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Could this help open the mind of an Agnostic or even an Atheist?


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Somewhere on this forum was posted an article A LINGUISTIC ARGUMENT FOR GOD’S EXISTENCE by R. BAUMGARDNER AND JEREMY D. LYON.  It was quite an interesting read and  I managed to glean a few similar arguments, though in all honesty a lot of it went over my head.  But it uses the idea of language proving the existence of God. Mathematics, being in itself a language also, was a part of his argument, along with DNA and other natural languages.

 

Neil, I found your arguments very logical and a lot simpler to try to explain.  It's a very interesting research project!

 


 

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2 minutes ago, Pjdriver said:

Outstanding Neil! I love it. Can I steal it and use it?

It's  a powerful argument to the reasonable mind.  :thumbsup:

 

How can you steal it if I have already stole it :touche:LOL

Yes very powerful reasoning. Just brilliant !

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11 hours ago, Gregexplore said:

How can you steal it if I have already stole it :touche:LOL

Yes very powerful reasoning. Just brilliant !

Ongaurd! Hand it over, explorer!  :touche:

 

It it a good thing we evolved a brain so we could do the math.

Edited by Pjdriver
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This is sound reasoning, Neil. Since there are natural laws, who set those laws? Ultimately it's the same argument of order and design requiring an intelligent designer. A related argument I read once is why are we humans able to understand the natural laws. If we appeared only by chance, the universe doesn't need to work in a way that is logical or comprehensible to our mind. And yet, we can formulate equations to describe any natural process in the universe. That strongly hints that our mind was designed by the same intelligence who established those natural laws.

 

After many years of reading all kinds of philosophical arguments for the existence of God, I came to the conclusion that most people don't really need those. Few people actually argue that there is no Creator. Most of those who deny God's existence are just repeating what they have been taught or they have trouble harmonizing the existence of suffering and wickedness with a loving and almighty God. When presented with a simple arguments such as "if I told you this table made itself or simply appeared by chance, what would you think of my mental health?" most backpedal and admit there's possibly an intelligent Creator. Many who call themselves Atheistsimply don't believe in organized religion or in the Bible. So in most cases I just resort to that simple argument when discussing with people.

 

However, for a small group of intellectual or philosophy-oriented people such arguments could actually help them at least to consider the existence of a Creator.

 

Edited by carlos
The gremlins duplicated the text.
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12 hours ago, carlos said:

 

 Most of those who deny God's existence are just repeating what they have been taught or they have trouble harmonizing the existence of suffering and wickedness with a loving and almighty God. When presented with a simple arguments such as "if I told you this table made itself or simply appeared by chance, what would you think of my mental health?" most backpedal and admit there's possibly an intelligent Creator. Many who call themselves Atheistsimply don't believe in organized religion or in the Bible. So in most cases I just resort to that simple argument when discussing with people.

I read something  in the book "The edge of Evolution" I thought was a good reply when a so-called atheist brings up wickedness, suffering, or the hypocrisy of false religion as an argument for his  evolutionary views. 

This is the gist of what it said:

'Regardless of our opinion of the designer and his character,...whether one thinks life was a worthwhile project or not...wether the designer of life was incompetent, a dope or a demon or a deity----thats a topic on which opinions have differed greatly over thousands of years. Of the many possible opinions only one is indefensible,...the one held by Darwin. Denying design simply because there is pain and hypocrisy exist in the world is a failure to look the Universe fully in the face.'

 

Evidence of design and people's opinions of the Designer  are not inextricable topics.

Just because we don't like the architectural design of a house has nothing to do with the fact that it had a Designer

Edited by Pjdriver
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  • 2 weeks later...

Brother Neil,

 

Here are two arguments, one reasoning  against creation/God and the other reasons for creation/God"

 

Against:  https://nathandickey.wordpress.com/2015/06/28/countering-theist-apologetics-the-first-cause-argument/

 

For  http://factsandfaith.com/gods-existence-best-explains-the-necessity-of-an-uncaused-cause/

 

I hope this helps all to understand how skeptics think.

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Do they think?

 

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

 

On the positive side, I see a lot of sense in using reasoning to discuss things to do with Jehovah, creation, the bible itself and Jehovah's upcoming kingdom.

 

For instance, when we look at Genesis 1:27 & 28 we see what Jehovah's purpose is. Genesis 1:1 says that Jehovah had the power to create all these things and in Isaiah 40:26 as well as Romans 1:20 underline all of that.

 

The reasoning is, "If you had all the power to create all things, and your purpose was to see the human family populate and transform the earth into a beautiful garden, would yougive up simply because a few of your creation fail?"

 

 And when someone tries to say that Jesus is God, a similar argument can be made with Job 1:6 and 2:1 compared with the Luke account of the temptation of Jesus. "Do not the passages in Job show that Satan knows the players in the act, who everyone is? If Satan knew that God himself was Jesus, would he bother trying to tempt him with things He already owns?"

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Neil,

 

   I think you have a number of good arguments that you present. In the end almost all con-

vincing arguments that I have read are arguments from design and the demonstration of

the impossibility of chance to produce the same result. "Like a legion of monkeys typing

endlessly would eventually produce the works of Shakespeare. " To any who have struggled

for faith, the first realizations of these truths is like  the windows of the universe opening

and the arrival of a new day. My best wishes in your efforts in that regard Neil.

 

GStorrs46

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