JW Parents take their sick boy from hospital

[Luca]

Simon - Did you watch the program?

[Cool Cat]

Simon - Did you watch the program?

Yes

[Luca]

Did you get the impression that the doctors and nurses were liars?

[trottigy]

Let's try to at least sound like reasonable people brothers and sisters having a discussion rather than an argument, eh.

 

That would sound more like - I see your point is ..... , but I disagree for these reasons ....

 

"Seek first to understand  THEN to be understood." Stephen Covey  

[palmhat]

I haven't berated anybody. I have tried to add some facts to a discussion that was unfairly criticising skilled and dedicated doctors and nurses.

 

Christopher, Please,... my statement was not directed at you personally. You'll note that I didn't quote you and purposely worked to direct my comment towards the entire thread and... a caution necessary for myself in particular. We have had some threads get so heated that the moderators have had to close the topic. We can do better than that. When things start to polarize & divide us it is probably a good idea to take a deep breath and reflect on how to gain our brothers, our neighbors, and any one watching. Where is the benefit of our palaver? While your comment was aimed at bringing balance to the discussion, I dreaded a comment aimed to balance your statement which , in turn could easily have contributed to an escalation undesirable to all. I do apologize. and thank you for being involved.

Edited April 15, 2015 by palmhat

[seagull]

I know from speaking with those who have direct involvement with Brother King that there is a strong difference of opinion over what was said by the specialists in regard to the possibility of making Ashya a ward of court or any independant, specialist second opinion on the relative merits of chemo/x-ray versus solely proton beam therapy.  However, the only people who really know what was said and how it was phrased are those present at the time.  It's impossible for any of us here to say one or other of the parties is out and out lying or retro fitting a story.  Neither viewpoint/opinion as expressed through the media is necessarily wrong.  It's down to perception, recollection and skewed by an individual take on the situation.  This, as a general fact of life, is well known.

 

What is 100% clear is that the King's did not agree with the long term treatment plan recommended by the hospital and was so concerned that this might be forced on Ashya through legal means that they did what they did.  His (Brother King's) perception of this risk, whatever the actual likelihood of this happening, was his reality and the decisions made were based on this.

 

Of course, as fellow Witnesses, it is only natural to trust our brothers.  This does not mean that automatically everything they say and do is 100% right.  I am not making any judgement on the Kings' actions, simply saying that whilst we have confidence in our spiritual family and think the best of them, we are under no obligation to consider everything said and done by them has to be supported without question.  There is also no basis on which to suggest that medical staff are all a bunch of backside covering liars just because they disagree with a method of treatment preferred by a fellow Witness.

 

Frankly this is all water under the bridge.  Ashya did get the treatment preferred by his parents.  How far it has gone in mirroring the scope of the treatment plan recommended by the hospital is unknown since this is not a matter of public record.  Brother King claims the cancer has been cured.  Whilst this sounds good news given that the next five years would appear to be a critical indicator of long term success and the consensus of the specialist clinicians would not presume one is cured until 10 years of remission have passed then, as outsiders, it would seem wise to simply wait and see.

 

None of this prejudices our ability to wish Ashya and his family the best and support them through our good will and prayers.

Edited April 15, 2015 by seagull

[Cool Cat]

Did you get the impression that the doctors and nurses were liars?

No, but then again it was a documentary carefully prepared by the doctors, nurses and carers from the NHS. It is possible that not everything was how they said it was. You were stating things as facts as if the documentary was the truth, I could see your point if I knew it was but I don't know how you could know that and confidently assert that "no threat was made to the Kings".

I believe the truth as it usually does lies somewhere in the middle and the breakdown in communication was a result of something that was said. I feel we need to be careful not to watch a documentary on particularly British TV and then believe every word as if it is the truth. Especially when the main participants have a vested interest in how things are portrayed.

It is clear communication broke down, it is also evident that the Kings were unhappy with something the doctors said. I wasn't there and neither was anybody else on this forum so I feel it is safer to not state things as facts and label anybody liars and have an open mind to what may have caused the breakdown in communication.

[Fiona]

I know from experience. Drs tend to not listen. I had to research for hours all night put it in a concise document and then humbly present it and ask them to read it and then ask to meet them again in order to answer my questions regarding it. Drs put you in a box and stick you on standard treatment. Rather than treat you as an individual and take your preferences into account.

The Kings said they tried talking to the drs about proton beam. And the Drs said don't bring it up again we will not discuss it.

I would have been out of there in a second.

[pnutts]

 

It is more common than you think for some doctors to use threats if they do not like the stance of a parent.

I had this experience just end of March. It was a junior cardiac resident - his bedside manners needs to be improved.

My late daughter-in-law ( not a witness ) was badgered by a doctor until she gave in to allowing a blood transfusion.

It shut her kidneys down immediately. She existed for 2 1/2 years - I won't dignify it by calling it living.

The month earlier, that same doctor had been told by his superior, whose patient she was, Not to give a transfusion under any circumstance.

He didn't listen a month later - never contacted his superior at all.

[AH173]

It took all night to just read posts and appreciate a few points.

1) Give brothers the benefit of the doubt.

2) We parents love and want the best care for our children.

3) As parents try to best of ability to familiarize with medical ailment /situation and possible treatments.

4) Respect medical providers

5) Pray and work for the unity of our whole association of worldwide brothers

6) Trust that Jehovah will bless our efforts when we take his will/principles to heart and implement them in our individual cases.

Let's close ranks and support our brothers and look forward to kingdom rule on earth soon! ☺

[palmhat]

It took all night to just read posts and appreciate a few points.

1) Give brothers the benefit of the doubt.

2) We parents love and want the best care for our children.

3) As parents try to best of ability to familiarize with medical ailment /situation and possible treatments.

4) Respect medical providers

5) Pray and work for the unity of our whole association of worldwide brothers

6) Trust that Jehovah will bless our efforts when we take his will/principles to heart and implement them in our individual cases.

Let's close ranks and support our brothers and look forward to kingdom rule on earth soon! ☺

That is beautiful! Now, as Jehovah's ways are higher than our ways, (Isa 55:8-10), what scriptures would these truths be supported by?

[palmhat]

#1. "Give your brother the benefit of the doubt"

Romans 14:10.

But why do you judge your brother?+ Or why do you also look down on your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.

[stuagu]

Can't believe this thread is still goin.

[seagull]

Can't believe this thread is still goin.

 

Bit like the beard thread...