Pjdriver

Greg, but how could you prove Paul was referring to organized religion's demise, rather than armageddon? Think about this....how much physical “destruction" will there be to ban organized religions? There will continue to be law and order for a time after that.....until the real physical destruction directly from Jesus and friends comes at armageddon. Eradicating organized religion is not mentioned until the Revelation w/BTG. I was just wondering, why P&S couldn’t come after religion is banned and just before the “sudden destruction”? Seems reasonable, since religion tends to disrupt peace. They could justify banning organizations for the sake of peace. If they declare peace and security, then instantly ban religion....the peace would be very short-lived. To Destry BTG, there really needs to be no significant physical destruction. Her demise comes from losing support of the peoples and Governments and being banned. She has no more influence. The Real physical destruction comes at armageddon....the “sudden destruction”. It appears as though there will be an interim of peace after BTG is banned and before Armageddon strikes. Is that the so called "Peace and security” period before the "sudden destruction" of armageddon? Stay tuned.

Daniel, these are just my musings.......this is not critical to life values base in scripture or my relationship with Jehovah. When the Romans initially surrounded Jerusalem in 66 C.E. then retreated and didn’t come back for almost 4 years.....that was an interim of “peace"....so they thought. And some Christian were tempted to stay. Just sayin’ the order of the P&S and destruction doesn’t seem to be plainly written. One question I wondered about was; if peace is declared before BTG goes down....what is the motive for putting her down.... if there is already peace. So, if the nations see BTG as a deterrent to peace, and they shut her down....couldn’t this lead to a declaration of peace and perhaps a brief interim of Peace before armageddon? Since peace is a major reason why they shut her down....they would be able to use Peace and security to justify why the take down of organized religion/ BTG. Then they (Gog) come after us.....And Bang! Armageddon, "Sudden destruction" with complete chaos in the streets. and "fearful signs in heaven” etc.... So, Was Paul talking about "sudden destruction" of religion or the destruction of the whole system. The later part (armageddon) seems to makes just as much sense. Why is that not feasible? Is there some way to show it could not be that way? This is just my musings, I don’t claim to “Know” ....but it seems logical. Nevertheless, either way I’ll be happy. I don’t try to teach that to the public. I stick with the slave interpretation on that. Anyway, The feet (Anglo-American) made of iron and partly of clay is now experiencing a rebellion of sorts....with violent protesters....radicalizing the next generation. The current war and subsequent protests originate in religion (Jew/Muslim/Christian). I would think at some point these protest have to stop before the nations can claim there's peace. When got tries to attack God’s people...He responds suddenly, like "touching the pupil of his eye." Then comes armageddon suddenly with the "fearful sights” .etc....and chaos.... until Jesus hits them on the head with his iron Rod, and ends it once and for all. Just sayin'

I was thinking: was Paul referring to the sudden destruction of the nations or BTG? Just my musings but it seems if there is a specific declaration of peace, it would come after BTG is no more and just prior to the final end (armageddon). I;m not sure of any reason it has to come before that. Maybe someone knows. Maybe that is the calm before storm.... the final blow.

Yes the Law didn’t come until shortly after they left Egypt. My point was that for non-worshipers of Jehovah, they decided last minute to join or go with what appeared to them to be Gods People.....there was no "formal commitment" to make. However the circumstances allowed for them to make a formal commitment later. Which they had to do. Point being....the formal commitment does not always have to come first. It just depends on the circumstances. It doesn’t mean people will fool Jehovah’s judgement. There may not be enough time for all who join us after the GT starts, to make a dedication and get baptized. Later those non-worshipers were definitely required to make a commitment. Just pointing out that the order of things is not always one way in that regard. It does not have to be. Jehovah can sort it out as he goes......we have 1000 years. The scriptures gives us a general rule: If you learn a reasonable amount about Jehovah you are obligated to dedicate your life to him and get baptised. Only Jehovah can determine at what point that person should have responded and got baptized. Another example similar, is Cornelius, and his whole household who were anointed with HS for heavenly life as Kings and Preist...... before being baptized. Havent’ heard of it since, but it was to show they had God’s approval so Peter would allow them to be baptized. Point being.... Jehovah is not obligated to a certain order in that regard.

I agree. A long while back we’ve had discussions here that a person had to be baptized before the GT to be saved... However, the requirement for baptism applies to those who can make an informed dedication. Evidently the GC in Rev 7 is portraying those who have a relationship with God and are baptized....”they have washed their robes in the blood of the lamb”. These have a great advantage and opportunity for survival. However this in itself does not necessarily rule out others surviving the GT. Like Baptism does not guarantee survival. Likewise, not being baptized because of circumstances beyond our control will not automatically mean our destruction would it? Jehovah does not desire any to be destroyed. Many may not be at that point of dedication before armageddon starts....however they may understand enough to join us during that time. But a dedication requires a relationship with God. We don[’t just want people going thru the motions. Just my opinion but I can’t see someone starting to study, then they are told; "if you want to survive you better make a dedication right now and get baptized.” Should dedication be pressured, or made in a desperate attempt to get saved? I think of the example of the Egyptians voluntarily leaving with the Israelites.....later they agreed to the terms of the Law covenant. Jehovah is a reasonable, and merciful God.

Unless Jehovah alters the mindset of hundreds of millions of people....I would speculate that it is “Organized Religion” that will be destroyed. I don’t see peoples so-called “spirituality" suddenly vanishing. Organized religion is what turns many people off and what has caused many of the atrocities committed over the years. Seize all assets and outlaw organized religious activities. IMO

Sounds like he was suicidal and needed a cause to justify it. Look at these college kids being radicalized even supporting a terrorist group….under the guise of “free Palestine”. Their tactic is to force people to do what they want whatever that requires…..including hurting innocent people.

Yes but we still don’t want to unnecessarily encourage hatred of one group against another.

We need balance too. True? It’s this world we live in.....it’s a mine field we have to navigate.

While some Jews (leaders) bear most responsibility for Jesus death as the scriptures make clear.....people tend to make the whole group responsible for Jesus death. It would be like if my son was killed in Vietnam....and I go around saying: "the Vietnamese people killed my son.” You can see how this could influence others to hate anyone Vietnamese. It’s a "tight rope” act. Yes, as a whole the Jews rejected Jesus, but in today’s climate we have to choose our words wisely. If “christian” preachers use expressions like “the Jews killed Jesus”,.... nowadays it could stir up more hatred and prejudice. While we don’t water down the truth. But we do present it in a balanced, and responsible way.

I can understand the interest. In a balanced way. It was the case of the century. Big star, double murder, mysterious (to some), besides isn’t this forum called : “secular news”? Different people with different interest.

Problem is the Worlds solution is to just make all things equal based on color or ethnicity. That’s why they want racial representation in everything rather than putting the emphasis on the individual and qualifications. At first glance, it seems right and good.....but it’s not on the second glance. Unfortunately some bite and run with it even in our organization. They start seeing color as important. We have a wonderful sister here....very faithful etc..... However when I go to her home for the field ministry meeting I noticed she has a picture of Michelle Obama on her refrigerator. That’s the influence I’m talking about on full display.

When you hear others say there should be GB representing differing ethnicities and colors etc.... they are mirroring what the world has constantly been saying about worldly organizations and political offices. Because that is how they view people....it’s the; "My people", "your people" mentality. That kind of thinking is understandable in the world.....but it has no place here. When you see someone of your own color in the GB does it makes you feel good? Viewing things from that perspective seems bias in itself. It starts with the premise that we’re divided, and each one (ethnicity) needs representation to be fair. Would their color make them more trustworthy on the GB ? Or will they care more about you than someone of a different color? This “woke” ideology is spreading and it ain’t pretty.

Ethnicity or color has nothing to do with choosing a member of the GB. They either qualify or do not qualify. Skin color should not even be mentioned as a qualification. That’s the world influence to judge everything by color and ethinicy....trying to make everything even Steven. That’s not how it works. It’s the inner person not the outside that counts. Satan in an effort to divide us fills our heads full of distorted views. Many jump right on the bandwagon. This another “woke” influence....all under the guise of fair and equal. Another one of Satan’s crafty machinations, trying to influence our organization. If an ethic group is not represented on the GB, it means no one in that group has qualified. Talk to Jehovah about that. Unless you think the GB is bias against certain ethic groups. It's one or the other. I think it’s the first reason. No one qualified.

That reminds me of the man that walked up to a Jew and slapped him in the face. The Jew. said; "Why did you do that?" The man said: “You people murdered my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ”. The Jew complained: “that was over 2000 years ago!!!" The man surprised, replied: “Well,......I just heard about it yesterday”.