How is your Kingdom Hall camera connected to Zoom?

[Korotkiy]

Hello brothers,

Despite a war in Urkaine we finally got permission for meetings in our KH.

I want to ask, how exactly in your Kingdom Halls you connect camera to Zoom?

As Usb camera (I think) is not appropriate to have 20 meters long wear - to be near a conductor..

And webcamera from audio desk can see nothing but sihluette.

 

There are different solutions (IP PTz cameras) but how exactly you direct RSTP streams to existing solution (Zoom) as it cannot see IP cameras directly?

Thank you for answer.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Friends just call me Ross

[Tronora]

In our cong they simply use a mobile phone on a stand in front of the stage. The mobile phone is connected to Zoom, but the sound from it is disconnected. The sound from stage (and out to Zoom) is channeled through the sound desk.

 

Welcome to the forum, dear brother

[Pabo]

10 hours ago, Korotkiy said:

Hello brothers,

Despite a war in Urkaine we finally got permission for meetings in our KH.

I want to ask, how exactly in your Kingdom Halls you connect camera to Zoom?

As Usb camera (I think) is not appropriate to have 20 meters long wear - to be near a conductor..

And webcamera from audio desk can see nothing but sihluette.

 

There are different solutions (IP PTz cameras) but how exactly you direct RSTP streams to existing solution (Zoom) as it cannot see IP cameras directly?

Thank you for answer.

 

At our KH, we have connected to the PTZ camera (which has NDI) to OBS software, and use from the NDI Tools 5 software a specific function called NDI Webcam to take it from OBS to Zoom.

 

There are some YouTube videos about how to do this using the above software. Also, you can use a PTZ plugin which will allow you to control the camera from OBS, which allows to you have 16 presents pre-saved and rename it to suit you description of the camera view. But use OBS Ver 27.4, the latest OBS doesn't have the updated plugins as yet. Also turn off the auto update in OBS. We got caught out when it went to Ver 28.

 

Also, you can use a network switch that has PoE to power the PTZ camera and also transmit that video feed just by using a CAT 6 cable, which makes it easier to wire up. No need for power to be connected.

 

However, there is a slight delay in visual feed when comparing it to audio (about 0.2 to 0.4 seconds) which is feed directly from the computer. But there maybe a way to delay the audio from OBS to the Zoom, but we have yet to play with that 

 

Some KH use a capture feed device that converts the PTZ camera SDI feed back into a capture device, which can be an actual peripheral in a computer tower, or by using a USB connection. I don't know much from there.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Pabo

[Karlo Esteban]

We used this webcam for our KH: https://www.obsbot.com/store/products/tiny-series?product_id=93f201efde484

And this usb cable: https://www.amazon.com/MutecPower-Active-Extension-chipsets-Booster/dp/B07MFW8RB7?pd_rd_w=7imcW&content-id=amzn1.sym.deffa092-2e99-4e9f-b814-0d71c40b24af&pf_rd_p=deffa092-2e99-4e9f-b814-0d71c40b24af&pf_rd_r=BHKEZNXRYB0G72876VPF&pd_rd_wg=JOLTI&pd_rd_r=f4624ef3-37fb-4d69-b398-8d52f01b74e7&pd_rd_i=B07MFW8RB7&ref_=pd_bap_d_grid_rp_0_1_i&th=1

It works well, just plug and play.


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[Floyd]

What the US branch recommends is a USB web cam with a 65 foot cable from Audio Acoustics. They recommend a fixed camera to see the entire stage area.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Floyd
uploaded image

[Qapla]

Yes, my understanding is that the camera is supposed to be "static", so a PTZ camera would not be of benefit due to its panning/zoom ability - only in the aspect of how it is powered and sends the signal back to the computer.

 

The camera should be installed hanging low enough that it does not overly distort people on the stage by "looking down"

 

 

[Karlo Esteban]

That set-up looks great. Our branch didn't provide us instruction on what equipment to use and left it with each congregation to decide.

But many congregations here in the Philippines used a set-up similar to the one above provided by the US branch.

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[Lee49]

3 hours ago, Qapla said:

The camera should be installed hanging low enough that it does not overly distort people on the stage by "looking down"

This is exactly correct, our camera was mounted high in the ceiling, the picture was terrible, you could not recognize the faces on stage, this went on for 6 months, the camera is now mounted on a pole coming down about 5 feet, now the picture quality is very good!

[Pabo]

When we received the recommended product list from our Branch, they had either the webcam and PTZ option. Sadly, their supplier had no longer the availability of the PTZ, so we had to source our own.

 

For our KH, a webcam is very much useless due to our stage design being very wide and but very narrow. At one side, we have the table for the sit-down demonstrations, and the CLM has the table at the other side of the stage, and the speaker is in the centre of the stage. Stand up demonstrations are some between the table for the sit-down and the main centre speaker. Thus it was much better for us to use the PTZ, as we can have presets of the various stage positions of where the part is being conducted.

 

The LDC has a new stage design for our KH, but it will be years before they ever get to our KH, as we are just a small congregation and we really don't have a strong priority compared to other KH's around us. So we only do what we can do ourselves 

[BrianAV]

Hello!

 

We use a PTZ camera mounted on the ceiling. To create the connection, we use a free, open source program called OBS studio. The RSTP stream can be added as a source. OBS Studio has a built in Virtual Camera. When you start it, the virtual camera will appear in your webcam list in Zoom.

What's very nice about this setup is that you can add the Kingdom Hall's 2nd monitor as another source in OBS Studio and transition between the two for displaying songs and images without having to use Zoom's share screen. Makes a very fast smooth transition. This is a broad answer so I'd be happy to elaborate if you have specific questions.

[Floyd]

On 12/16/2022 at 7:11 AM, Floyd said:

What the US branch recommends is a USB web cam with a 65 foot cable from Audio Acoustics. They recommend a fixed camera to see the entire stage area.

 

 

Also its not LDC approved just because AAI says its approved. Its listed in form USLDC-3122-E on jw.org.

[Korotkiy]

Thank you all answered on my question, appreciated.

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by Korotkiy

[BaconTree]

On 12/26/2022 at 12:55 PM, BrianAV said:

Hello!

 

We use a PTZ camera mounted on the ceiling. To create the connection, we use a free, open source program called OBS studio. The RSTP stream can be added as a source. OBS Studio has a built in Virtual Camera. When you start it, the virtual camera will appear in your webcam list in Zoom.

What's very nice about this setup is that you can add the Kingdom Hall's 2nd monitor as another source in OBS Studio and transition between the two for displaying songs and images without having to use Zoom's share screen. Makes a very fast smooth transition. This is a broad answer so I'd be happy to elaborate if you have specific questions.

Brian, is there any way to fix the lag between the video and audio? 

 

Our video seems to lag a solid 2 seconds behind the audio. I was wondering if there was a way to delay the audio feed to match it up a little closer.

 

Thank you for the tip on using the 2nd monitor as another source to skip the share screen. great idea!

[Fiona]

Our Cong is very poor. Moneywise and tech savy wise.
So our video camera for zoom etc is a small matchbox size Web cam mounted on a wire bracket to the ceiling of the hall.
If you get a magnifying glass on your computer screen you can ALMOST see the brothers face!

Hahah. But we can only do with what we have.


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[BrianAV]

On 1/2/2023 at 11:52 PM, BaconTree said:

Brian, is there any way to fix the lag between the video and audio? 

 

Our video seems to lag a solid 2 seconds behind the audio. I was wondering if there was a way to delay the audio feed to match it up a little closer.

 

Thank you for the tip on using the 2nd monitor as another source to skip the share screen. great idea!

 

Hi Jason,

 

Yes, there is an audio offset in OBS but 2 seconds is a long delay. Adding the NDI feed as a media source directly in OBS tends to be a resource hog because it's not an efficient encoder. So unless your machine has a fast processor and video card, there is usually lag.

We do have a pretty hefty machine but we were still having some delay issues so I recently changed the way we brought the NDI source into OBS and it has helped a bunch but it's not for the faint of heart 😆

There is a plugin called GStreamer that will funnel the NDI camera feed to OBS and it's worlds more efficient. The setup does require some extra steps that are not the most intuitive but once setup, from the user side, will operate the same as your current setup. (Hopefully, sans the delay/lag)

Are you running Windows and what kind of camera does your congregation use? I'll try to do a detailed writeup to explain the process.

[BaconTree]

On 1/4/2023 at 4:17 PM, BrianAV said:

 

Hi Jason,

 

Yes, there is an audio offset in OBS but 2 seconds is a long delay. Adding the NDI feed as a media source directly in OBS tends to be a resource hog because it's not an efficient encoder. So unless your machine has a fast processor and video card, there is usually lag.

We do have a pretty hefty machine but we were still having some delay issues so I recently changed the way we brought the NDI source into OBS and it has helped a bunch but it's not for the faint of heart 😆

There is a plugin called GStreamer that will funnel the NDI camera feed to OBS and it's worlds more efficient. The setup does require some extra steps that are not the most intuitive but once setup, from the user side, will operate the same as your current setup. (Hopefully, sans the delay/lag)

Are you running Windows and what kind of camera does your congregation use? I'll try to do a detailed writeup to explain the process.

 

Hi Brian,

 

We are running windows. The camera looks like a small camcorder.   I just found out that LDC is actually going to be coming in about a month to switch the camera from being on IP to having a direct SDI? connection to the computer in an attempt to decrease the lag. Hopefully this helps, if not I would love to see how to implement your idea with the plugin.

[Pabo]

On 1/3/2023 at 4:52 PM, BaconTree said:

Our video seems to lag a solid 2 seconds

 

What CAT rating cable are you using?

 

If you are just using CAT-5 (or lower), the transmission is of poor quality, so is the shielding, thus may explain the lag.

 

CAT-5E has better shielding than plain CAT-5, which may improve your connection speeds.

 

We are using 20metre length of CAT-6 shielded cabling at our KH, which is much more superior to the above and our lag is only about 0.2 seconds into OBS with NDI.

 

SDI may be the better option, as it is designed specifically for long distance cables and speed, but it just means that you are running an additional cable (SDI and possibly ethernet cable if using PoE or a power socket to the PTZ) and a SDI capture device either externally or internally to your computer/laptop.

[Floyd]

30 minutes ago, Pabo said:

SDI may be the better option, as it is designed specifically for long distance cables and speed, but it just means that you are running an additional cable (SDI and possibly ethernet cable if using PoE or a power socket to the PTZ) and a SDI capture device either externally or internally to your computer/laptop.

 

SDI is what is in the Branch documentation for Kingdom Hall video systems.

[Witness1970]

In our Kingdom Hall, we have 2 cameras.  On each camera, you can have presets so that you do not have to pan around to get the correct view.  One camera has presets for the speaker stand, the table for the presentations, and the area where the reader stands.  The other camera is set for the entire stage area.  (Why 2 cameras were needed I do not know.  One camera could have all the presets for different views.  It does make it easier for the Zoom coordinator since he doesn't have to use the presets for one camera, but can just switch cameras instead.)  I purchased all the equipment from Amazon, so, if it helps I can send you a picture of everything I bought.  ( I just purchased the equipment I was told to purchase.)

 

USB cables were used to connect the cameras to the laptop that the Zoom coordinator uses.  To show videos to those on Zoom you switch from camera input to input from the sound booth.

 

A 10" tablet is set up on a stand next to the speaker so that the conductor can see when someone on Zoom raises their hand.  (If the conductor remembers to look at the tablet.)  

[Pabo]

28 minutes ago, Floyd said:

 

SDI is what is in the Branch documentation for Kingdom Hall video systems.

 

Yes, I had saw that, but that was to a specific model of PTZ camera they recommended to us which didn't have NDI capabilities.

 

As we had to source our own equipment to purchase, we went with NDI capable PTZ camera, as it would save us cash if we had to go the SDI route, and also the camera they had suggested was about 3 years old and was no longer made and outdated.

 

We haven't needed to go with the SDI route as we are mostly satisfied with our setup.

[Floyd]

10 hours ago, Pabo said:

 

Yes, I had saw that, but that was to a specific model of PTZ camera they recommended to us which didn't have NDI capabilities.

 

As we had to source our own equipment to purchase, we went with NDI capable PTZ camera, as it would save us cash if we had to go the SDI route, and also the camera they had suggested was about 3 years old and was no longer made and outdated.

 

We haven't needed to go with the SDI route as we are mostly satisfied with our setup.

 

Now we are talking about 2 different things. SDI is for video output to the TV monitors. For the camera what is suggested is a USB camera. I am just saying what the branch suggests and what LDC installs. If congregations decide to do something different then that is none of my business.

[Pabo]

13 hours ago, Floyd said:

SDI is for video output to the TV monitors. For the camera what is suggested is a USB camera.

 

The cameras the Australasia Branch suggested was either a Logitech webcam, or the PTZ camera which had SDI output. But using the PTZ camera option, you would be then connecting SDI output of the camera to a SDI capture device to connect it to your computer/laptop for it to transmit to Zoom.

 

Transmission from the computer to the stage monitors is SDI via a HMDI-to-SDI convertor.

 

When they first did the stage monitors via the LDC just over a year before the pandemic, not only a HMDI-to-SDI convertor we had to purchase to connect the computer to the stage monitors, they also in there diagrams/listing that we needed SDI-to-HMDI convertor to connect via the HMDI input to the stage monitors. When I had looked up the specs of the monitors, they already had SDI input, thus we were not needing the SDI-to HDMI converter. We checked with the purchasing department about connecting just by using the SDI input and they confirmed the monitors had SDI input connection, thus not needing that convertor. When the LDC brothers when they started to install the monitors at our KH, they said we were missing the SDI-TO-HMDI convertor and a HDMI cable, but we said just to connect the SDI directly into the monitors. They couldn't believe that the monitors actually had SDI input, but they originally thought that connection was just an TV antenna input. The LDC brothers said that if they had known this earlier, the KH's that they already set up their monitors in the preceding months, they could the saved about $500-1,000 in costs in materials for each of those KH's that they had already installed.

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Pabo

[Korotkiy]

On 1/4/2023 at 11:17 PM, BrianAV said:

There is a plugin called GStreamer

I can confirm, its a powerful tool. We have used it for congregation streaming on about a year before Quarantine.

Our Quad-core PC have been used as streaming server without lagging and desync (I think 20 clients has connected simultaneously).

And the same solution we have used for Regional Conventions in Kiev (about 35 000 delegates) and 200-300 brothers in different services saw the program throught internet. It was like a modern JW Steam Studio 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Korotkiy