Shooting in California

[Ahuvah]

Agreed.

[Nobody]

So in your congregation, if a Brother has a handgun, he is not going to get privileges? How do you "setup" a gun for target practice?

 

And you are not not willing to kill your "fellow man" as you watch your wife get raped? Trying to get some perspective here.

[cricket246]

If someone tries to take my purse, money etc. I will gladly throw it at them and walk away if they have a gun! But if someone has perverted intentions, my "integrity" is not just materialism. I will try to speak peacefully as much as I can, but I will defend myself even if it means screaming, biting, kicking and clawing (not that I have long fingernails lol).

I do believe a person can defend themselves without the intentions of killing someone. I myself have had pepper spray with me in field service due to crazy dogs we run into and some of the people have disturbed mentalities.... If I spray that person I am not intending to cut of their airways and kill them, I just want to disable them while I run away and inform the proper authorities.

Edited December 8, 2015 by cricket246

[Nobody]

First off I apologize for hijacking a thread.

 

But getting away from the whole gun issue, if I kill someone protecting myself or family, what difference does the way I do it matter? And how can anyone not have some preconceived idea as to how they would protect their family if.... happened?

[Ahuvah]

We shouldn't be prepared to kill anyone, in self defense the goal is to stop the attack, if that accidentally ends in a death, then that's a result, but not the desired effect. I have no desire, nor does my husband to take the life of anyone, even if they are wicked ... but if that should happen during an episode of self defense, then I know Jehovah knows my heart and knows that we had no desire to kill anyone, but to preserve our lives. 

 

In New Zealand - we don't own handguns at all, unless you are part of the gangs or underground in the community or a farmer / hunter who has a rifle, even the police here don't have them, unless it's the armed defenders in a controlled setting. 

 

FIrearms aren't even an issue. (yet). 

[Tortuga]

And you are not not willing to kill your "fellow man" as you watch your wife get raped? Trying to get some perspective here.

 

Ok, perspective.

 

I'd do what ever I would have to do to make it stop but I wouldn't be packing a gun just in case it might happen. Once I was able to make it stop, I wouldn't become the aggressor.  

[Ahuvah]

First off I apologize for hijacking a thread.

 

But getting away from the whole gun issue, if I kill someone protecting myself or family, what difference does the way I do it matter? And how can anyone not have some preconceived idea as to how they would protect their family if.... happened?

Protection isn't necessarily force. Protection is Jehovah, protection is hiding if we can, or fleeing the situation. We all have preconceived ideas on how to protect ourselves ... but you can't predict self defense ... because then it wouldn't be self defense, it would be a premeditated act.

[Nobody]

 break through, sorta, mostly!

 

Love my Brother and Sisters!

Edited December 8, 2015 by Your Brother

[Ahuvah]

I guess i'm saying don't let society and what society says is okay mold your thinking. If you were in NZ - firearms as I stated above, wouldn't even enter the realms of thinking when thinking about self defense. (unless we wanted to commit an illegal act and gain one - which means we would lose Jehovah's backing there and then).

[tekmantwo]

Brother Jerry, you can just call me Tim, Denise has her own account here. I had added her name years ago, before she joined.

I am not so sure about your statement re: not being able to hit something small, very quick like. I can, I have, and I am not particularly proficient.

Having said that, I would not keep, or use,a firearm solely for use against fellow humans. The concept of shooting someone is repulsive to me. I can't even shoot birds or lizards.

Flies, however, are another story.

As for defensive measures against an attacker, that would have to be predicated by the situation.

I would not charge into someone holding a gun on me but, I am not a small man and if needed can put up some resistance. I'll just whack 'em with my cane...

[Ahuvah]

toad?

 

(as in cane ... toad?) - sorry not a joke when you have to explain it huh?

Edited December 8, 2015 by Stormswift

[Tbs77]

I love it at our attendant meetings for CAs and RCs how brothers ask for confirmation, "if the unruly person touches me, I can defend myself, right?"

Edited December 8, 2015 by Tbs77

[tekmantwo]

toad?

(as in cane ... toad?) - sorry not a joke when you have to explain it huh?

Dunno, Rich does and he still considers them jokes...

Love ya bro. ..

Edited December 8, 2015 by tekmantwo

[Ahuvah]

Popcorn time. 

[Old]

So in your congregation, if a Brother has a handgun, he is not going to get privileges? How do you "setup" a gun for target practice?

 

And you are not not willing to kill your "fellow man" as you watch your wife get raped? Trying to get some perspective here.

I didn't say he wouldn't get privileges, but I do see it as a conflict. Being given privileges is the responsibility of the body, not a single elder.

I am researching to see if there is an opinion expressed on this organizationally.

 

Target pistol, flip up peep sight, 9 inch barrel. Not a quick draw weapon.

 

"And you are not not willing to kill your "fellow man" as you watch your wife get raped?"

 

I think your question is unrealistic.

As you watch? Sounds like you are a little late coming to a decision.

If it is as you state in your premise, it is just as likely that you would kill your wife using a handgun in that circumstance.

Are there several assailants?

A single assailant?

Do you think they would announce their intentions before they had the situation under their control?

At what point do you take the man's life in your hands?

Maybe they hold a gun to her head? or when they hold a gun to your head?

When they break in?

How do you know their intent? 

 

I would not subscribe to being prepared in advance to kill a human. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tekmantwo]

I love it at our attendant meetings for CAs and RCs how brothers ask for confirmation, "if the unruly person touches me, I can defend myself, right?"

Few years back we had our meeting for Memorial attendants, our Elder said we would just politely but firmly escort them out, 'not beat them to a pulp' while he pointedly looked at our Brother Smith. ..we had a laugh, Bro Smith said "wha..?, dunno what you're talking about "..

[Old]

I am not so sure about your statement re: not being able to hit something small, very quick like. I can, I have, and I am not particularly proficient.

 

That being so, you are a very rare bird.

I have carried a hand gun in the field on many occasions and  found it very difficult to hit any thing small quickly.

Given time to aim, definitely not during an adrenaline rush and I have had moderate success.

No way was I proficient enough to consider winging someone.

[Trina]

I don't think any one of our brothers and sisters would plan to kill someone but doing it on accident in self defense doesn't seem fair to be punished with restrictions or losses at the hall. If a person has a gun for other reasons and uses it to protect themselves without premeditated thoughts then why would it be any different from having a knife that you use for something else but decided to use it for self defense? A weapon is a weapon is a weapon. I don't think that was something Jehovah would consider premeditated so no one should think that way. Basically, thinking badly of the person right off the bat isn't quite fair.

But I know Jehovah knows and he would take care of things eventually.

Maybe I'm missing something...

[tekmantwo]

That being so, you are a very rare bird.

I have carried a hand gun in the field on many occasions and found it very difficult to hit any thing small quickly.

Given time to aim, definitely not during an adrenaline rush and I have had moderate success.

No way was I proficient enough to consider winging someone.

Rare bird?..I have been called much worse, I kinda like it!

(don't tell anyone but we used to practice qweeks draw and we could hit things thrown from behind, over our shoulder, before they hit the ground.)(we, as in my 'other' brother)..

Ps, hope the wife is better. ..send our love.

Edited December 8, 2015 by tekmantwo

[Nobody]

I didn't say he wouldn't get privileges, but I do see it as a conflict. Being given privileges is the responsibility of the body, not a single elder.

I am researching to see if there is an opinion expressed on this organizationally.

 

Old, on 07 Dec 2015 - 6:29 PM, said:

 

 

 

 

"I do have a handgun in my house."

 

We currently have a brother visiting that was a policeman. He got rid of both of his weapons, not just the carrying of them, but sold them out right. He thus made himself available for privileges.

He will attest to my statements on the use of hand guns. 

 

You stated "he got rid of his handguns, thus making himself available for privileges." It seems like a conflict? Ok for you, not so much for him. I must be missing something?

 

 

Edited December 8, 2015 by Your Brother

[Ahuvah]

I don't think any one of our brothers and sisters would plan to kill someone but doing it on accident in self defense doesn't seem fair to be punished with restrictions or losses at the hall. If a person has a gun for other reasons and uses it to protect themselves without premeditated thoughts then why would it be any different from having a knife that you use for something else but decided to use it for self defense? A weapon is a weapon is a weapon. I don't think that was something Jehovah would consider premeditated so no one should think that way. Basically, thinking badly of the person right off the bat isn't quite fair.

But I know Jehovah knows and he would take care of things eventually.

Maybe I'm missing something...

 

What would another reason for having a handgun be, other than for self defense?

 

What makes a weapon a weapon is the intent to use it as such ... a knife is not a weapon until it is used as such.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Stormswift

[Trina]

I have to say this...if you have the mindset that a brother with a handgun will not get privileges at your hall then there would hardly be any brothers doing anything in the Midwest, that's the honest truth.

[tekmantwo]

What makes a weapon a weapon is the intent to use it as such ... a knife is not a weapon until it is used as such.

Thank you. ...

[Nobody]

I didn't say he wouldn't get privileges, but I do see it as a conflict. Being given privileges is the responsibility of the body, not a single elder.

I am researching to see if there is an opinion expressed on this organizationally.

 

Target pistol, flip up peep sight, 9 inch barrel. Not a quick draw weapon.

 

 

 

 

What would another reason for having a handgun be, other than for self defense?

 

 

 Old has a gun, "just for target practice". 

[Trina]

That's not true on the knives, there are knives of all kinds, not just kitchen knives and several brothers carry pocket knives that are not for cutting steak.