean the idea of keeping and even training animals for entertainment is immoral in Jehovahs eyes.

Inbreeding is a huge taboo around the world as well asin the Bible, but Ive always wondered why Adam and Eves children (siblings) or Abraham and Sarah (half siblings) or Jacob and Leah and Rachel (1st cousins) or other close relatives could have normal offspring with seemingly no ill effect. The answer has always been "because they were closer to perfection" but why should that matter? Saw this video on youtube that I thought was interesting. Many of us carry negative recessive genes that we are completely unaware of. They are only expressed if both parents carry that recesive gene and the offspring receives it from both parents. If the offspring receives it from neither or just one, the trait is not expressed. Since close relatives share similar sets of genes there is a much higher likelihood that multiple negative recessive genes will be inherited from both parents and expressed by their children. This is what can cause the deformities, mental disabilities and illnesses that inbred children experience. It could be that since Adam and Eves children and other Bible characters were closer to perfection that they simply didnt have as many negative recessive genes to pass on. Few negative genes to pass on, few negative traits expressed in their offspring. These genes may have appeared as mutations over time the further mankind got from perfection, leading to the awareness that inbreeding produced markedly more defects.

Domesticated animals are only domesticated because they are kept and bred by humans for desirable traits. Wild pigs, sheep, cows, dogs, cats are very different from domesticated ones. Humans have transformed them by selective breeding to benefit their owners. Domesticated sheep have been bred to produce much more wool than wild sheep do, to the point they can barely walk. Lamb (baby sheep) was a favorite animal to kill and devour in Bible times. Pigs are kept solely for the purpose of killing and eating. Dog "breeds" that we all love so much are created by inbreeding. When a desirable trait is found they are bred with their siblings or even their own parents to preserve the trait. This of course leads to many physical defects. That is disturbing to many people but if you have a favorite type of dog- whether its a Pug or Yorkie or Lab, they look the way they do because they were purposely inbred. I would suggest that these things done to DOMESTIC animals could be viewed as more "abusive" than simply training a wild animal to do tricks for our entertainment. But does Jehovah condemn either if they are shown respect as his creation?

Is that mans view or Gods? Thats the question.

For a recent talk I found this calculation that if all the energy the sun emitted for just ONE SECOND could be harnessed and stored, it would care for all the energy needs of the U.S. for 9 BILLION YEARS. And its been doing this for 4+ billion years. And its just 1 in trillions of stars in our galaxy. And there are trillions of galaxies. And Jehovah used just a fraction of his power to create them. Truly Jehovah has vast dynamic energy and awe-inspiring power.

As a side point, I thoughtthis was interesting regarding the muzzling of bulls while threshing. http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000838?q=1+cor+9%3A9%2C10&p=par I had always thought of the muzzle like on a dog to prevent them from biting. Thats not a concern with a bull. Evidently the muzzle was to prevent it from eating the grain it was threshing. It wasnt that Jehovah viewed the muzzle itself as wrong but that because the bull was doing the work, he deserved a share. Thought that was interesting.

I dont necessarily agree that just because an animal is not in its "natural" habitat that its being abused. If so, everyone that owns a dog, cat or hamster is guilty of animal cruelty! I think Jehovah created animals to bring us happiness and if it werent for zoos or circuses, how many of us would ever see a lion, girraffe or rhinocerous? How many of us would really care about these animals we had only heard about or seen in pictures? I dont think training them is always a bad thing either. Horses have to be "broken" before they will let anyone ride them. Most people dont have a problem with that. Of course as was mentioned above, the scriptures make clear that as living creatures created by Jehovah we are to be kind to animals and be good caretakers of them. Abusing or neglecting them out of greed or sport shows disrespect for the creator. At the same time, animals are a resource that Jehovah placed at our disposal. He gave us animals for food and other materials. He was pleased when an animal was killed as a sacrifice to him because of what it meant from the human offering it. Donkeys and bulls were put to work carrying heavy loads to grind grain into flour. So with these thoughts in mind I dont have an issue with animals being used in entertainment or other ways that benefit humans. As long as they are not maliciously abusing or neglecting the animal and treating it with respect.