Album Covers and Double Meanings in Songs

[Cheeks]

Someone mentioned earlier about credible sources. Years ago Phil Collins released his first solo album: Face Value. The hit In The Air Tonight was long rumoured to be a song about someone that witnessed someone drown and just stood to watch as the person died. It was even rumoured that during one of his shows the person that the song is about actually was sitting in the front row and died of a heart attack from the song.

Fast forward into the mid 2000's and Phil was asked about this. The song is about his first marriage breaking up and divorce - nothing about witnessing a person dying in lake!

As mentioned, things can get wayyyy carried away, urban legends, etc.

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[carlos]

I about 34 years ago some brothers at Bethel came out with a list of groups that deals with backward messages and satanic worship, etc. This list I was quoting where the information came from. That was my main point.

 

I remember that!   When I was a teenager, from time to time some of my friends was passed a list of Satanic groups that allegedly had been composed by the brothers at Bethel, encouraging him to make photocopies and pass them to the friends. Every time the list came, it had more names in it. In fact, I added a few names by hand myself, and then made copies and passed it to my friends, and the next time the list came around those names were included. They were the exact equivalent of today's email chains or SMSs that ask you to resend them to all your contacts. Garbage.

 

It was never clear who actually wrote those lists. Of course, they didn't come from Bethel, just used the name to claim more authority. Even if it had been composed by some Bethelites, which I very much doubt, spreading such a serious accusation as that of being a Satanist based only on hearsay is reckless and could amount to slander.

 

We need to be careful with the music we listen to. It's good to have a look at covers, to listen carefully to lyrics, to evaluate the feelings the music arouses in us... But unless we have solid proof to accuse someone, it's usually better to let everyone make their own choices rather than repeating unfounded rumors and gossips. That just my opinion.

[bohemian]

I had that list somewhere. If I find it, then I let you know. But, here is one problem, I can see things clear on album covers. And some of them look demonic, so common sense will tell us something that something wrong here. Would you agree?

There was a time when some 'brothers' saw demonic images in the illustrations used in Watchtower publications, sparking a malicious rumour that someone in Bethel's art department was corrupt. These sorts of rumours can be very dangerous.

This is the FDS position on songs etc:

http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/do-jehovahs-witnesses-ban-certain-entertainment/

Edited July 3, 2015 by bohemian

[Dustparticle]

Someone mentioned earlier about credible sources. Years ago Phil Collins released his first solo album: Face Value. The hit In The Air Tonight was long rumoured to be a song about someone that witnessed someone drown and just stood to watch as the person died. It was even rumoured that during one of his shows the person that the song is about actually was sitting in the front row and died of a heart attack from the song.

Fast forward into the mid 2000's and Phil was asked about this. The song is about his first marriage breaking up and divorce - nothing about witnessing a person dying in lake!

As mentioned, things can get wayyyy carried away, urban legends, etc.

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I love this post,  people can get carry away with legends. Moreover, what I mention above about music is probably is not all facts. That why I said you be the JUDGE of this. Any questions what I said about what I post above that appears to be legend, please ask. I do my best to answer especially about Eagles.

[Dustparticle]

There was a time when some 'brothers' saw demonic images in the illustrations used in Watchtower publications, sparking a malicious rumour that someone in Bethel's art department was corrupt. These sorts of rumours can be very dangerous.

This is the FDS position on songs etc:

http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/do-jehovahs-witnesses-ban-certain-entertainment/

I'm not spreading rumors. I wrote down as appeared to be facts. Please tell me where I'm wrong at? Yes, I saw these images in the WT, what is odd I was there at Bethel in the print ,shop before this happened. The brother told us printing plates over lap one another and basically that what happened. 

[Dustparticle]

I remember that!   When I was a teenager, from time to time some of my friends was passed a list of Satanic groups that allegedly had been composed by the brothers at Bethel, encouraging him to make photocopies and pass them to the friends. Every time the list came, it had more names in it. In fact, I added a few names by hand myself, and then made copies and passed it to my friends, and the next time the list came around those names were included. They were the exact equivalent of today's email chains or SMSs that ask you to resend them to all your contacts. Garbage.

 

It was never clear who actually wrote those lists. Of course, they didn't come from Bethel, just used the name to claim more authority. Even if it had been composed by some Bethelites, which I very much doubt, spreading such a serious accusation as that of being a Satanist based only on hearsay is reckless and could amount to slander.

 

We need to be careful with the music we listen to. It's good to have a look at covers, to listen carefully to lyrics, to evaluate the feelings the music arouses in us... But unless we have solid proof to accuse someone, it's usually better to let everyone make their own choices rather than repeating unfounded rumors and gossips. That just my opinion.

I get back to on this. I get more info today.

[Cheeks]

I love this post,  people can get carry away with legends. Moreover, what I mention above about music is probably is not all facts. That why I said you be the JUDGE of this. Any questions what I said about what I post above that appears to be legend, please ask. I do my best to answer especially about Eagles.

I am with you on that.  I purposely stay away from trying to find out the true meaning of songs, the story behind them, etc.  If they mean something to me then I make my own meaning out of them, just as long it isn't satanic, immoral type of tunes.  Same goes with biographies on groups or artists.  I don't want to find out how they live their immoral lives - just make good music that I like and it ends there for me. 

 

Going back to how things get carried away and taken WAY out of context: during U2's ZooTV tour in the early 90's, they played a song called Bullet in the Blue Sky, a song about the USA getting involved in wars while claiming to be peaceful.  Anyways, during the song on the screen the band posted-up a pic of a swastika, then Bono yells don't let it happen again and the swastika blow's up.  Well, the uproar with a sister in my Hall when she found that out.  She vowed that U2 were promoting Nazism, skin heads, etc.  Im not saying having the imagery was right/wrong, but one can see how things get blown way out of proportion until all the facts are known.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Cheeks

[Dustparticle]

I remember that!   When I was a teenager, from time to time some of my friends was passed a list of Satanic groups that allegedly had been composed by the brothers at Bethel, encouraging him to make photocopies and pass them to the friends. Every time the list came, it had more names in it. In fact, I added a few names by hand myself, and then made copies and passed it to my friends, and the next time the list came around those names were included. They were the exact equivalent of today's email chains or SMSs that ask you to resend them to all your contacts. Garbage.

 

It was never clear who actually wrote those lists. Of course, they didn't come from Bethel, just used the name to claim more authority. Even if it had been composed by some Bethelites, which I very much doubt, spreading such a serious accusation as that of being a Satanist based only on hearsay is reckless and could amount to slander.

 

We need to be careful with the music we listen to. It's good to have a look at covers, to listen carefully to lyrics, to evaluate the feelings the music arouses in us... But unless we have solid proof to accuse someone, it's usually better to let everyone make their own choices rather than repeating unfounded rumors and gossips. That just my opinion.

I'm glad you mentioned mention this. The brothers didn't made it, yet I was told otherwise. The list was made through the "Shatter The Darkness" Ministries and the brothers obtain it. Also, I might add I still have most of the list. The part of the list that  I don't have is the reference part. It has 72 references in the list. So, the list was not shabby after all. Basically the list was referring to magazines, newspapers, etc.

[bohemian]

I'm glad you mentioned mention this. The brothers didn't made it, yet I was told otherwise. The list was made through the "Shatter The Darkness" Ministries and the brothers obtain it. Also, I might add I still have most of the list. The part of the list that  I don't have is the reference part. It has 72 references in the list. So, the list was not shabby after all. Basically the list was referring to magazines, newspapers, etc.

So are you saying that it originated from False religion and the brothers just 'took it on board'? That in itself gives pause to consider whether it should be repeated.

My point, brother, is that whatever our personal thoughts are regarding any song, album, film etc. we should not seek to influence our brothers' conscience. As the FDS does, warn about the genres etc. and leave brothers to make their own conscience decisions.

The facts do not appear to be as clear cut as you were implying, so each must make their own decisions.

I know you said that others must judge them, but I feel that you were giving undue prominence to your own decision and not allowing brothers the freedom to choose. Just my opinion.

This is meant kindly and I hope you understand my feelings on this.

[Dustparticle]

So are you saying that it originated from False religion and the brothers just 'took it on board'? That in itself gives pause to consider whether it should be repeated.

My point, brother, is that whatever our personal thoughts are regarding any song, album, film etc. we should not seek to influence our brothers' conscience. As the FDS does, warn about the genres etc. and leave brothers to make their own conscience decisions.

The facts do not appear to be as clear cut as you were implying, so each must make their own decisions.

I know you said that others must judge them, but I feel that you were giving undue prominence to your own decision and not allowing brothers the freedom to choose. Just my opinion.

This is meant kindly and I hope you understand my feelings on this.

Brother I respect your feelings. But the two main groups that I mentioned (Eagles, and Led Zeppelin) have a HISTORY of Satanism one way another. So, something should tell us that something is WRONG here and our feelings should NOT been shaken because of this.

[Stavro]

But the two main groups that I mentioned (Eagles, and Led Zeppelin) have a HISTORY of Satanism one way another.

 

Both of these claims have been thoroughly debunked, so why should we continue to preach known lies that you admit are originally from false religion?

[trottigy]

I see the Eagles are doing a reunion tour. That would be excellent!

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/eagles-2015-us-tour/

[Dustparticle]

Both of these claims have been thoroughly debunked, so why should we continue to preach known lies that you admit are originally from false religion?

Debunked by whom??? Plus, debunked can be LIES too. But, I will not go this way. I will let the records speak for itself, Here are some Eagles songs that seems to be Satanic. They are:

 

 1. Name of Album - Hell Freezes Over 

 

 2. Song - Take The Devil

 

 3. Song - Witchy Woman

 

 4. Song - Journey of the Sorceror

 

 5. Song - Good Day In Hell

 

 6. Song - One of Theses Nights - Lyrics: "You got your demons, you got desires,I got few of my own. I been searching for the daughter of the devil himself" 

 

 Let go to Led Led Zeppelin; 

 

 1. Jimmy Page lived in a haunted house that was owned by Aleister Crowley who was a Satan Worshiper

 

 2. Jimmy Page once owned a Occult book store in Britain named "Equinox"

 

 3. Inside the album cover of "House of the Holy",  it appears to be a human sacrifice

 

 4. On the Album cover "Presence", it appear to be a weird black object on the middle of the table and perhaps have occult backgrounds.

 

 5. Song - Stairway to Heaven appears to have satanic backward messages.

 

 So, are these lies or mistakes?

[carlos]

Please, no need to become upset about this. Let's all keep the discussion nice. :-)

[Dustparticle]

Please, no need to become upset about this. Let's all keep the discussion nice. :-)

I am brother. Believe me, I can take heat. Eating a lot of chocolate get me through.

[Stavro]

Debunked by whom??? Plus, debunked can be LIES too.

 

I linked to a site about the Eagles in an earlier post, and these anti-hoax sites are cited as a positive source by the slave.

 

*** w15 10/15 p. 30 ***

Has it already been exposed on anti-hoax websites?’* Then, use “good sense.” (Prov. 7:7)

[Footnote]

Be aware that previously exposed hoaxes and urban legends resurface now and then, sometimes slightly altered to make them appear genuine.

 

I will let the records speak for itself

 

*sigh*

 

*** w15 10/15 p. 31 ***

It takes effort to verify news. That is why some decide simply to leave it up to the recipient to determine if it is credible. But how much time will it take for him to do that? Time is precious. (Eph. 5:15, 16) Instead of thinking, “If in doubt, send it out,” it would be better to adopt the motto, “If in doubt, throw it out!”

 

The slave is advising us NOT to "let the record speak for itself", but to verify any stories we hear before blindly forwarding them to others.

[Dustparticle]

I linked to a site about the Eagles in an earlier post, and these anti-hoax sites are cited as a positive source by the slave.

 

*** w15 10/15 p. 30 ***

Has it already been exposed on anti-hoax websites?’* Then, use “good sense.” (Prov. 7:7)

[Footnote]

Be aware that previously exposed hoaxes and urban legends resurface now and then, sometimes slightly altered to make them appear genuine.

 

 

*sigh*

 

*** w15 10/15 p. 31 ***

It takes effort to verify news. That is why some decide simply to leave it up to the recipient to determine if it is credible. But how much time will it take for him to do that? Time is precious. (Eph. 5:15, 16) Instead of thinking, “If in doubt, send it out,” it would be better to adopt the motto, “If in doubt, throw it out!”

 

The slave is advising us NOT to "let the record speak for itself", but to verify any stories we hear before blindly forwarding them to others.

I made my point clear. If you want to go against the Slave, then that is up to YOU and OTHERS who support you too. Plus, I didn't refer to NO sites. What I mentioned is the names of songs by the Eagles. These songs give an indication who they really are. Mathew 15:18. Checkers, your move.

[bohemian]

Wow.

Elvis sang about the Devil in Disguise - according to the rule of song titles he must have been a Satanist!

The Slave has NEVER mentioned any song titles, Glenn. Please quote the Slave if you believe otherwise. Please do not accuse us of going against the Slave, because we choose to follow OUR consciences and not yours.

[Tortuga]

Wow.

Elvis sang about the Devil in Disguise - according to the rule of song titles he must have been a Satanist!

 

The comedian Flip Wilson was controlled by Satan, everything he did was because the Devil made him do it.

 

I am staying away from this topic but I couldn't resist trying to inject a little humor. I guess the Devil made me do it...

[Dustparticle]

Wow.

Elvis sang about the Devil in Disguise - according to the rule of song titles he must have been a Satanist!

The Slave has NEVER mentioned any song titles, Glenn. Please quote the Slave if you believe otherwise. Please do not accuse us of going against the Slave, because we choose to follow OUR consciences and not yours.

I do not know hold old some of you guys are, I have been at a convention in the 1980's,  that mentioned some of the lyrics of some of the these songs forwards and backwards, and NEVER  the names of the groups, yet I KNOW who they were. HOW?? Because I read a lot and have photographic memories too. So, are you guys are telling me that Slave had nothing to deal with this talk at the convention? Checkers your move.

[Cheeks]

Debunked by whom??? Plus, debunked can be LIES too. But, I will not go this way. I will let the records speak for itself, Here are some Eagles songs that seems to be Satanic. They are:

1. Name of Album - Hell Freezes Over

2. Song - Take The Devil

3. Song - Witchy Woman

4. Song - Journey of the Sorceror

5. Song - Good Day In Hell

6. Song - One of Theses Nights - Lyrics: "You got your demons, you got desires,I got few of my own. I been searching for the daughter of the devil himself"

Let go to Led Led Zeppelin;

1. Jimmy Page lived in a haunted house that was owned by Aleister Crowley who was a Satan Worshiper

2. Jimmy Page once owned a Occult book store in Britain named "Equinox"

3. Inside the album cover of "House of the Holy", it appears to be a human sacrifice

4. On the Album cover "Presence", it appear to be a weird black object on the middle of the table and perhaps have occult backgrounds.

5. Song - Stairway to Heaven appears to have satanic backward messages.

So, are these lies or mistakes?

Maybe it's best if Zeppelin and the Eagles bother you so much not to listen to them...? Believe me, there is SOOOOO much worse music out in the world.

I think music, like many other things are a personal decision and really for us personally to decide. I don't have an issue with either groups and also don't feel they are an issue, as has been speculated above.

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[Dustparticle]

Maybe it's best if Zeppelin and the Eagles bother you so much not to listen to them...? Believe me, there is SOOOOO much worse music out in the world.

I think music, like many other things are a personal decision and really for us personally to decide. I don't have an issue with either groups and also don't feel they are an issue, as has been speculated above.

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 I don't know how old you are and probably you were in your diapers after these songs came out. And I have listen to some of their music when I was young and they don't bother me SOOOOO much at all. I was using them as a reference. I could use Earth Wind and Fire as a reference too, but I didn't. Yes, there are a lot of music worse than theirs. But sense I mentioned them, then I have touch a nerve. Why??? I might be from the old school, yet I'm HIP in the 21st Century, Checkers your move

[Cheeks]

I don't know how old you are and probably you were in your diapers after these songs came out. And I have listen to some of their music when I was young and they don't bother me SOOOOO much at all. I was using them as a reference. I could use Earth Wind and Fire as a reference too, but I didn't. Yes, there are a lot of music worse than theirs. But sense I mentioned them, then I have touch a nerve. Why??? I might be from the old school, yet I'm HIP in the 21st Century, Checkers your move

What exactly is the main point or end-game as to why you started this topic in the first place?

........."your move"

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Edited July 4, 2015 by Cheeks

[Dustparticle]

What exactly is the main point or end-game as to why you started this topic in the first place?

........."your move"

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I can't let history somewhat disappear. I was alive when this happened....your move my brother.

[Stavro]

(Galatians 5:22, 23) The fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control.

 

Might it be possible to try to display these positive qualities as we continue on with the discussion? In the last page or so, it's been little more than slinging around random insults and accusations.

 

Would we have this attitude toward one another while standing at a literature cart? Or in the Kingdom Hall before a meeting? Or even a back-room discussion? If not, why is this considered an acceptable tone for a 'spiritually upbuilding' discussion on a publicly visible forum?

 

I made my point clear. If you want to go against the Slave, then that is up to YOU and OTHERS who support you too.

 

I am merely asking for you to provide a verifiable source, just as we're advised by the slave. (w15 10/15 p. 31)

 

If you feel that I am in opposition to the slave because I follow the written advice of the slave, I trust that Jehovah will clarify matters in his own time.