City clerk refuses to marry same-sex couples based on religious beliefs

[sadari]

Another reason true Christians do not get involved with politics!

Agree! another thing that distinguishes us from false religion. This scenario highlights the reason why we don't get involved in politics. You cannot slave for two masters.

[rbrown1205]

Another thought is, because this may be thought of as a conscience matter, if a Witness confronted with a similar matter has to make a choice, he or she could ask an elder, or two elders, to help  to do the research in the literature to consider the issues involved. Research tools abound now, but not every Witness knows how to use them.

 

It may well be that in some countries the court clerk that submits marriage licenses is considered like an office worker instead of someone in an elected office.  But that part about being elected and about swearing a special oath makes the difference.

[Trina]

Exactly! All good points. It is hard to stay focussed but it is possible when we come together to figure it out. The brothers are there just for this type of thing if we cannot decide on our own. But it is always a good reminder that we are not alone.

[Trina]

Mike Huckabee has taken up the issue, setting up a petition on his campaign website calling for Davis's release that has already drawn more than 55,000 signatures, and has called Davis's case an example of the "criminalization of Christianity in our country."

He is planning on starting a rally outside the jail. I saw him on the news tonight state that it is outrageous that she was placed in jail without bond while judges gave Jeffrey Dahmer and other serial killers a bond to get out...here goes the fighting again!!!

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/03/politics/2016-kim-davis-presidential-candidates-responses/

[Stormswift]

Seems she wanted to impose her conscience on others as well.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34145941

"After interviewing her fellow clerks, the judge said Ms Davis could go free if she allowed her deputies to grant the licences, but Davis refused."

The slippery slope here is not knowing Jehovah and his standards ... she has misplaced allegiance without the God-given wisdom

[GStorrs46]

    Since this woman lives in my "backyard" so to speak ( Kentucky versus Ohio ) I have been paying close attention to the case.

Virtually every night the local media reports on the latest aspects of it. I think this woman had shown tremendous courage de-

spite the opposition to the contrary. And I think it is shameful that the media would paint her a hypocrite from her former conduct

before she became a "Christian". And while disagreeing with her motive that she didn't want to be sent to Hell by God, are we

forgetting our own stand when the government ordered us to submit to them, whether it was with regard to our preaching, going

to war, saluting the flag, taking blood transfusions, or any number of issues like this.

    As has been expressed in this thread, I wonder if this may be the beginning of the government interfering in the rights of religious

freedom in the name of human rights. Of course it would begin with the most flagrant of those violations. But it could very easily

esculate from there. Time alone will answer that question. But we all know what we are all waiting to see, according to Bible pro-

phesy.

 

GStorrs46

[Stavro]

I think this woman had shown tremendous courage despite the opposition to the contrary.

 

Standing up for your own beliefs in the face of persecution is indeed courage.

 

Forcibly imposing your beliefs onto others against their will is not.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34145941

"After interviewing her fellow clerks, the judge said Ms Davis could go free if she allowed her deputies to grant the licences, but Davis refused."

 

If we were to compare this case to administering a blood transfusion, this woman would be the Witness doctor who sabotages the blood supply so that nobody else in the hospital can administer blood.

[GStorrs46]

While I don't wish to get into  a dispute of opinions on this, during WWII when our brothers and sisters were in the

German concentration camps they took a united stand against doing any work that was related to the war. While

that is not an exact parallel it does Illustrate the principal of taking a united stand against what we believe to be

wrong. While she may be somewhat out of line for forcing her entire office into promoting her beliefs, I can well

appreciate the difficulty of conscience she faces. Lacking the guidance of the  FDS I think she has probably done

the best she can under the circumstance. It boils down to are we to be forced to distribute a marriage licence for

gays due to government decision or do we champion living by a Bible trained conscience. Just because this person

is not a witness, where do we stand ?

 

GStorrs46

[LeslieDean]

Starvo, I want to thank you for the way you were so concise and reasonable in your replies on this topic.  I quoted you (hope you don't mind but you really made me look smart--I am sure my fleshly sister will wonder if I really said those words.  Although, I did not put them in that order you conveyed my thoughts perfectly so I went with it!   Trina also came to my rescue the last two days in answering my sister.  The help that we receive here from one another has never disappointed.  Again I thank you. 

 

I want to post here some things that my sister stated and see if you all can help me out again.  She is "very religious" but just as passive aggressive.  My mother died young (53, that's young isn't it?") and she stated many years ago that being the oldest of us three girls she felt like she should have taken over that mother role and does not like that I ventured out and found a "cooky religion".  She is very knowledgeable in a false religion type of way (if that makes sense) and she feels that she must have the last word.  Really. The. Last. Word. On everything! 

[LeslieDean]

I hope this is the way I would handle it.  If I had taken the job before I was a baptized Christian (JW) I would continue in my line of work but let the others in the office handle issuing the license.  When I answered my questions for baptism in 1997 I spoke with the three brothers and each one of them answered the same way (at different times) re: blood transfusions.  Not that it matters, but one of the brothers professed to be of the anointed.  He asked me how often giving blood was an issue in my working as a floor nurse on the orthopedic ward.  I told him I only worked two days a week and probably the situation occurred about every 3-4 months.  He pointed me in the direction of researching issues that discussed employment.  He then compared it to working in a blood bank or at a center where like the Red Cross where that is all they do--collect blood for transfusions.  He said he likened it to being a grocery store clerk and someone buying cigarettes.  It was a small part of the overall job.  He also suggested that maybe if I knew in advance that the patient were to receive blood I could ask another nurse to administer it for me and let me trade some of her duties or just trade that particular patient.  I said I could do that but I did not know how everyone would respond.  He then talked to me about our gift of freewill and even Jehovah did not force His standards on Adam and Eve.  He asked me what it would be like if I refused to give blood.  Would I be fired?  Would it cause hostility on the work area?  He then said what if I refused to do this and the patient died.  The headlines would read "Jehovah Witness Nurse refuses blood transfusion and forces her belief on others".  He said is that what you would like to see?  Well, no. 

Another thing he compared was working as a surgical nurse and assisting with abortions.  In that case there would be "just a small part of my overall job".  That has really stuck with me all these years.

 

So, I guess that is why politics are NOT a job for true Christians.  You have to know which master you are serving exclusively.

[Hammerhead]

She used all the licenses herself. That's why she isn't issuing them...j/k

[Trina]

She was released but she must not interfere with future same sex licensing. She would not say if she would comply with the terms of her release though.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/09/08/kim-davis-released-jail/71882274/

[comtemplate]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/04/us/kim-davis-same-sex-marriage.html?_r=1

 

It seems the clerk went to jail and there are protestors who are holding signs up for religious freedom... very interesting turn this has taken ... have you seen this yet?

[trottigy]

That is from Sept 3 - 9 days ago. She was released a few days ago.

[Guest newyorker2015]

Honestly, while the issue over gay marriage is the big news here...IMHO it's a distraction.  The real issue with this case is, are those trusted to uphold the laws of the land allowed to use their personal beliefs as a reason to circumvent state and federal laws?  If she is allowed to do this simply because people disagree with "gay marriage" - what's to stop others from using similarly erroneous beliefs as a basis to circumvent the laws?

 

Think about how this could affect us in more practical ways if the government allows her to continue with this quest.

 

An example I'd heard on tv was what if a devout, hardcore Muslim working at the DMV refused to renew your wife's license because it was against his deeply held religious beliefs. I might have an issue with that haha.

[Evergreen]

It doesn't surprise me that we read about such things today.  Christians were warned that in the last days such things would happen.  No matter what argument modern society puts out there, Gods standards don't change.   The world is topsy turvey with what they see as morally right or wrong.  

 

Christians will be and are being pressured for their stand to remain morally clean.    As Christians we need to maintain our faith and not give in to the views of today's 'modern' world.   The Bible describes faithful Christians who used to practice such things, but overcame them because of their love for God.  Faith is why Christians make such sacrifices  and are blessed by God for doing so.