GB 2025 Update #4

[Brazilian2024]

When will the next update be?

[Michał]

50 minutes ago, Brazilian2024 said:

When will the next update be?

September 5th? That will be 9 weeks after #4. 

[blanchard]

Only when it's necessary 

[ladiife]

41 minutes ago, blanchard said:

Only when it's necessary 

They’re numbered. They most likely have the updates planned out.

[blanchard]

9 hours ago, ladiife said:

They’re numbered. They most likely have the updates planned out.

Yes but the number each year is not not automatically the same

[Dolce vita]

My prediction: Friday, August 29.

[blanchard]

3 hours ago, Dolce vita said:

My prediction: Friday, August 29.

Before, betwen august 10-15 

[Dolce vita]

4 hours ago, blanchard said:

Before, betwen august 10-15 

The sooner the better😉

[Julsey]

9 hours ago, Dolce vita said:

The sooner the better😉

Is there something special we’re waiting for?? 🤔

[WatchfulServant]

2 minutes ago, Julsey said:

Is there something special we’re waiting for?? 🤔

Exactly. Starting to remind me of the mixed company out of Egypt complaining of the things they used to do and have. We are lacking nothing!

[Dages]

I don't expect any new things in the next update... just news about the conventions, maybe the september campaign... and some needs for the whole family.

[blanchard]

5 hours ago, Julsey said:

Is there something special we’re waiting for??

The logical continuation of #4 but it may only be later #7 or #8

[Dolce vita]

7 hours ago, Julsey said:

Is there something special we’re waiting for?? 🤔

Not that I know of, Sister Jules. It's just that I wait for whatever food the FDS serves, like a baby waits for its feed. I always look forward to it and watch for the days.😊

[Ivar]

Are there some other Dutch people on here who can help me think about how the principles would apply to Sinterklaas? (Non-Dutch brothers and sisters who know a bit about the celebration are also welcome to give their thoughts!)

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1989926?q=sinterklaas&p=par

The reasons this 1989 article gave for why christians can't celebrate it, had to do with the celebration's pagan elements. But Dutch people do not associate the celebration with those pagan customs anymore. 

What do you think?

[ijsvogel]

5 hours ago, Ivar said:

Are there some other Dutch people on here who can help me think about how the principles would apply to Sinterklaas? (Non-Dutch brothers and sisters who know a bit about the celebration are also welcome to give their thoughts!)

When I explain to someone why we don't celebrate Sinterklaas, I often explain that the Bible teaches us to be honest and that God hates lies. But with Sinterklaas, you tell a child that he received a gift from a Catholic saint who died long ago. Many parents (even if they are atheists) believe it's important that their children learn honesty. But how can they learn that if you lie to them yourself? With this reasoning, I don't even need to mention the pagan origins.

 

[Sepie93]

Are there some other Dutch people on here who can help me think about how the principles would apply to Sinterklaas? (Non-Dutch brothers and sisters who know a bit about the celebration are also welcome to give their thoughts!)

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1989926?q=sinterklaas&p=par

The reasons this 1989 article gave for why christians can't celebrate it, had to do with the celebration's pagan elements. But Dutch people do not associate the celebration with those pagan customs anymore. 

What do you think?

I understand what you're saying. And it is true that most of the Dutch just celebrate it because of "tradition" (although many stopped celebrating it because of the whole "kick out black Pete"-movement... but that's food for another subject).

For me, personally, the whole issue with Sinterklaas is that it is the direct celebration of a Catholic Saint: Saint Nicholas of Myra.
There might be pagan roots. But this isn't the issue for me. It is the commemoration and celebration of a saint of one of the biggest apostate churches. Even though most people don't celebrate it anymore out of a religious connection, it is still very much religious. The very essence of Sinterklaas is recognizable religious. Just some terms which are still used by the people:
the bishop, the Good Holy Man, the bishops staff, the Mitre (the hat), the Robe (bishops robe).
What about all the crosses displayed at his clothes and big book?

So, the religious connection is still there; even though most people will not be religiously attached to it. They still know it and sing about it.

What has been interesting for me lately is what happens at my work.
I work at an elementary school for refugee children. Most have an Islamic background. And then, on the 5th of December, all children will sit around, sing to, and cheer for this Catholic Bishop. Every year, I can't help but feel a little disgusted by this celebration.

(Even though I like the pepernoten. Especially the ones with chocolate. Plus, they make a good math lesson for younger children. "You have 5 pepernoten, but you are very hungry and eat one. How much do you have left!?" )

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[Miss Bea]

This post made me think about something a brother told me sometime ago. I’m Native American, and jewelry and its origins come from different tribes.

In our area, the year of Tribe doesn’t have anything like a, “ Dreamcatcher”. Others do. I was out in service and I blithely my brother, my opinion about dream catchers.

That since we saw no value in them, they were pretty and I didn’t see a problem with them. I was corrected post haste.
Just because we don’t have Dreamcatchers in this area, it doesn’t mean the origin of them goes away. There went my dream catchers..

Origins matter.

[Ivar]

19 hours ago, ijsvogel said:

When I explain to someone why we don't celebrate Sinterklaas, I often explain that the Bible teaches us to be honest and that God hates lies. But with Sinterklaas, you tell a child that he received a gift from a Catholic saint who died long ago. Many parents (even if they are atheists) believe it's important that their children learn honesty. But how can they learn that if you lie to them yourself? With this reasoning, I don't even need to mention the pagan origins.

Good point, thank you! I did a search on how (non-JW) parents feel about that. I found this Dutch article: https://dit.eo.nl/artikel/is-liegen-tegen-kinderen-over-het-bestaan-van-sinterklaas-erg

One of the experts they quoted argues that parents should tell the truth about the tradition to their kids, so they don't believe Sinterklaas is a real person. And another expert advices parentes to tell their children that it is a kind of roleplaying game.

I suppose you could compare it to the actors at theme parks like Disneyland. I would tell my future children that Snow White is just a woman who is roleplaying. But I am not sure whether it is wrong or not if certain parents don't tell their young children those figures are not real. And I think there is also a difference between not saying something about it, and actively pretending that it is true.

 

Quote

 

"Around the age of 2, children begin to play pretend. Their flip-flop becomes a telephone, the broom becomes a horse, and they can do all of their cooking on top of a cardboard box. They also believe in fantasy beings like the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny, and it is not uncommon to have imaginary friends. Indeed, young children have difficulty distinguishing fantasy from reality.

 

However, between the ages of 3 and 7, children gradually become more sophisticated in their ability to understand the difference. For example, young preschoolers tend to believe everything they see on TV is real. Yet, by 5 or 6 they understand that if something violates physical reality, such as the special effects or animation in their favorite TV programs, it's not real.

 

This trajectory can be seen in one study on children's perceptions of fictional TV characters. The investigation found that 4-year-old participants believed Big Bird from Sesame Street was real. However, 5- to 6-year-old participants knew that Big Bird was a person wearing a costume, as they had come to understand that the character violates physical reality."

https://www.verywellmind.com/can-children-understand-the-difference-between-fantasy-and-reality-5217713

 

 

[Ivar]

23 hours ago, Sepie93 said:

For me, personally, the whole issue with Sinterklaas is that it is the direct celebration of a Catholic Saint: Saint Nicholas of Myra.
There might be pagan roots. But this isn't the issue for me. It is the commemoration and celebration of a saint of one of the biggest apostate churches. Even though most people don't celebrate it anymore out of a religious connection, it is still very much religious. The very essence of Sinterklaas is recognizable religious. Just some terms which are still used by the people:
the bishop, the Good Holy Man, the bishops staff, the Mitre (the hat), the Robe (bishops robe).
What about all the crosses displayed at his clothes and big book?

 

Also a good point, thank you! Then the question every christian should ask for themself is, to what extent do we view this celebration as commemorating a bishop, or a good man who happened to be a bishop. (Btw, I found out that sometimes the religious symbols are removed: https://www.standaard.be/binnenland/waals-ziekenfonds-schrapt-kruis-op-mijter-sinterklaas/41281416.html.)

As a comparison, on the one hand you have a feast like christmas, on the other hand you have Saint George. The first is clearly a church celebration. The latter is remembered foremostly because he defeated a dragon, not because he was a saint. 

So together with the comment by ijsvogel, I think the following questions (based on your remarks) will be helpful when deciding:

1. Does the celebration fit with christian norms (e.g. honesty)?

2. To what extent is it regarded as a religious feast?