The Neanderthal Problem

[Shawnster]

 

 

 

Wow! This is a great video that lays out nicely how Neanderthals are really humans. 

 

[LeolaRootStew]

I think we might be in for a few surprises when the oldest ones are resurrected.

[chuck83]

This is my own opinion but after the flood there were 8. What was before? Do we know? Do we have a full DNA set or limited? Can we ever really trust radiocarbon dating (likely no)? We'll find out!

 

Like @LeolaRootStew said and I echo, the resurrection is going to be surprising and we may see how Satan tried to take credit through secularism/humanism. When the reality was it was there all along. He just blurred the lines. Exciting!! Thanks @Shawnster. 😁

 

Edited Monday at 06:00 PM by chuck83

[sully313]

Great…so my wife is right when she calls me a Neanderthal

 

cool video though

 

😁😞🤦‍♂️

[dljbsp]

Interesting—this frames Neanderthals as fully human without forcing extra assumptions. It sticks closely to the evidence presented.

[Percy]

2 hours ago, Shawnster said:

Wow! This is a great video that lays out nicely how Neanderthals are really humans. 

Excellent! Do you remember Alley Oop comics? He was a Neanderthal brought to the present via a time machine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alley_Oop Lots of fun for little kids!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcNSGFeUIV0

 

How many Neanderthals have been found outside caves? It was mentioned that they ritually buried their dead. Did they find the graves and where were they?

[Percy]

Here is a catalogue of Neanderthal finds and what I discovered, is that the vast majority of them are found in caves, often buried in mud that has hardened into rock or brechia. It just seems odd that their remains stayed in the caves, as these were their homes as places for protection from the elements. If somebody died in a home, would you leave it to rot beside you? The other explanation is that they were trying to escape something outside the home; torrential rain never seen in that amount before. After it was finished there was nobody left to dig them out.

Don't be thrown off by the great ages assigned, as it is often determined by the age of the mud around the bones.

https://dinoera.com/humans-ancestors/homo-ancestors/catalog-of-neanderthal-remains-sites-2-of-4/

The caves were not unlike those in England that contained a mix of animal bones of predators along with their prey. It is as if they were all fleeing into the cave and eating was not as important as survival.

https://www.subbrit.org.uk/sites/banwell-bone-caves/

[Mike047]

Sime interesting observations, Percy.

Neander Valley, near Düsseldorf, was named after Joachim Neumann, a 17th‑century German pastor, who likely was a man with broader interests.

 

Those discovered remains that you have mentioned, show from research that they were physically and genetically distinct from modern humans. Since we have biblical lineage of humans from Adam down, we know for sure that anything accurately dated before the time of Adam must be of a kind covered by the creations in a different, pre-human era.

[LeolaRootStew]

36 minutes ago, Mike047 said:

Sime interesting observations, Percy.

Neander Valley, near Düsseldorf, was named after Joachim Neumann, a 17th‑century German pastor, who likely was a man with broader interests.

 

Those discovered remains that you have mentioned, show from research that they were physically and genetically distinct from modern humans. Since we have biblical lineage of humans from Adam down, we know for sure that anything accurately dated before the time of Adam must be of a kind covered by the creations in a different, pre-human era.

 

Or their dating system is wrong.

[Shawnster]

2 hours ago, Percy said:

If somebody died in a home, would you leave it to rot beside you? The other explanation is that they were trying to escape something outside the home; torrential rain never seen in that amount before

 

 

That's one possibility. On the other hand, not everything connects back to the Flood. We need to resist the fallacy of confirmation bias. 

 

 

Quote

Those discovered remains that you have mentioned, show from research that they were physically and genetically distinct from modern humans. Since we have biblical lineage of humans from Adam down, we know for sure that anything accurately dated before the time of Adam must be of a kind covered by the creations in a different, pre-human era.

 

We understand these individuals were descendants of Adam. They weren't from before him, no matter what the dating methods state. If they found Adam and Eve's remains, those would also date much older than 6,000 years ago. 

 

What causes these dates to be so inaccurate is a mystery. One possibility is a major climatic event like the Flood resulted in messing up the dating methods similar to how atomic bombs have resulted in affecting the dating of paintings from before/after 1945. 

 

That's one possibility, but we can't be dogmatic on that. There may be a reason not related to the Flood. 

Edited yesterday at 12:28 PM by Shawnster

[chuck83]

I was wrong they don't use radiocarbon dating for fossils. They use radiometric dating using lead and uranium from surrounding rocks because supposedly it helps them date back billions of years, carbon doesn't last billionaire of years. But like radiocarbon dating, all assumptions and guesses. Even when you ask AI, things like what @Shawnster posted can fit under the umbrella of creation despite what science thinks is true by "theory" of billions of year ago.

 

I cannot wait for Jehovah to reconcile all his creation! Let's go, new earth!!! 

[Shawnster]

People who scientists refer to as Neanderthals could have died before the Flood, during, or after. 

[chuck83]

4 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

People who scientists refer to as Neanderthals could have died before the Flood, during, or after. 

 

I'm not sure if you're referring to me but I agree. I don't believe in the 100,000+ years ago of humanity. I guess what I mean is came from Adam and Eve versus creation overall. I worded that incorrectly. Apologies.

[Shawnster]

26 minutes ago, chuck83 said:

 

I'm not sure if you're referring to me but I agree. I don't believe in the 100,000+ years ago of humanity. I guess what I mean is came from Adam and Eve versus creation overall. I worded that incorrectly. Apologies.

 

No, I was thinking I sounded to limiting in saying Neanderthals only lived before the flood. 

 

Obviously at some point their gene pool spread out so much that there are no ethnic groups that can be pointed to as specifically Neanderthal. Since humans today still carry these genes, clearly Noah, his sons, or the 4 wives were descendants of this group of people. Also obviously the entire group came from Adam and Eve. So, I guess we can say that Seth and the rest of the ones mentioned in Genesis carried some of these genes. 

 

 

[chuck83]

1 hour ago, Shawnster said:

Since humans today still carry these genes, clearly Noah, his sons, or the 4 wives were descendants of this group of people. Also obviously the entire group came from Adam and Eve. So, I guess we can say that Seth and the rest of the ones mentioned in Genesis carried some of these genes. 

 

It may or may not be true but I think of doppelgängers and when people break up and some say, "man they're with someone that looks like their previous...". I look at my wife and most of the woman I've found to be pretty are a variant of her and she's even seeing it now with men. When you have a type you have a type.

I'm starting to see the same patterns over and over again in people. There was a brother in metro Friday that's latino that looks like my best friend's dad who is black. Nose, jaw, cheek, eyes even with the puffs below. My wife's like,  "this brother looks familiar!" I'm like, "it looks like my friend's dad!" And she saw it.

 

I'm not being dogmatic about genes and DNA myself and personally feel our gene pool is limited. I can't wait to see what those in the resurrection look like. It'll be fun. 

 

(AAA! Available after armageddon! I think brothers and sisters today shouldn't sell themselves short on finding a mate this side of the system. What we call a Neanderthal might be more beautiful than we are now. 🤣)

Edited yesterday at 07:09 PM by chuck83

[Percy]

Here is a puzzle that came up some years ago. Kennewick Man.

Here you have some bones along the bank of the Columbia River and they slap several thousand years on him. Hmmm?

His stature was tall and thin, not unlike those of Scandinavia. Then they talked about DNA being 'similar' to native americans, then off to the courts it went. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennewick_Man

 

It should be noted that DNA has a half-life of 521 years. What does that mean? Could there be more than just science involved in the analysis of ancient DNA? Remember the older something is, the more readership it generates. 

https://www.sciencefocus.com/the-human-body/how-long-does-dna-last

[Witness1970]

I had never thought of DNA half-life before.  I found something interesting on the internet.

 

The concept of DNA half-life is essential for understanding the limits of DNA preservation and its implications for scientific research. With a half-life of approximately 521 years, DNA can provide valuable insights into the past, but its degradation over time poses challenges for recovering ancient genetic material.
By studying the conditions that affect DNA stability, scientists can improve techniques for analyzing degraded samples and enhance our understanding of genetic history.

 

I did read that some things, such as heat, can shorten the time it takes to deteriorate and that cold and dry conditions can preserve DNA somewhat longer.

[Jan Brad]

Is is possible that the lineages listed in Genesis are compressed and skip dozens of generations? Because if that were the case it, would add  tens of thousands of years to human history. 

[LeolaRootStew]

12 minutes ago, Jan Brad said:

Is is possible that the lineages listed in Genesis are compressed and skip dozens of generations? Because if that were the case it, would add  tens of thousands of years to human history. 

 

Why would the Bible suddenly, and only in one spot, list genealogies metaphorically?

[Shawnster]

50 minutes ago, Jan Brad said:

Is is possible that the lineages listed in Genesis are compressed and skip dozens of generations? Because if that were the case it, would add  tens of thousands of years to human history. 

 

 

Same lineage in Matthew and Luke. Matthew stops at Abraham but details every generation after and the ones in Genesis line up. Luke lists every generation back to Adam and those, likewise, correspond with Genesis. 

 

Skipping or compressing generations serves no purpose. In fact it raises questions as to who was skipped and why. Most of the people listed, especially in Luke's account, seem to have no historical impact beyond being an ancestor of Christ, so then we ask why include this "nobody" but skip that "nobody"? 

 

The ages of each father at the time of birth of their son in the Genesis account makes it difficult to reconcile with any skipped generation. If generations were skipped, then those ages are meaningless. Why bother including such ages? 

[ucastrobr]

If there were a skipped generation besides Adam and Eve, they would still be alive because Adamic sin would not apply to them. They would be perfect even today.

[Shawnster]

2 hours ago, ucastrobr said:

If there were a skipped generation besides Adam and Eve, they would still be alive because Adamic sin would not apply to them. They would be perfect even today.

 

I think something was lost in translation. This discussion of a "skipped generation" is simply referring to the possibility of some descendants of Adam and Eve simply left out of the genealogical records in the Bible. They would be skipped in the sense that they are simply not listed. For example, perhaps, at Genesis 5:6 the idea is that instead of being Seth's son, E'nosh might instead be his grandson or great grandson, and so on. These unlisted, ignored, forgotten, or skipped generations would still be descendants of Adam and, therefore, subject to sin and death, but they were simily not included in the record.