Some Amazing Science Stuff

[1gemstone]

yes, it from Star track......I'm not sure if the sister wants to go into space in the new system or what. I would think we would have a perfect seat no matter where we sit on earth looking up at all the planets.   I just can't imagine how awesome that would look like.   I can't see any stars here where I live. 

[Cherene]

This thread is so intresting, and ''time'' has always boggled me. I have always wondered :

If Jehovah so desired, He COULD look into the future and see the outcome of our future, the decisions we are going to make etc etc etc. however, as free moral agents how is it possible to look into something that doesnt yet exist as our decision could go either way. Jehovah is NOT a God of predestination and our future does not yet exist, so how would reading our future be scientifically possible ? I know Jehovah can manoeuvre things in order for His prophecy to be fulfilled and also predict the obvious but Jehovah does not interfere with our evey move and yet He can see it all in the future........

I would love to grasp this concept one day.......

[jayrtom]

This thread is so intresting, and ''time'' has always boggled me. I have always wondered :

If Jehovah so desired, He COULD look into the future and see the outcome of our future, the decisions we are going to make etc etc etc. however, as free moral agents how is it possible to look into something that doesnt yet exist as our decision could go either way. Jehovah is NOT a God of predestination and our future does not yet exist, so how would reading our future be scientifically possible ? I know Jehovah can manoeuvre things in order for His prophecy to be fulfilled and also predict the obvious but Jehovah does not interfere with our evey move and yet He can see it all in the future........

I would love to grasp this concept one day.......

If you think, at a very short time frame, you can predict the future also... If you drop a coin you can predict that it will touch the ground in the "future"... Jehovah knows or can know every possible variable involved for any thing so he can predict exactly what will happen within any time frame... For that specific chain of events where Jehovah looked into, there is determinism involved. Not that the future is already written, it's just that because Jehovah looked into this, all the probabilistic waves that I described above collapsed into classical behavior and so will have deterministic outcome.

When Jehovah doesn't look into the things, because he chooses not to do so, the world is not deterministic and it's impossible to predict anything beyond a very short time frame.

http://m.wol.jw.org/pt/wol/dsync/r5/lp-t/r1/lp-e/1200001549#h=26-27&selpar=26

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[Julsey]

you mean one of these???? 

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<g>

[Julsey]

Is that the transportation from star track?

It has already been done the teleportation of one atom from Paris to NY... But don't know about an entire human being

I've seen the movie "the fly", from the sixties and I don't want to end up like that... with a fly had

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

No, no fly heads, please, lol...

[Julsey]

So, does anyone want to tackle string theory next? <g>

 

Oh, Missy, it's not that I want to go into space in the new system (well, not immediately anyway, lol), but I wouldn't mind being able to 'pop over' to various places in a matter of seconds to visit friends.  I know, I know.  We will all be friends, then, but who wouldn't want to pop over to Paris for a croissant and café au lait breakfast every now and then?  ;-)

 

Yes, I am an *original Star Trek* person...

[1gemstone]

So, does anyone want to tackle string theory next? <g>

 

Oh, Missy, it's not that I want to go into space in the new system (well, not immediately anyway, lol), but I wouldn't mind being able to 'pop over' to various places in a matter of seconds to visit friends.  I know, I know.  We will all be friends, then, but who wouldn't want to pop over to Paris for a croissant and café au lait breakfast every now and then?  ;-)

 

Yes, I am an *original Star Trek* person...

     

[PottersClay]

Trek Person: "Live Long and Prosper"

Witness: "Don't worry, I plan on it!"

[Cherene]

Zac thanks for that imput and I really get what you are saying, for example, if I put milk on a hot plate, i can predict that it will boil over HOWEVER if I determine to put the hot plate off before the obvious outcome, I have now had a hand in changing the outcome and so too Jehovah sometimes acts in order for His purpose to become a reality. BUT I am talking about OUR free will...... Is it because Jehovah knows us so well that He can see the outcome of our future if He so pleases ? Free moral agents make decisions, and our decisions can vary to such a huge extent. So how would Jehovah peer into the future of the free moral agent whom has not yet made a decison, I also tend to agree that it all has to to with time frames. I liked your analogy of the stack of paper, but I would love to understand this in depth. Well now I know what I am going to ask Jehovah when we finally have the restored privilege of speaking with Him personally........ If I make it though......

[jayrtom]

Zac thanks for that imput and I really get what you are saying, for example, if I put milk on a hot plate, i can predict that it will boil over HOWEVER if I determine to put the hot plate off before the obvious outcome, I have now had a hand in changing the outcome and so too Jehovah sometimes acts in order for His purpose to become a reality. BUT I am talking about OUR free will...... Is it because Jehovah knows us so well that He can see the outcome of our future if He so pleases ? Free moral agents make decisions, and our decisions can vary to such a huge extent. So how would Jehovah peer into the future of the free moral agent whom has not yet made a decison, I also tend to agree that it all has to to with time frames. I liked your analogy of the stack of paper, but I would love to understand this in depth. Well now I know what I am going to ask Jehovah when we finally have the restored privilege of speaking with Him personally........ If I make it though......

I take you are referring to my comment and not Zac's so I'll try to explain it better.

I will refer the two slit experiment.

You put a plate with two tiny holes near each other. This holes are so tiny and so near each other that the probability wave (refer my previous comments) has an extent bigger than the distance of the 2 holes. This plate is between a machine that triggers an electron into a wall that detects the electrons shots. If we had only one hole the marks on the wall would be exactly with the same pattern as if we had shot tennis balls into a wall through a Window.

If we had shot tennis balls trough 2 windows the patterns on the wall would be a distribution of marks on two sides of the wall, ones for the times the ball had passed one window and others for the times the ball had passed the other Window. The thing is that, for the tennis ball, it will pass one window OR the other. So the marks on the wall will reflect that situation.

Back to the electron, when we shot it through the 2 slits and then see the result on the wall, the marks will be nothing as the tennis marks. Those marks will be a characteristic pattern of light and dark patches.

It is so because the probability wave passing trough the slits will divide itself into two waves out of the holes. This 2 waves will then intersect with each other, much like two waves of water that passe between two tubes. The patches on the wall correspond to the points where the peaks and troughs of the waves going out from the two slits combine with one another either constructively or destructively. We can never ask trough what slit did the electron passed!

With this configuration, when the electron is triggered, no one, not even Jehovah (because he chose so) can predict where it will touch the wall! It is a complete undeterministic setup!

How can we understand then how the things change when Jehovah chooses to see the future?

Back to the experiment, say we want to know from what slit did the electron passed... Remember I said we can never ask that question with the first configuration of the experiment... So we put an electron detector near each slit and think that by that way we will know! But soon we do that and the interference patches on the wall desappear! Now they look just like the marks made by the tennis ball trough 2 windows!

What happened?

When we put the detectors the probabilistic wave collapses into a single position and there is no interference and no undeterministic effects anymore!

Those detectors are like Jehovah taking a look into the pile of papers. From that moment on, all chain of events related to that moment go a pure deterministic future.... Until another 2 slit plate is found.

Our free will is related to the fact that Jehovah chooses not to know everything (although he could do that) for the sake of our free will. But at any moment he can look into our heart and see where it is going

But look into the insight link I posted before.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[jayrtom]

So, does anyone want to tackle string theory next?

Oh, Missy, it's not that I want to go into space in the new system (well, not immediately anyway, lol), but I wouldn't mind being able to 'pop over' to various places in a matter of seconds to visit friends. I know, I know. We will all be friends, then, but who wouldn't want to pop over to Paris for a croissant and café au lait breakfast every now and then? ;-)

Yes, I am an *original Star Trek* person...

Don't worry because when we live forever the time to go to Paris will be like 2 seconds ;) say you have a friend looking into a butterfly and trying to understand its life... You say, "wait a minute I go to Paris have a fine delicious croissant"......

When you return he will be looking to the same butterfly still trying to understand its life ;)

I don't know where you leave but we to have delicious croissants here in Portugal

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[Julsey]

Trek Person: "Live Long and Prosper"

Witness: "Don't worry, I plan on it!"

LOL!

[Julsey]

Don't worry because when we live forever the time to go to Paris will be like 2 seconds ;) say you have a friend looking into a butterfly and trying to understand its life... You say, "wait a minute I go to Paris have a fine delicious croissant"......

When you return he will be looking to the same butterfly still trying to understand its life ;)

I don't know where you leave but we to have delicious croissants here in Portugal

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

That would be a very, very patient friend.<g>

 

I'm in Texas, and I had no idea about the croissants in Portugal!  Actually, I can get a decent croissant here, but it's just the ambience that's missing.  ;)

[Cherene]

Hi Jay, sorry, I got the names mixed up. Thanks for the explination but tsho!!!!! I need to go through all that info very carefully. Which could take a while...hee hee hee.....

[VL4D]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22996054

Now most of this article went over my head, but I think I got the main points.

Firstly this is by no means established fact and is under heavy debate, though this new research has boosted the theory with some evidence to back it up.

Secondly, assuming the research is correct, then plants are operating in a way that science itself struggles to understand and in an environment where such operation would not be expected.

So correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that the Photosythesis being done by plants is actually even more amazing than first thought. Light energy upon reaching the plant has to be delivered to an "energy harvesting machine" in the plant to be converted into chemical energy, this is already accepted scientific fact. What the research suggests however is that the delivery process of the light energy (in the form of photons) is super efficient and adaptable. The photons are delivered down the path that is most efficient, despite the fact that, due to environmental variables, the most efficent path can and will change often. The photons are also able to establish the most efficient path by means of a (theorised?) quantum mechanism known as 'superposition' which is basically the ability of the particle to be in several places at once, or in this case to travel every path at once, establish the most efficient and travel down only that one.

I was proud of myself for making the connection to the Schrodinger's Cat paradox, which in a nutshell shows that an object (in this case a cat) can exist in several states (in this case both dead and alive) however once observed it exists in only one state (either dead or alive).

Linking it back, much like the cat is both dead and alive, the photon has travelled down every path, however in actuality it travels down only one, much like the cat is only one thing, either dead or alive, not both.

It is mind boggling and awe-inspiring. Forgive the use of the term but its like the photon in the plant is using magic.

Go ahead householder! Just try and explain how that evolved with no guiding force or influence.

For those of you whose knowledge in this area surpasses mine (which is probably the majority of you) feel free to correct me or to add something I have missed. Also my understanding of quantum physicis isthat basically its physics but dealing with undefinable quantities?

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22996054

Now most of this article went over my head, but I think I got the main points.

Firstly this is by no means established fact and is under heavy debate, though this new research has boosted the theory with some evidence to back it up.

Secondly, assuming the research is correct, then plants are operating in a way that science itself struggles to understand and in an environment where such operation would not be expected.

So correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that the Photosythesis being done by plants is actually even more amazing than first thought. Light energy upon reaching the plant has to be delivered to an "energy harvesting machine" in the plant to be converted into chemical energy, this is already accepted scientific fact. What the research suggests however is that the delivery process of the light energy (in the form of photons) is super efficient and adaptable. The photons are delivered down the path that is most efficient, despite the fact that, due to environmental variables, the most efficent path can and will change often. The photons are also able to establish the most efficient path by means of a (theorised?) quantum mechanism known as 'superposition' which is basically the ability of the particle to be in several places at once, or in this case to travel every path at once, establish the most efficient and travel down only that one.

I was proud of myself for making the connection to the Schrodinger's Cat paradox, which in a nutshell shows that an object (in this case a cat) can exist in several states (in this case both dead and alive) however once observed it exists in only one state (either dead or alive).

Linking it back, much like the cat is both dead and alive, the photon has travelled down every path, however in actuality it travels down only one, much like the cat is only one thing, either dead or alive, not both.

It is mind boggling and awe-inspiring. Forgive the use of the term but its like the photon in the plant is using magic.

Go ahead householder! Just try and explain how that evolved with no guiding force or influence.

For those of you whose knowledge in this area surpasses mine (which is probably the majority of you) feel free to correct me or to add something I have missed. Also my understanding of quantum physicis isthat basically its physics but dealing with undefinable quantities?

Here's the original Cat Theory for those who want to know the whole thing:

 

 

 

 

Schrödinger's cat: a cat, a flask of poison, and a radioactive source are placed in a sealed box. If an internal monitor detects radioactivity (i.e. a single atom decaying), the flask is shattered, releasing the poison that kills the cat. The Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics implies that after a while, the cat is simultaneously alive and dead. Yet, when one looks in the box, one sees the cat either alive or dead, not both alive and dead.

 

 

 

This poses the question of when exactly quantum superposition ends and reality collapses into one possibility or the other.

[Julsey]

 

This poses the question of when exactly quantum superposition ends and reality collapses into one possibility or the other.

 

Wha.....?

 

<g>

[VL4D]

Wha.....?

 

<g>

In english: When science and life go boom

[VL4D]

This thread is so intresting, and ''time'' has always boggled me. I have always wondered :

If Jehovah so desired, He COULD look into the future and see the outcome of our future, the decisions we are going to make etc etc etc. however, as free moral agents how is it possible to look into something that doesnt yet exist as our decision could go either way. Jehovah is NOT a God of predestination and our future does not yet exist, so how would reading our future be scientifically possible ? I know Jehovah can manoeuvre things in order for His prophecy to be fulfilled and also predict the obvious but Jehovah does not interfere with our evey move and yet He can see it all in the future........

I would love to grasp this concept one day.......

 

Jehovah can possibly see every choice we could make, what that would lead too, then he could see what choice we would make again, etc. etc. So in reality there are billions of futures we could have, and everything we do affects what future we're leading too. Jehovah, being all knowing and all powerful, can probably see all of these futures.

 

(i know i said probably and possibly a lot. It is just a guess.)

[Cherene]

Yes indeed ! Jehovah is all knowing and can see every aspect of our lives, even our future can be viewed by our our Eternal God. My question however is NOT..... ''Can He ?''..... BUT rather... ''HOW does He ?''. As humans, Jehovah has given us intellect. We are therefore beings of thought. As such we wonder about ''why ?'' ''how ?'' ''where !'' and ''when !''. Jehovah is a God of science, maths, biology, geography etc etc etc. Time is just a small but very intresting subject that I would LOVE to know more about. I look forward to gaining insight into such deep subjects......Jehovah willing of course......

[Cherene]

Yes indeed ! Jehovah is all knowing and can see every aspect of our lives, even our future can be viewed by our our Eternal God. My question however is NOT..... ''Can He ?''..... BUT rather... ''HOW does He ?''. As humans, Jehovah has given us intellect. We are therefore beings of thought. As such we wonder about ''why ?'' ''how ?'' ''where !'' and ''when !''. Jehovah is a God of science, maths, biology, geography etc etc etc. Time is just a small but very intresting subject that I would LOVE to know more about. I look forward to gaining insight into such deep subjects......Jehovah willing of course......

[Cherene]

Yes indeed ! Jehovah is all knowing and can see every aspect of our lives, even our future can be viewed by our our Eternal God. My question however is NOT..... ''Can He ?''..... BUT rather... ''HOW does He ?''. As humans, Jehovah has given us intellect. We are therefore beings of thought. As such we wonder about ''why ?'' ''how ?'' ''where !'' and ''when !''. Jehovah is a God of science, maths, biology, geography etc etc etc. Time is just a small but very intresting subject that I would LOVE to know more about. I look forward to gaining insight into such deep subjects......Jehovah willing of course......

[maladee]

I luv space time continuim stuff  

[jayrtom]

Jehovah can possibly see every choice we could make, what that would lead too, then he could see what choice we would make again, etc. etc. So in reality there are billions of futures we could have, and everything we do affects what future we're leading too. Jehovah, being all knowing and all powerful, can probably see all of these futures.

(i know i said probably and possibly a lot. It is just a guess.)

Jehovah can be all knowing if he chooses so, but most of the times he doesn't choose to know, so that we can have free will and the world can run with unpredictability.

When in fact he chooses țo know and for the affected contexts there is only one posible future.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[jayrtom]

Yes indeed ! Jehovah is all knowing and can see every aspect of our lives, even our future can be viewed by our our Eternal God. My question however is NOT..... ''Can He ?''..... BUT rather... ''HOW does He ?''. As humans, Jehovah has given us intellect. We are therefore beings of thought. As such we wonder about ''why ?'' ''how ?'' ''where !'' and ''when !''. Jehovah is a God of science, maths, biology, geography etc etc etc. Time is just a small but very intresting subject that I would LOVE to know more about. I look forward to gaining insight into such deep subjects......Jehovah willing of course......

Read this post carefully and see if you can find a possible explanation to the "how "

http://jwtalk.net/forums/index.php?/topic/9743-Some-Amazing-Science-Stuff#entry154076

Some Amazing Science Stuff

As for the nature of time, some say time doesn't exist really... It's just a creation of our subconscious mind... An ilusion... But no one really knows...

I think Jehovah exists outside time... In the uppermost dimension there is.

He created time alongside everything else... Several layers of dimensions with different time references. For instance, the dimension for the angels, the dimension for the vicinity of earth, for the tartarus.... For the physical universe as we know it... Etc...

so we can't pose the question of "what was there before gen 1:1", because "before", "when", "during" and such are all concepts that are out of context for Jehovah... That's why he is simultaneously the Alfa and the Omega and extends from time indefinite to time indefinite

As there is no context for beginning and ending, he is infinite

Being outside of time he is an observer and ruler for every possible event there is, so he chooses to do so...

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[Cherene]

Thanks Jay for really trying to help me grasp the concept of ''time''. I still find your analogy of the stack of paper the simplest for me to understand. Thanks to ALL you science experts out there for trying to explain these complex ideas.