A Ludicrous Situation :?

[Hallett 82]

HEADLINES:

The Greek election today will decide if the worlds economy will rise or fail . . . ?

Election decider for the whole world?

Remember folks . . this is the country that has spent beyond its budget for decades . . borrowed way over its head and ability to repay . . made a national passtime of Tax Evasion and prides itself on early retirement and pensions the like no other country would ever consider fair or socially sustainable.

Now they have to be reigned in with severe austerity measures . . and their election going on today will decide if the whole worlds economy will crash into the dirt . . tomorrow.

It will all unfold in the next 24hrs. . .

Your thoughts. . .

[Shawnster]

Let it fall. Bring it!

The sooner this ends the better.

[Simon17]

Let it fall. Bring it!

The sooner this ends the better.

Shouldnt you be rooting for the opposite? Peace & Security is the next milestone.

[Shawnster]

Let it fall. Bring it!

The sooner this ends the better.

Shouldnt you be rooting for the opposite? Peace & Security is the next milestone.

Im rooting for any reason that causes the UN to become 8th king.

[ava]

Let it fall. Bring it!

The sooner this ends the better.

Shouldnt you be rooting for the opposite? Peace & Security is the next milestone.

Humans will never bring peace and security, only Jehovah can bring that.

As the Sept Study article says, posted on JW.org couple days ago:

"Just before the Day Of Jehovah begins, world leaders will be saying Peace and Security. This may refer to one event or a series of events. Nations may think they are close to solving some of their big problems."

Many in the world are speculating that if Europe's Economy falls, then the world leaders will have to step in to bring about security to the world economy.

Granted, we do not know how this is all gonna play out, but we do know that the World Leaders will never have true peace and security. So when they say that, as the article states, they may think they are close to solving their problems, not that they have solved them.

[Hallett 82]

. . . As the Sept Study article says, posted on JW.org couple days ag

"Just before the Day Of Jehovah begins, world leaders will be saying Peace and Security. This may refer to one event or a series of events. Nations may think they are close to solving some of their big problems."

Many in the world are speculating that if Europe's Economy falls, then the world leaders will have to step in to bring about security to the world economy.

Granted, we do not know how this is all gonna play out, but we do know that the World Leaders will never have true peace and security. So when they say that, as the article states, they may think they are close to solving their problems, not that they have solved them.

The cry of Peace & Security will be the last lie they are allowed to proclaim. This problem (Globalization of mega-business) and the imminent collapse of the worlds economy was forseeable in the 1970s when the oil crisis occurred and we saw manufacturing jobs go oversees to India & China where wages were negligable. When the powerful Western countries earned wages high enough to pay for western style housing etc. there was no matching the business benefits of having shoes & sheets made by workers earning $20 per month.

It now beggars belief that the people doing the 'economic modelling' did not see this coming. It is a humiliation to those who stand by this sick old system as worth saving. I have not heard a single word of confidence by any world leader yet . . . and Greek voters will decide how this all unfolds.

The killing of Arch Duke Ferdinand that kicked off WW1 was a stupid trigger to mass death. . . we are now watching it all over again. Mankind has learned nothing from history.

[Bro.David Drake DeLaurento]

. . . As the Sept Study article says, posted on JW.org couple days ag

"Just before the Day Of Jehovah begins, world leaders will be saying Peace and Security. This may refer to one event or a series of events. Nations may think they are close to solving some of their big problems."

Many in the world are speculating that if Europe's Economy falls, then the world leaders will have to step in to bring about security to the world economy.

Granted, we do not know how this is all gonna play out, but we do know that the World Leaders will never have true peace and security. So when they say that, as the article states, they may think they are close to solving their problems, not that they have solved them.

The cry of Peace & Security will be the last lie they are allowed to proclaim. This problem (Globalization of mega-business) and the imminent collapse of the worlds economy was forseeable in the 1970s when the oil crisis occurred and we saw manufacturing jobs go oversees to India & China where wages were negligable. When the powerful Western countries earned wages high enough to pay for western style housing etc. there was no matching the business benefits of having shoes & sheets made by workers earning $20 per month.

It now beggars belief that the people doing the 'economic modelling' did not see this coming. It is a humiliation to those who stand by this sick old system as worth saving. I have not heard a single word of confidence by any world leader yet . . . and Greek voters will decide how this all unfolds.

The killing of Arch Duke Ferdinand that kicked off WW1 was a stupid trigger to mass death. . . we are now watching it all over again. Mankind has learned nothing from history.

Good insight y'all.

[retroHelen]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18481714#

BBC Reporter Gavin Hewitt:"Greece's place in the eurozone is looking a little more secure after elections ended with the centre-right New Democracy party claiming victory. The Pro-Europe Democratic unity party is headed by Antonis Samaras and says he will accept the austerity measures to get a bailout.

After a close race, in the second election in six weeks, the anti-bailout (pushing Greece out of the Euro) Syriza party was edged into second place".

Many problems face Greece now as schools have run out of supplies.Hospitals can only open one day a week and staff work unpaid and many medicines have run out. Many people have no money and go hungry.

Now we await the results of the Egyptian elections where many there feel they have no real choice and their 'Arab Spring Revolution' was a waste of time and are not voting for the poor choice of either members of the old regime or Islamists. Those who declare themselves Christian await results fearfully.

[campanula]

. . we are now watching it all over again. Mankind has learned nothing from history.

I may add that mankind has learned nothing from anything...

[Bro.David Drake DeLaurento]

It's interesting how when this system almost slips into chaos, its manages to tread above water. Little by little a "no confidence" vote will finally emerge and martial law will be enacted world wide. All the nations are lining up to fall like a dominoe effect. I can't help but to be reminded how the nations prior to 1914 were lined up as well before that fatal shot was heared around the world. Lets be reminded what happened in Nazi Germany and in the U.S. In many aspects it's like Deja vu in the current circumstances we live in. I'm waiting for the figurtive shot to happen now.

[nikviz]

Many problems face Greece now as schools have run out of supplies*. Hospitals can only open one day a week* and staff work unpaid and many medicines have run out*. Many people have no money and go hungry.

Excesses of journalists.

Many problems face Greece now as schools have run out of supplies (By mistake last September delayed delivery of some books for a few days). Hospitals can only open one day a week (Yesterday we went my second daughter in the hospital - she is still in hospital) and staff work unpaid and many medicines have run out (The pharmacists lobby blackmails the government to not changing the huge profit margins). Many people have no money (this is the only true) and go hungry.

This does not change the frank statement found at Ecclesiastes 8:9 "man has dominated man to his injury", and only the Kingdom will solve the real problems of humanity.

My comment in other post is this (Luke 21:28) 28 But as these things start to occur, raise yourselves erect and lift YOUR heads up, because YOUR deliverance is getting near.”

[retroHelen]

Many problems face Greece now as schools have run out of supplies*. Hospitals can only open one day a week* and staff work unpaid and many medicines have run out*. Many people have no money and go hungry.

Excesses of journalists.

Many problems face Greece now as schools have run out of supplies (By mistake last September delayed delivery of some books for a few days). Hospitals can only open one day a week (Yesterday we went my second daughter in the hospital - she is still in hospital) and staff work unpaid and many medicines have run out (The pharmacists lobby blackmails the government to not changing the huge profit margins). Many people have no money (this is the only true) and go hungry.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18412179

"Greek Hospitals run out of medicines and the £16m European funded hospital outside Athens is mostly closed because staff are not paid,said the Hospital Medical Director Dr Stratis Komunakis to BBC reporter Andrew Bamford........"

This was where I got the information - So you are saying that the pharmacists and hospital administrators around Athens are lying or misleading the reporter, because, as you will hear if you can get this link, he was only reporting what they were saying?

Perhaps your area is yet unaffected, but around Athens it seems a different scenario because so many homeless, immigrants and unemployed gather into main cities and are often needing treatment, - which is actually not uncommon anywhere in the World's cities. Even UK city hospitals struggle to meet demands within their budget because of these extra 'city problems'. Perhaps if this is the case then BBC's Andrew Bamford needs to travel out of Athens area.

[retroHelen]

We travelled around the Greek mainland in 1984. Beautiful country.

,

We stayed for a few days near Glyfada, outside Athens, and saw the Witnesses there. How is the ministry in Greece now? It was restricted back then and the brothers could only stand for hours holding up magazines and could not go from door-to-door. We approached them to speak to them and were followed across the street and intimidated by a group of Orthodox priests who were watching for people approaching our brothers, so they could put them off. The brothers however, had chosen to stand outside the US Military barracks and the guards invited us all in just beyond the main gate, away from the priests, so that we could talk. This kind of intimidation of the brothers was apparently common, that's why they liked standing outside the US Barracks because they got help and protection there.

We met one of the young guards on another day, around Glyfada's shopping area, in his civilian clothes and he said how he admired the brothers' endurance in the heat and in the face of the regular opposition from the 'menacing gang of young black-robed priests'. He took the English magazines from the brothers whenever he was on guard duty at that gate.

[nikviz]

Many problems face Greece now as schools have run out of supplies*. Hospitals can only open one day a week* and staff work unpaid and many medicines have run out*. Many people have no money and go hungry.

Excesses of journalists.

Many problems face Greece now as schools have run out of supplies (By mistake last September delayed delivery of some books for a few days). Hospitals can only open one day a week (Yesterday we went my second daughter in the hospital - she is still in hospital) and staff work unpaid and many medicines have run out (The pharmacists lobby blackmails the government to not changing the huge profit margins). Many people have no money (this is the only true) and go hungry.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18412179

"Greek Hospitals run out of medicines and the £16m European funded hospital outside Athens is mostly closed because staff are not paid,said the Hospital Medical Director Dr Stratis Komunakis to BBC reporter Andrew Bamford........"

This was where I got the information - So you are saying that the pharmacists and hospital administrators around Athens are lying or misleading the reporter, because, as you will hear if you can get this link, he was only reporting what they were saying?

Perhaps your area is yet unaffected, but around Athens it seems a different scenario because so many homeless, immigrants and unemployed gather into main cities and are often needing treatment, - which is actually not uncommon anywhere in the World's cities. Even UK city hospitals struggle to meet demands within their budget because of these extra 'city problems'. Perhaps if this is the case then BBC's Andrew Bamford needs to travel out of Athens area.

I live the reality of Greece. My city is Thessaloniki, the second largest in the country and I know very well when something is exaggerated, and when is not . That's not the point. For me the point is, why they not want to resolve the underlying problems. Now for the materials in the Greek hospitals I will give you two examples a general and a personal. (General) The overpricing of medicines in Greece reached in several cases and 1,000% (!) from the prices in international markets. (personal) Years ago I worked as a salesman in a large company that sold industrial machinery (excavators, forklifts, generators, etc.) have direct contact with the goverment. I had to completely change my profession and be shoemaker with my own store because want starter to buy our products. As you know as a Christian I could not continue working there.

In all corruptions there are two. One who gives and one who takes. This is like the pun "the chicken come from ​​egg or the egg come from the chicken"

We travelled around the Greek mainland in 1984. Beautiful country.

,

We stayed for a few days near Glyfada, outside Athens, and saw the Witnesses there. How is the ministry in Greece now? It was restricted back then and the brothers could only stand for hours holding up magazines and could not go from door-to-door. We approached them to speak to them and were followed across the street and intimidated by a group of Orthodox priests who were watching for people approaching our brothers, so they could put them off. The brothers however, had chosen to stand outside the US Military barracks and the guards invited us all in just beyond the main gate, away from the priests, so that we could talk. This kind of intimidation of the brothers was apparently common, that's why they liked standing outside the US Barracks because they got help and protection there.

We met one of the young guards on another day, around Glyfada's shopping area, in his civilian clothes and he said how he admired the brothers' endurance in the heat and in the face of the regular opposition from the 'menacing gang of young black-robed priests'. He took the English magazines from the brothers whenever he was on guard duty at that gate.

The priests in Greece is the salt and peper in our ministry. In the village where I live we have one and every time we go to house-house ministry, hunting us. He has a car and has a horn similar to the sound of horn general Lee from the movie Dukes of Hazzard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfZR16VT87Q&feature=related

We preach and he is in the road and beat the horn. The whole scene is be completed with rings the bells of the church. Next time I recording the all scene and upload the video.

I remember the ministry back at '80. Today it has huge differences. Because crime in towns people do not open their doors. Is difficulty from house to house ministry, brothers make presentations from the entry phone or to closed doors. In the villages (the field of my congregation) you can talk with people. Generally it is indifferent. There is a big growth in the foreign field. Because of the economic crisis many brothers start over pioneering and some ex-jw return. This is good news.

[retroHelen]

Thank you Nikos. It's very good having our own reporter/correspondent in Greece on this forum!>

[Lin ASL Ebron]

This is a great example of "framing trouble by decree" (Ps. 94:20) and just another reason why we have been warned not to put our trust in nobles and the sons of men. Here are some comments about the current debt crises that you may find interesting...

Max Keiser, former Wall Street banker, discussing the world debt crisis

William K. Black, one of the regulators who prosecuted those involved in the savings and loan scandal here in the U.S. back in the eighties, on the current world economic crises.

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2011/08/william-k-black-on-speculation-and.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua3EzFBTrhM

You might also enjoy a series the Faithful Slave did in the 1992 Awake, The Rise and Fall of World Commerce, the series runs from January through August.

Everything about this system is a lie and designed by Satan to draw humans away from Jehovah. Satan's most successful tools against mankind as a whole are encouraging contrary talk by sinners against their own interest (politics) and senseless and hurtful desires resulting from the love money.

The news about God's Kingdom is truly good.

[Aris Kamp]

Dear brother and sisters,

the situation in Greece might be a bit different that your media in your respective countries depict it.

The country has undergone 20 year long deindustrialisation. Yet its remaining sectors are intact and the workforce is still healthy. The mines still can be mined, the earth is not scorched and the sea can yield fish. The supermarkers are full with products and eager sales people try to sell you their stock. what is missing? Its that little paper thingy called cash. Greek monetary supply has undergone the fiercest, fastest, worse supply constriction any other country has even gone through in modern times. Wages and pensions went down 40%, and taxes doubled.

Greeks pay taxes. Who says they do not. Actually we have the highest tax% in the whole of euro-zone. It is the big fellas who don't pay taxes. The ones who have cocktails with the ministers...

But mind you, if Greece has over spent, lived beyond its means, and tax evaded like there is no tomorrow, why did the euro crisis hit also: Ireland, Portugal, Spain and Italy? Did they do the same things like Greece? Did they also tax evade or were lazy or crooked like the greeks?

I can see one similar thing, and that is the banking system and the monetary system in the euro zone. It is designed to create such situations. you can run surplus of money supply for 10 years, and contract it for a few years, giving the banking system and the huge business rights and concessions on your natural resources, contracting labor rights, and leaving the people with a feeling that its their fault.

Plus, with this ingenious ploys, they managed to turn the bank losses into public debt... let the people pay. Banks are too big to fail, so, bail them out.

Mind you that not 1 euro of the bail out money ever reached the greek economy. Yet, now the people have to pay all those huge amounts back... because the banks gambled... see the pattern here?

Are there shortages in various goods? there are, and it will get worse. Is unemployement high? yes, roughly 22% but it does not account for the working ones who have not been paid for 3 months or more. Will it get worse? Yeap! Brace yourselves. It`s going downhill...

I cant help noticing that the australian brother who opened up this thread, used the same rhetoric that the mainstram media uses, I `d be really careful and filter everything that comes out of these tv channels.

Currently there are 50-60 brothers leaving Greece every month to seek employment in distant lands. I am myself looking to move out of Greece. I`ll soon join them ranks.

This system is not built to help anyone, but to keep people away from Jehovah, keeping them busy with making money and all that.

Maybe the way things are, the politicians and bankers will look for the only place left where money still exists... religion, ring a bell?

[Hallett 82]

Dear brother and sisters, . . . . .. . . . .

the situation in Greece might be a bit different that your media in your respective countries depict it. . . . . . .

I cant help noticing that the Australian brother who opened up this thread, used the same rhetoric that the mainstream media uses, I `d be really careful and filter everything that comes out of these tv channels. . . . . . . . Currently there are 50-60 brothers leaving Greece every month to seek employment in distant lands. I am myself looking to move out of Greece. I`ll soon join them ranks.

The person who started this thread was not a brother.

The comments were not a dig at Greeks as individuals . . the mess there is a sad end to all human monetary endeavours and all the other namds countries with big problems are on equal footing with each other in the doldrums.

The fact is, I have among my friends (Bros & Sis) and work colleagues many Greek people who tell me of their embarrassment at how things go there now. They too have left because they saw problems coming years ago.

My reason for starting the topic is that the worlds media is watching the Greek people go to the Polls for an election that will affect all of us. How does it all come to this? . . It matters not that it is Greece . .we would see the same issue if we were watching an election in Spain that the entire world holds it breath for to save the Global Economy.

The world worships democracy . . and THIS is how it works?

There is a divide in the world now where the rich were getting wealthier and the poor are getting more downtrodden . . the rich side of the world is now being dragged backwards by the poor countries because they could not keep pulling everyone along with them up the wealth ladder . .

Australia or should I say Melbourne has the biggest Greek community outside of Greece. We watch Greek slanted media . . Greek News from Greece . . and Greek commentators have been breaking down the issues in a candid and non-biased manner. THEY are the ones saying things have soured because of governance issues . . that is nothing different than what the Bible says would happen. . . . when Spain or Italy has the world watching their elections with Stock Markets poised to crash at the result . . the topic will be shifted to their zone.

[nikviz]

Currently there are 50-60 brothers leaving Greece every month to seek employment in distant lands. I am myself looking to move out of Greece. I`ll soon join them ranks.

Last year 14 brothers/sisters leaved from my congregation. Two families in Sweden, one in Cyprus and the rest in Germany.

I can not deny that in March the business went very bad and I did my research to migrating. I sent some CV especially in England. There is a family in NY who knew the truth from my parents. I asked them, if could be to immigrate to NY (Very difficult). One of those who went to Sweden told me to transfer the whole store in Sweden because the city who live's had not repairs shoe. (My machines is new and German technology)

These was the first thoughts. After praying and studying some very good articles published the slave I decided to stay and fight.

especially this

*** w11 3/15 p. 22 Never Forsake Your Fellow Believers ***

Weighed Down by Life’s Anxieties

As noted, toiling to fill our family’s basic physical needs often brings anxieties and can weaken our view of spiritual values. (Matt. 13:22) Marek, mentioned earlier, explains: “When my business failed, I decided to find a well-paying job abroad. I left just for three months, then for another three months, and so on, with short intervals back home. My unbelieving wife suffered emotionally from that.”

Family life was not the only thing that suffered. “In addition to long hours of work in oppressive heat,” continues Marek, “I was exposed to vulgar people who were striving to exploit others. They acted like common gangsters. I felt depressed and dominated. Not even having time to take care of myself, I began to doubt my ability to serve others.”

The sad consequences of Marek’s decision should move us to stop and think. Even if it seems that moving abroad would solve financial difficulties, would it not create other problems? For instance, what would happen to the spiritual and emotional well-being of our family? Would such a move lead to the severing of our ties with the congregation? Would it not deprive us of the privilege of ministering to fellow believers?—1 Tim. 3:2-5.

some more information

*** w11 3/15 p. 20 Never Forsake Your Fellow Believers ***

*** g 5/07 p. 10 What Hope for the Poor? *** Should I Move to Where Things Are Better?

*** w06 2/1 p. 4 True Prosperity in God’s New World ***

*** g93 4/22 p. 17 Should I Move to a More Prosperous Country? ***

*** g02 1/22 p. 10 Finding a Place to Call Their Own ***

*** w91 4/1 p. 26 Counting the Cost of Moving to an Affluent Land ***

[Lin ASL Ebron]

Thank you sooooooo much for sharing your experience within the context of what is actually happening there and throughout the globe. This system is a lie and the media of all the world's nations are working in harmony with the apostle John's comments in the Revelation about "the expressions inspired by demons" and the "fresh water sources" (Rev. chpt. 16, rev bk chpt. 32). We can really see the blindness that Satan is imposing on people. People are accumulating teachers for themselves in all matters, including spiritually. The Faithful Slave is providing such a protection in the spiritual food that they are providing to help us see things clearly and not be herded into the group think of the masses. Serving Jehovah helps us to see reality with courage. It is extremely difficult, just as Paul warned, but with Jehovah's help, our whole association of brothers is fearless because of reliance on Jehovah.

Agape'

Lin