Police inquiry over Jehovah's Witness magazine 'mentally diseased' article

[jakey123]

As a follow up to the report in the Independent newspaper this morning on 'mentally diseased' article.The Telegraph is now running an article detailing a police report into the magazine comments.

My original comment on the Independent is in the 'are you ready for persecution section'.

Not sure where this is all going but the apostates are having a field day,in the British press.

[Brother_Bliss]

As a follow up to the report in the Independent newspaper this morning on 'mentally diseased' article.The Telegraph is now running an article detailing a police report into the magazine comments.

My original comment on the Independent is in the 'are you ready for persecution section'.

Not sure where this is all going but the apostates are having a field day,in the British press.

The Telegraph doesn't seem to have a comments section....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/8791196/Police-inquiry-over-Jehovahs-Witness-magazine-mentally-diseased-article.html

If I am wrong, I will remove the link.

[Brother_Bliss]

The Telegraph doesn't seem to have a comments section....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/8791196/Police-inquiry-over-Jehovahs-Witness-magazine-mentally-diseased-article.html

If I am wrong, I will remove the link.

And what do you guys think, should I put this in the News forum? It's not apostate. It's just reporting and rather balanced at that.

[Dages]

The telegraph is better, no comment section...

[retroHelen]

The other thread on this topic of the context of the scriptural term 'Mentally Diseased' was very useful in showing the real meaning of the phrase and the comment that if there is a lot of flack/backlash, the organisation will not water down, but further clarify the use of the 1 Timothy 6:3,4 scripture.

Newspapers nearly always imply that we can't question or discuss anything about our faith and that all those leaving the Truth are ostracised and treated like apostates, which we know is not the case.

Let's hope and pray that if there is an investigation by the Police or whoever they've complained to, that we are exonerated and the 'offended complainers' are shown up for being so easily provoked (1 Cor 13:4,5 - Love ... does not become provoked) and jumping to offence before seeking for proper clarification (Ecclesiastes 7:9, Proverbs 18:13)).

[Dages]

Maybe the Slave did this on purpose... :readbible:

[GrumpysWife]

Maybe the Slave did this on purpose... :readbible:

Good thought, David.........

[Áine]

The Telegraph doesn't seem to have a comments section....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/8791196/Police-inquiry-over-Jehovahs-Witness-magazine-mentally-diseased-article.html

If I am wrong, I will remove the link.

And what do you guys think, should I put this in the News forum? It's not apostate. It's just reporting and rather balanced at that.

I very nearly put it in the news forum for those very reasons.... I am so glad the newspaper doesn't have a comments section that way it will stay balanced.... we will get more of this kind of thing...

[sianrose]

I commented earlier on the Independent one...could not resist it...that paper has gone right down in my estimation....I posted my comment several times and when I went back they had been removed...I said..."to the editor...would you have allowed these comments to been posted ...if they said Muslim and Islam"...a few other comments then said the same sort of thing...

I am not going back to look ...but the things that paper has let commentators post is slanderous...I expect it of apostates...that's what they do...but to have a newspaper called ...the Independent ... and it is so one sided...is shameful

[stuagu]

hi sian, i think youre wise not to go back, its so easy for any of us to get drawn quite innocently into defending our faith, it is what we do after all, but where apostate views are concerned its best to leave it. im sure Jehovah will not let these comments, whatever they are, hinder a person of the right heart condition from drawing close to him. as for the telegraph article, it seemed reasonably balanced... brotherly love to all. stuagu

[Brother_Bliss]

Police inquiry over Jehovah's Witness magazine 'mentally diseased' article

An official magazine for Jehovah's Witnesses that described those who leave the church as "mentally diseased" is at the centre of a police inquiry, it has emerged.

Detectives are investigating whether the article, published in July’s edition of The Watchtower, is in breach of Britain’s religious hatred laws.

The article, published in the magazine which is distributed by Jehovah's Witnesses across the globe, reportedly warned followers to avoid "false teachers" which it condemned as being "mentally diseased".

"Suppose that a doctor told you to avoid contact with someone who is infected with a contagious, deadly disease," part of the article stated.

"You would know what the doctor means, and you would strictly heed his warning. Well, apostates are 'mentally diseased', and they seek to infect others with their disloyal teachings."

A group of former Witnesses, based in Portsmouth, have made an official complaint to Hampshire Police about the article. Police have launched an investigation.

They are considering whether to complain to the Charity Commission. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Britain, which prints church doctrine in Britain, is a registered charity.

The church is known for handing down harsh punishments to followers who criticise doctrines or raise questions about the faith.

Angus Robertson, a former Witness "elder" from an undisclosed town in Hampshire, who was present at the meeting with police, told The Independent:

"The way scripture is being used to bully people must be challenged.

“If a religion was preaching that blacks or gays were mentally diseased there would understandable outrage."

But Rick Fenton, a church spokesman, defended the passages, saying ostracisation was "a personal matter for each individual to decide for himself".

"Any one of Jehovah's Witnesses is free to express their feelings and to ask questions," he said. "If a person changes their mind about Bible-based teachings they once held dear, we recognise their right to leave."

A Hampshire police spokesman was unavailable for comment.

Article Source: The Telegraph

[sunshine]

This is great!!

I never thought I'd see the day when a study article of Jehovah's Witnesses made the TELEGRAPH (and the indepedent) major, mainstream newspapers. Slander and misrepresentation of course but ... I'm a firm believer there's no such thing as bad publicity.

Great also because the hoohar is a direct quotation from scripture so the bottom line is, any "investigation" (lol... yeah right) will involve taking the bible to court and the sooner that happens the sooner babylon will come tumbling down.

As for whether the brothers said that "on purpose" all I can say is the slave has and always will speak bible truths without fear - what? does anyone think they knew of a scriptural application and would NOT publish it for fear of hurting the feelings of those that would quite happily have us all shot if they could? They have to feed the flock and we are not going to go hungry (or be infected by apostate ideas) because they are too timid to publish scripture.

My my... the telegraph? Investigation? We know whose "eyeball" they will be touching if they do...

Let the games begin!!

[destiny]

nice post Stuart!

Hence the very appropriate topic by bro Jerry yesterday "Are You Ready For Persecution?"

very interesting!....Jehovah knows exactly what he is doing...

[sianrose]

Let's hope and pray that if there is an investigation by the Police or whoever they've complained to, that we are exonerated and the 'offended complainers' are shown up for being so easily provoked (1 Cor 13:4,5 - Love ... does not become provoked) and jumping to offence before seeking for proper clarification (Ecclesiastes 7:9, Proverbs 18:13)).

Maybe the Slave did this on purpose...

Great also because the hoohar is a direct quotation from scripture so the bottom line is, any "investigation" (lol... yeah right) will involve taking the bible to court

great points all...I didn't think of them....who knows what can come from it...that material can come up in all sorts of random places...

[destiny]

...that material can come up in all sorts of random places...

random to us, but not to jehovah:)

[Greenfield]

Of course, this will all blow over once people realize we are condemning a course of action (apostasy), not a group of people (ex-members).

If any ex-members take offense then they are admitting they are in fact apostates committed to opposing the organization instead of moving on with their lives like they would if they were not mentally diseased.

Apostates =

[Anastithika]

Great also because the hoohar is a direct quotation from scripture so the bottom line is, any "investigation" (lol... yeah right) will involve taking the bible to court and the sooner that happens the sooner babylon will come tumbling down.

Ironically, I made a thread about the term "mentally diseased" being offensive not too long ago. One of the things I showed in that thread was that the NWT is the only bible that has the term "mentally diseased" and that in the original Greek text there is no mention of a person's mental state. Even in the "Kingdom Interlinear" the term "mentally diseased" isn't used. I have no idea why the word "mentally" was added when 1 Timothy 6:4 was translated, perhaps that is a question that will come up if this issue goes any further.

[Brother_Bliss]

Ironically, I made a thread about the term "mentally diseased" being offensive not too long ago. One of the things I showed in that thread was that the NWT is the only bible that has the term "mentally diseased" and that in the original Greek text there is no mention of a person's mental state. Even in the "Kingdom Interlinear" the term "mentally diseased" isn't used. I have no idea why the word "mentally" was added when 1 Timothy 6:4 was translated, perhaps that is a question that will come up if this issue goes any further.

Which will only lead to the New World Translation being vindicated and noted for it's unbiased and accurate renderings of the Greek and Hebrew texts, yet again.

For review, it was also shown why the context itself is speaking about a person's mental state here...

http://www.jwtalk.net/forum/read.php?10,50643,50855#msg-50855

And that the original Greek word actually can refer to an "ailment of the mind" here...

http://www.jwtalk.net/forum/read.php?10,50643,50862#msg-50862

And even how half of the other translations you referenced, while not rendered "mentally diseased", use words that actually have to do with one's mental state.

[destiny]

I have no idea why the word "mentally" was added when 1 Timothy 6:4 was translated, perhaps that is a question that will come up if this issue goes any further.

If this is how you feel, why aren't you writting to the FDS and tell them how you feel?...why are you belly aching here? that is the problem I am having with you clifton. Have you gone to the elders with your concerns?

[sunshine]

Great also because the hoohar is a direct quotation from scripture so the bottom line is, any "investigation" (lol... yeah right) will involve taking the bible to court and the sooner that happens the sooner babylon will come tumbling down.

Ironically, I made a thread about the term "mentally diseased" being offensive not too long ago. One of the things I showed in that thread was that the NWT is the only bible that has the term "mentally diseased" and that in the original Greek text there is no mention of a person's mental state. Even in the "Kingdom Interlinear" the term "mentally diseased" isn't used. I have no idea why the word "mentally" was added when 1 Timothy 6:4 was translated, perhaps that is a question that will come up if this issue goes any further.

Are you suggesting that the NWT is WRONG or that it is inferior in its rendition to other translation?

Just looking for a little clarification of what you are saying.

Thanks

[Greenfield]

Which will only lead to the New World Translation being vindicated and noted for it's unbiased and accurate renderings of the Greek and Hebrew texts, yet again.

For review, it was also shown why the context itself is speaking about a person's mental state here...

http://www.jwtalk.net/forum/read.php?10,50643,50855#msg-50855

And that the original Greek word actually can refer to an "ailment of the mind" here...

http://www.jwtalk.net/forum/read.php?10,50643,50862#msg-50862

And even how half of the other translations you referenced, while not rendered "mentally diseased", use words that actually have to do with one's mental state.

Here's some other translations even more forward than the NWT:

1 Timothy 6:4 (Common English Bible)

"They don’t understand anything but have a sick obsession with debates and arguments."

1 Timothy 6:4 (Contemporary English Version)

"...they don't really know a thing. Their minds are sick, and they like to argue over words."

1 Timothy 6:4 (Darby Translation)

"...he is puffed up, knowing nothing, but sick about questions and disputes of words,"

1 Timothy 6:4 (English Standard Version)

"He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words,"

1 Timothy 6:4 (New American Standard Bible)

"...has a [a]morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words,"

Footnote [a]: is sick about

1 Timothy 6:4 (New Century Version)

"...but is sick with a love for arguing and fighting about words."

[trottigy]

So that I understand this right- the verse is saying it is wrong to argue about words? But Clifton is arguing about the words "mentally diseased" used in the Bible?

That is not a good starting position. Lets be thankful the translators of the NWT nailed it with the term they chose.

Side note - did you see the text for today? I thought how fitting for that text - just one day after this article came out. A little divine direction for something done over a year ago.

[sunshine]

So that I understand this right- the verse is saying it is wrong to argue about words? But Clifton is arguing about the words "mentally diseased" used in the Bible?

That is not a good starting position. Lets be thankful the translators of the NWT nailed it with the term they chose.

Side note - did you see the text for today? I thought how fitting for that text - just one day after this article came out. A little divine direction for something done over a year ago.

I don't know what he's (Clifton) is saying (which is why I asked for clarification for his point) but I do know Jehovah's Witnesses have full confidence in the good scholarly basis ofthe NWT and that if it stands alone (which it most certainly does not) in a particular rendition), it has a very solid basis for doing so.

It took me all of 5 seconds to check the greek "noseo" being translated and to see that the NWT is perfectly correct.

1. to be sick

2. metaph. of any ailment of the mind

1. to be taken with such an interest in a thing as amounts to a disease, to have a morbid fondness for

I come here to relax and converse on upbuilding matters with like minded brothers and sisters, NOT to hear the very reasoning Paul was refering to.

So I will wait patiently for Clifton to clarify what he is suggesting as to the NWT.

[spiritman]

Usually in my experience when I look up a scripture in various Bibles they all end up helping me understand what the scripture means. But going to the Interlinear is great and I found a website that pops up the Strong's word in Greek or Hebrew and its meaning. Very cool...

But what really stands out about the article is the plain fact that the brother said, it's "a personal matter for each individual to decide for himself". Enough said, that's the truth of it. If you don't want to be a Witness you are free to leave!

[Anastithika]

If this is how you feel, why aren't you writting to the FDS and tell them how you feel?...why are you belly aching here? that is the problem I am having with you clifton. Have you gone to the elders with your concerns?

I'm not "belly aching", I just pointed out the fact that the NWT was the only English Bible (that I know of) that translates 1 Timothy 6:4 with the phrase "mentally diseased". I don't feel a need to write anyone as I don't think this is a big deal, but based on the article it appears to be a big deal for some.

Are you suggesting that the NWT is WRONG or that it is inferior in its rendition to other translation?

Just looking for a little clarification of what you are saying.

Thanks

In my lifetime I have read 5 different English Bibles from Genesis to Revelation, ( KJV, NIV, ASV, ESV, NWT) and read a good portion of many others. I also have been studying Greek for the past 6 years and own several Greek Bibles. One thing I learned when comparing multiple English Bibles to Greek is that no translation is 100% accurate and they all get a few things wrong. This is not of any fault to the translators, Greek is one of those languages that can't be translated well into English because the two languages are so different.