How important is it to 'get it right'?

[minister159]

I'm unable to edit my post now, but I realized after I posted that the next to last sentence should read, and "I am or He/She is one of Jehovah's Witnesses," in the singular form.

 

Just in case any one caught the mistake and wanted to bring it to my attention, I thought it was important to 'get it right.' 

[Raindrop]

So many interesting things here ...

At the same time, I feel discouraged! English is such a hard language ... just way too many rules and sorry but there is not always a logic to it.

It is just hard to find easy ways to remember

I taught myself English and remember crying so much over it! If it was not a necessity, I would have never learned it.

Sorry for the mistakes that must drive some crazy ...

Wish there was someone to correct me when I first learned. With time, it gets even harder to get rid of what is wrong!

[RaymondG]

That's so true, Hasina...

But other languages have their traps as well. For instance, the assignment of genders to various inanimate things in some language is a difficulty we generally don't have in English.

Of course, if it gets you down you could always move to Quebec where there are no signs in English.

[RaymondG]

'Loan', 'lend' and 'borrow'...

Some people will say, "I will loan you $40." Wrong.

Some people say, "Will you loan me $40?" Wrong.

So too are "Can I loan $40 from you?" and "Do you want me to loan you $40?"

However, "Do you want me to give you a $40 loan?" is correct.

You can borrow money or things, that is to use someone else's property for a time. You can lend money or things to other people.

The corrected statements from above would be:

"I will lend you $40." "Will you lend me $40?" "Can I borrow $40 from you?" and "Do you want me to lend you $40?"

Alternative, you could live by the old adage:

"Let no borrower or lender be..." - in which case there would be no loans at all!

.

Edited April 29, 2015 by RaymondG

[boodles]

 

Some people will say, "I will loan you $40." Wrong.

Some people say, "Will you loan me $40?" Wrong.

So too are "Can I loan $40 from you?" and "Do you want me to loan you $40?"

 

Not sure how this is wrong. Seems like 'loan' can be a verb, as well as a noun.

 

I just looked it up. This page says that it is accepted in American and Australian English. I didn't realize it was different in Britain.

 

http://grammar.about.com/od/alightersideofwriting/a/lendloan.htm

[kejedo]

Yes, Loraine, in North American grammar,  loan can be a verb when it comes to money, art, or other physical things, but mostly you will see it in money or banking situations. Therefore, "I will loan you forty dollars," is correct. "Will you loan me forty dollars," is also correct.  "Do you want me to loan you forty dollars," is correct again. It is preferable to write out the number in words. In North American English, the comma is always before the ending quotation mark, which is sometimes counter intuitive to the meaning of the sentence. Not always so in British English. So if you catch an American TV court show, you will hear the word loan frequently used as a verb. (I just retired from teaching one month ago.) http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/loan-versus-lend?page=1

[kejedo]

"Neither a borrower nor a lender be." (Shakespeare's Hamlet - Polonius giving advice.) Yes, English is very difficult, and it is not necessary to get it correctly every time in order to be understood. Formal written English is different as is spoken Chinese different from written Chinese (except Mandarin). Almost all Chinese language speakers read Mandarin(ese), except Mongolia, which uses the Cyrillic Alphabet. Please add any additional information if my understanding is incorrect. Our language app uses simplified Mandarin. I spoke to a woman in Cantonese yesterday and she was tickled that I could speak a little Chinese. Of course, we try to get it correctly. We are all still learning, especially with languages. I have picked up a smattering of a number of languages. I would like to become a polyglot. It is fascinating to hear a new language and realize that Jehovah hears prayers from all over the world. The pure language can be spoken in any tongue; of that I am truly grateful    p.s. two commas in the preceding post should be question marks, but I was unable to edit

Edited April 30, 2015 by kejedo

[RaymondG]

Am I shot down on this one?

Ah well, it got people thinking. And maybe if I was a Pom I'd have been right?

[Raindrop]

Of course, if it gets you down you could always move to Quebec where there are no signs in English.

Not sure if I got what you mean? ...

 

May be just on a side note: I do speak French but that is not my mother tongue.  The reason I speak/read/write it, is because my schooling was entirely in French.

Moving to Quebec is not an option since the French group here (where i am ) needs support and I feel blessed to work where you need to speak 100% French, and where French is valuable.

 

I can appreciate it when people get irritated when mistakes are made or when the sentence is phrased in a way that makes it hard to understand (some would say "butchering" the language?). However, having had to learn different languages and making mistakes myself, I can only be tolerant toward anyone else.

 

Now the funny thing is: people hardly corrected me when I first learned English, so the mistakes became entrenched. (In another language that I learned, one person kept on correcting me and it helped a lot in the sense that wrong things did not stay in my brain)

Now people correct me (with my English) because it has been a while since I first learned according to them - but I keep on making the same mistakes ... it is a whole lot harder to get rid of the wrong stuff once they are in!

 

By the way is my English worth at least a 5 out of 10 or is it really bad?

Edited because the question should have been: Is my English worth a 5 out of 10 or is it worst?

Edited April 30, 2015 by Raindrop

[JSmith]

Funny

When someone asks us a question, we might say "it depends".

My best friend growing up would always say: "it pretends".

I would always say "pretends to be what?". That always confused him.

[Toy Poodles]

Not sure if I got what you mean? ...

 

May be just on a side note: I do speak French but that is not my mother tongue.  The reason I speak/read/write it, is because my schooling was entirely in French.

Moving to Quebec is not an option since the French group here (where i am ) needs support and I feel blessed to work where you need to speak 100% French, and where French is valuable.

 

I can appreciate it when people get irritated when mistakes are made or when the sentence is phrased in a way that makes it hard to understand (some would say "butchering" the language?). However, having had to learn different languages and making mistakes myself, I can only be tolerant toward anyone else.

 

Now the funny thing is: people hardly corrected me when I first learned English, so the mistakes became entrenched. (In another language that I learned, one person kept on correcting me and it helped a lot in the sense that wrong things did not stay in my brain)

Now people correct me (with my English) because it has been a while since I first learned according to them - but I keep on making the same mistakes ... it is a whole lot harder to get rid of the wrong stuff once they are in!

 

By the way is my English worth at least a 5 out of 10 or is it really bad?

Edited because the question should have been: Is my English worth a 5 out of 10 or is it worst?

 

I think your English is fine, I don't see anything wrong with it but I am just an average English speaker and am not a teacher or anything like that. 

[kejedo]

Not sure if I got what you mean? ...

 

May be just on a side note: I do speak French but that is not my mother tongue.  The reason I speak/read/write it, is because my schooling was entirely in French.

Moving to Quebec is not an option since the French group here (where i am ) needs support and I feel blessed to work where you need to speak 100% French, and where French is valuable.

 

I can appreciate it when people get irritated when mistakes are made or when the sentence is phrased in a way that makes it hard to understand (some would say "butchering" the language?). However, having had to learn different languages and making mistakes myself, I can only be tolerant toward anyone else.

 

Now the funny thing is: people hardly corrected me when I first learned English, so the mistakes became entrenched. (In another language that I learned, one person kept on correcting me and it helped a lot in the sense that wrong things did not stay in my brain)

Now people correct me (with my English) because it has been a while since I first learned according to them - but I keep on making the same mistakes ... it is a whole lot harder to get rid of the wrong stuff once they are in!

 

By the way is my English worth at least a 5 out of 10 or is it really bad?

Edited because the question should have been: Is my English worth a 5 out of 10 or is it worst?

Sister Hasina, I love your English. 10 out of 10 plus E for effort.

[kejedo]

Funny

When someone asks us a question, we might say "it depends".

My best friend growing up would always say: "it pretends".

I would always say "pretends to be what?". That always confused him.

A sister was making fun of a teenage boy, in Service, a few years ago. Here's the conversation: Young brother: Did I axe that question correctly to the householder? Pioneer Sister: Ha Ha Ha, axe! Are you going to axe  me something? Like chop my head off with a hatchet?" (Makes cutting signs at her neck.) This dear Sis likes to correct people. However, she was incorrect. The verb for inquire can correctly be expressed by ask, axe, or even spelled aks. The words co-developed and both 'axe' and 'ask' are used approximately 50/50 both in England and in N. America.P.S. The young brother is now a Bethelite and the Sister still likes to correct people, whether or not she is correct. We all make mistakes. I try to research for self-correction. https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=A0LEV0PvfUJVR60A1Z1XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTByMjB0aG5zBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw--?qid=20070714005628AAR1P8a

Edited April 30, 2015 by kejedo

[Raindrop]

Sister Hasina, I love your English. 10 out of 10 plus E for effort.

That is really kind of you...

Syntax, prepositions (linking words?) are my weaknesses though.

I read you are a teacher! I am an early childhood educator (working in French) with 4-6 y.o

[Raindrop]

Oh this is another thing: there are words I do not dare to say because I don't pronounce them properly...

Two are: beach and sheet. Instead I say the bad words. So usually,it would be instead: walking along the shore or use a page of paper (so I don't have to say the word).With my accent, there is no difference between the sound e in ea, ee and i like in sister and dishwasher. I know they are supposed to sound different, just cannot make the sound!!!

[RaymondG]

Hasina, I agree with Pauline, 10 out of 10 plus an E for effort...

However, I will point out that you suggest 'or worst' where it should be (if you were to use it) 'or worse'.

Don't worry about 'beach' and 'sheet' so much, New Zilenders do that all the time. One way to do it might be to say 'bee-e-ach' or 'shee-e-et' for a while.

And remember, one of the reasons for this thread is so we can have a bit of fun.

[carlos]

Oh this is another thing: there are words I do not dare to say because I don't pronounce them properly...

Two are: beach and sheet. Instead I say the bad words. So usually,it would be instead: walking along the shore or use a page of paper (so I don't have to say the word).With my accent, there is no difference between the sound e in ea, ee and i like in sister and dishwasher. I know they are supposed to sound different, just cannot make the sound!!!

 

Hasina, I had the same problem with long and short vowels in English because they do not exist in my language either. Once I was in Ireland and needed some paper so I went to the shop and asked for 100 sheets... only I used a short i instead. I could not understand why they gave me those looks.

 

This suggestion was useful for me: When you want to say 'beach' or 'sheet', say the ee sound twice, like 'bee-each' or 'she-eat'. That way it will be long and no one will confuse it with the short versions.

Edited May 2, 2015 by cvillarrubia

[Raindrop]

I think your English is fine, I don't see anything wrong with it but I am just an average English speaker and am not a teacher or anything like that. 

Thank you Deena. You are kind

I guess as long as we can get our point across, it is the main objective of communication. It is not always obvious though if we actually did get it across!

But in this forum, though misunderstanding can happen quickly, because what we "say" is written, there is an opportunity to re-read oneself or others and address any misunderstanding.

[Raindrop]

Hasina, I agree with Pauline, 10 out of 10 plus an E for effort...

However, I will point out that you suggest 'or worst' where it should be (if you were to use it) 'or worse'.

Don't worry about 'beach' and 'sheet' so much, New Zilenders do that all the time. One way to do it might be to say 'bee-e-ach' or 'shee-e-et' for a while.

And remember, one of the reasons for this thread is so we can have a bit of fun.

Thank you for that! Just realized that it is possible, I have used worse and worst in the wrong way up to now... Took a time to find the difference and wondering: Is it worse because it is in comparison to 5? In my head, 5 was bad enough so anything lower would be "worst" but thinking back 1 is worst but 4 is only worse than 5. Correct?

 

Will practice my "e"s ... However, when does the "e" sound short and when are they long?

 

 

And remember, one of the reasons for this thread is so we can have a bit of fun.

With my young ones at work, this applies all the time. They don't realize we learn while playing.

When I learn though, it is only fun when I "get it". Until then ... that is another story!

[Raindrop]

Hasina, I had the same problem with long and short vowels in English because they do not exist in my language either. Once I was in Ireland and needed some paper so I went to the shop and asked for 100 sheets... only I used a short i instead. I could not understand why they gave me those looks.

 

This suggestion was useful for me: When you want to say 'beach' or 'sheet', say the i sound twice, like 'bee-each' or 'she-eat'. That way it will be long and no one will confuse it with the short versions.

:D

When someone first pointed it out to me, she told me: say that again?

So I said it again and she laughed.

Thankfully she told me what was so funny

[RaymondG]

Originally posted by Raindrop

Thank you for that! Just realized that it is possible, I have used worse and worst in the wrong way up to now... Took a time to find the difference and wondering: Is it worse because it is in comparison to 5? In my head, 5 was bad enough so anything lower would be "worst" but thinking back 1 is worst but 4 is only worse than 5. Correct?

I don't understand the numbering, but I will give examples and explanations:

"Boys are worse than girls at cleaning their rooms."

"Teenage boys are the worst at cleaning their rooms."

'Worse' compares one with the other, 'worst' defines which is worse to the greatest extent.

In expressions, you can 'think the worst' of someone. Or you might be feeling a little 'worse for wear'.

.....Will practice my "e"s ... However, when does the "e" sound short and when are they long?

I think answering that one is 'mission impossible'... there are so many different times...

Generally when you have a long 'e' there is a double 'e' or an 'ea', but that's not always true. You also get a long 'e' when there's another 'e' past the next letter. For instance in 'gene'.

[kejedo]

I don't understand the numbering, but I will give examples and explanations:

"Boys are worse than girls at cleaning their rooms."

"Teenage boys are the worst at cleaning their rooms."

'Worse' compares one with the other, 'worst' defines which is worse to the greatest extent.

In expressions, you can 'think the worst' of someone. Or you might be feeling a little 'worse for wear'.

I think answering that one is 'mission impossible'... there are so many different times...

Generally when you have a long 'e' there is a double 'e' or an 'ea', but that's not always true. You also get a long 'e' when there's another 'e' past the next letter. For instance in 'gene'.

Monday's weather was bad; Tuesday's was worse; Wednesday's was worst. (Positive, comparative, and superlative degrees)

[ReadYourBible]

http://ed.ted.com/lessons/comma-story-terisa-folaron#review

 

I found this to contribute. While my command of the English language is fairly strong, there are times when I find it difficult to know when and where a comma may be needed. 

 

 

 

 

[ReadYourBible]

A brother I know also posted this, which I think lends support to the thought the OP is trying to express.  I liked how this brother put it so eloquently and thought I'd share.

 

Lesson for today. (Eph 4:29) WORDS are powerful tools of communication. But in order for our words to accomplish a specific purpose, we need to choose them carefully.

 

A word that may be appropriate on one occasion may have the wrong effect when circumstances are different. Improperly used, a colorful expression may become “a word causing pain.” Use of such expressions may simply be thoughtless, reflecting a lack of consideration.

 

Some terms have a double meaning, one of which is offensive or belittling. On the other hand, “the good word”—a word that imparts encouragement—brings joy to the heart of the one to whom it is spoken.

 

Finding the right words requires effort, even for a wise person. Of course, many people who are not true Christians use language that is rude and vulgar. They may feel that rough language adds emphasis to what they say. Or their use of it may simply reflect a woefully deficient vocabulary. 

 

If someone habitually used such speech before learning Jehovah’s ways, he may find that it is difficult to break the habit. Yet, it is possible. God’s spirit can help a person change speech patterns. However, the individual must also be willing to build a vocabulary filled with good words—words that impart what is favorable, words that build up—and then use these regularly. Our purpose in enlarging our vocabulary is to inform, not to make an impression on our listeners.

 

Complex speech and long words tend to draw attention to the speaker. Our desire should be to share valuable information and to make it interesting for those who hear it. Remember the Bible proverb: “The tongue of wise ones does good with knowledge.” (Prov. 15:2)

 

The use of good words, fitting words that are easily understood, helps make our speech refreshing and stimulating rather than dull and uninteresting. As you enlarge your vocabulary, think not only of new words but also of words that have particular characteristics.

 

Consider, for instance, verbs that express vigor; adjectives that convey color; and expressions that show warmth, have a note of kindness, or convey earnestness. http://m.wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102001093…

[RaymondG]

A nice upbuilding post, thanks Sharon...