What are your dreams or mental images about judgement?

[Nirex]

1 minute ago, JennyM said:

A talk from bro Morris, I guess last month.. He said people won't believe it (Jehovah's day)  until it happens but it will happen. 

Only 8 souls were saved in Noah's ark.. 

 

Our focus now is on rightly disposed ones..The masses has been already preached.. 

We knock on the door and people already know by our looks that we are Jehovah's witnesses.

 

I don't mean the masses. I mean like the apostates. Back when I used to be paranoid before taking it more seriously. I used to read some some of the forum posts on their sites (mostly looking for prophecies). Some kept mentioning jumping in last minute, or going to the KH the night the doors close.  Hence why, I picture a literal seperation/judgement still.

[tekmantwo]

20 minutes ago, Nirex said:

I used to read some some of the forum posts on their sites (mostly looking for prophecies). Some kept mentioning jumping in last minute, or going to the KH the night the doors close

Read Gal 6 verse 7 again.

 

7 Do not be misled: God is not one to be mocked. For whatever a person is sowing, this he will also reap; 

 

There is no way some mentally diseased apostate is gonna fool the Almighty, no way, no how, not happenin...

Edited June 12, 2019 by tekmantwo
Added Scripture..

[EccentricM]

1 hour ago, Nirex said:

I don't mean the masses. I mean like the apostates. Back when I used to be paranoid before taking it more seriously. I used to read some some of the forum posts on their sites (mostly looking for prophecies). Some kept mentioning jumping in last minute, or going to the KH the night the doors close.  Hence why, I picture a literal seperation/judgement still.

What @tekmantwo said. It won't matter where people are so long as they are in Jehovah's "book of life" and such ones are doing what they can in their own cirumstances, Jehovah will apply instruction to each person as needed. Some of us may be in positions where we may just have to stay put in our homes, others in KHs during the end. Jehovah can protect his people wherever the are, and he can also destroy people wherever they are.

 

Think of the apostate Christians back in the 1st Century who dropped down dead in their own houses when found guilt of stealing from the congregation. Nothing spectacular killed them, the life literally just went out of them. The same could happen to apostates being in the same place as faithful ones. "Sheep and goats" are going to be seperated by that time in "some manner".

 

 

Quote

A talk from bro Morris, I guess last month.. He said people won't believe it (Jehovah's day)  until it happens but it will happen. 

Only 8 souls were saved in Noah's ark.. 

 

Our focus now is on rightly disposed ones..The masses has been already preached.. 

We knock on the door and people already know by our looks that we are Jehovah's witnesses.

 

On this part @JennyM I trust Jehovah to show mercy accordingly to the context and scenario we are in right now. Many people refuse religion because of there being no physical evidence of God and just don't trust any faith system because they are raised in a "world" which teaches kids from birth that the Bible and so on are no different from fairy tale books and are told from birth that religious people are either stupid or crazy. And it would be for no fault of their own for not even investigating or listening to our preaching work. We are just "door knockers" to them, advertising a "product", or "club" or something they will automatically regard as fantasy, and they can't be blamed or be seen as "guilty and worthy of death" for that in my eyes. Paul himself said he was sparred because of his ignorance. 

 

I do feel people who are convinced by "sights" such as God's voice, or Jesus presense have a chance, if they are "rightly disposed" to being a person who would then listen and do as God says after realising it was all true, and that it was not some fairy tale. It's not always people's own fault or a bad heart that causes people to not listen to what we say or investigate faith. I feel sorry for people who would be in such a scenario and would die just because of such, because to me it's understandable why people often reject our preaching in the age we live in.

 

I know people have said to me the end is compared to the days of Noah in regards to all this and that people were not saved for begging at the end when the saw the rain coming down, but it is also compared to Sodom and Gomorah, where Lot pleads to God to hold back and "save good people" who may be rightly disposed even though they may not even have a relationship with Jehovah, and he listens to Lot, he says "I will not destroy them if there are x ammount of good people in there". Now we know there wasn't, but this "princible" of him saving people at the last minuet "during destruction" has been a theme of several accounts in the scriptures.

 

With the flood, they all died even though they begged when it started raining, but I feel it would it be too ridged of our thinking to apply the mentality and judgment critera of the pre-flood people to people of our world. The people of the flood all "knew" God was real, and that angels were real (they were sleeping with them!), so that's why they had no excuse when they started banging on the ark to get in as it rained. It's not that they didn't believe Noah because of circumstance or that it seemed too wild and fantasy like to happen (they were living in an age of direct spirit creature interactions and live miracles), but rather they didn't "want" to believe anything would happen, because they were so wicked, and despite knowing God was real.

 

'Today' the context of people and society is far more complicated, and I do think Jehovah would take that into consideration and would spare people who say "my goodness, the Bible IS real, please let me live Jehovah I was so convinced and tricked by this world into thinking you wasn't" as fire begins raining down.

 

We have to look at the "context and reasoning" behind specific judgments and whether people are begging just because they want to get away with what they've done and not die, or if people are genuine at heart but just didn't believe God or our message was real but then genuinly do. and are people who would be wonderful, holy and upright if given chance to survive in the New World at that moment. Afterall Jehovah "desires nobody to be destroyed", so if there is a chance of a person being saved, no matter how or what moment it comes about, surely Jehovah with that mentality would do so if appropiate.

 

Only reason I say he didn't during the flood is because they had no excuse whatsoever to claim ignorance of God or innocence of heart. As I already said, they knew what they were doing in direct defiance, just like the Israelites worshipping a golden calf after they saw all those great things in Egypt. 

 

Of course, for all we know, this "undeniable evidence" may come about just before the end hits, perhaps during the tribulation time is when Jehovah will really open up people's hearts to the full and on a mass scale to make them listen and take seriously into consideration the signs going on at that point in time and to our message of what it all means and why. Either way, Jehovah is not an unjust God. He will neither let people fool him just by "sitting amongst his people" to be saved, nor would he let people die for no good reason other than simple timing or ignorance/disbelief due to the climate we live in.

[McKay]

On 6/12/2019 at 2:20 AM, EccentricM said:

What @tekmantwo said. It won't matter where people are so long as they are in Jehovah's "book of life" and such ones are doing what they can in their own cirumstances, Jehovah will apply instruction to each person as needed. Some of us may be in positions where we may just have to stay put in our homes, others in KHs during the end. Jehovah can protect his people wherever the are, and he can also destroy people wherever they are.

 

Think of the apostate Christians back in the 1st Century who dropped down dead in their own houses when found guilt of stealing from the congregation. Nothing spectacular killed them, the life literally just went out of them. The same could happen to apostates being in the same place as faithful ones. "Sheep and goats" are going to be seperated by that time in "some manner".

 

 

On this part @JennyM I trust Jehovah to show mercy accordingly to the context and scenario we are in right now. Many people refuse religion because of there being no physical evidence of God and just don't trust any faith system because they are raised in a "world" which teaches kids from birth that the Bible and so on are no different from fairy tale books and are told from birth that religious people are either stupid or crazy. And it would be for no fault of their own for not even investigating or listening to our preaching work. We are just "door knockers" to them, advertising a "product", or "club" or something they will automatically regard as fantasy, and they can't be blamed or be seen as "guilty and worthy of death" for that in my eyes. Paul himself said he was sparred because of his ignorance. 

 

I do feel people who are convinced by "sights" such as God's voice, or Jesus presense have a chance, if they are "rightly disposed" to being a person who would then listen and do as God says after realising it was all true, and that it was not some fairy tale. It's not always people's own fault or a bad heart that causes people to not listen to what we say or investigate faith. I feel sorry for people who would be in such a scenario and would die just because of such, because to me it's understandable why people often reject our preaching in the age we live in.

 

I know people have said to me the end is compared to the days of Noah in regards to all this and that people were not saved for begging at the end when the saw the rain coming down, but it is also compared to Sodom and Gomorah, where Lot pleads to God to hold back and "save good people" who may be rightly disposed even though they may not even have a relationship with Jehovah, and he listens to Lot, he says "I will not destroy them if there are x ammount of good people in there". Now we know there wasn't, but this "princible" of him saving people at the last minuet "during destruction" has been a theme of several accounts in the scriptures.

 

With the flood, they all died even though they begged when it started raining, but I feel it would it be too ridged of our thinking to apply the mentality and judgment critera of the pre-flood people to people of our world. The people of the flood all "knew" God was real, and that angels were real (they were sleeping with them!), so that's why they had no excuse when they started banging on the ark to get in as it rained. It's not that they didn't believe Noah because of circumstance or that it seemed too wild and fantasy like to happen (they were living in an age of direct spirit creature interactions and live miracles), but rather they didn't "want" to believe anything would happen, because they were so wicked, and despite knowing God was real.

 

'Today' the context of people and society is far more complicated, and I do think Jehovah would take that into consideration and would spare people who say "my goodness, the Bible IS real, please let me live Jehovah I was so convinced and tricked by this world into thinking you wasn't" as fire begins raining down.

 

We have to look at the "context and reasoning" behind specific judgments and whether people are begging just because they want to get away with what they've done and not die, or if people are genuine at heart but just didn't believe God or our message was real but then genuinly do. and are people who would be wonderful, holy and upright if given chance to survive in the New World at that moment. Afterall Jehovah "desires nobody to be destroyed", so if there is a chance of a person being saved, no matter how or what moment it comes about, surely Jehovah with that mentality would do so if appropiate.

 

Only reason I say he didn't during the flood is because they had no excuse whatsoever to claim ignorance of God or innocence of heart. As I already said, they knew what they were doing in direct defiance, just like the Israelites worshipping a golden calf after they saw all those great things in Egypt. 

 

Of course, for all we know, this "undeniable evidence" may come about just before the end hits, perhaps during the tribulation time is when Jehovah will really open up people's hearts to the full and on a mass scale to make them listen and take seriously into consideration the signs going on at that point in time and to our message of what it all means and why. Either way, Jehovah is not an unjust God. He will neither let people fool him just by "sitting amongst his people" to be saved, nor would he let people die for no good reason other than simple timing or ignorance/disbelief due to the climate we live in.

I respect the wishes of many here who are hoping there will be a conversion of hearts during the GT. I think it shows your deep love for people and desire to see no one destroyed.

 

However, the FDS has been clear on this point in the past, and to my knowledge there has been no update since the July 2013 WT article "Tell Us When Will These Things Be?" (par. 13 pictured below). There is no scriptural indication that people will be able to change their minds AFTER the attack on BtG begins. Hence, why the preaching work is so vital NOW!

 

Now, COULD there be a last-ditch effort or campaign made in the interim period between the cry of peace and security (the precursor) and the attack (the beginning of the GT)? Absolutely, but we will have to wait and see.

 

[JennyM]

Im also concerned about the people bro @EccentricM  Thats why I did auxilliary pioneering since 2011 and a full time pioneering for almost 2 years. 

I can't do it right now because I need to be balanced by having a more stable job and take care of my aging parents. 

 

In our city,  there are 4 or 5 public carts that stay there for 12 hours.  Bro and sisters do shifting schedule.  hundreds of thousands see the cart. 

When we did cart witnessing in 2014, many were  taking magazines.. Unfortunately now, the number has declined. 

 

The bros purchased a new khall that is situated across the busy highway. and they see the jw.org sign from it. 

 

Jehovah and His people have done their best.  

 

I even tried to preach to my friends on FB.. I can only do my best but I don't have control on their hearts. 

 

We are being prepared for persecution and armageddon now. Do people have reasons not to hear the good news? The bible is even the most circulated books in the world. 

They have various for sure but Jehovah Himself  draw close those rightly disposed ones. 

 

With news about much plastics that kills sea creatures, and lots of death news.. etc.. I started to wonder why.. 

And sad to say, some our congregations stopped attending meetings about 5 or 10%  (unfulfilled expectations) I don' t know. But godly and ungodly can't co exist forever.Lots of opportunities for the unbelievers but they don't want to enter into a narrow door.. Too inconvenient for them. 

 

 

 

 

[Nirex]

1 hour ago, Duplo said:

I respect the wishes of many here who are hoping there will be a conversion of hearts during the GT. I think it shows your deep love for people and desire to see no one destroyed.

 

However, the FDS has been clear on this point in the past, and to my knowledge there has been no update since the July 2013 WT article "Tell Us When Will These Things Be?" (par. 13 pictured below). There is no scriptural indication that people will be able to change their minds AFTER the attack on BtG begins. Hence, why the preaching work is so vital NOW!

 

Now, COULD there be a last-ditch effort or campaign made in the interim period between the cry of peace and security (the precursor) and the attack (the beginning of the GT)? Absolutely, but we will have to wait and see.

 

As far as the FDS knows they can't change their heart during the GT. But I've often wondered if maybe if there was a possibility of such, the reason we don't know is because a lot of us would do it. Wait last minute and jump on the bus. If we live thinking that it's too late at the GT and tell people that, it ensures we show our faith now, those of us that do believe and know better.

 

But if there's a chance they can still change, then it's good that we don't know that or we might be tempted not to prove it now.

 

Just a theory anyways.

[EccentricM]

37 minutes ago, Nirex said:

Wait last minute and jump on the bus.

Yes, that's the other side of the coin. Jehovah isn't going to be mocked by those who "know" it's the truth but say to themselves "I'll just go to Jehovah once Armageddon starts, but I want a wordly life right now". You can't cheat your way in.

 

 

My point was directed to those who perhaps pretty much live almost up to Christian standards (they might have downfalls, perhaps living in fornication, unscriptual entertainment) but otherwise are good people, and only don't pay attention to the preaching work because they are so mentally hardned and conditioned by the world that "religion is made up by weird crazy people in ancient times telling stories and pretending a man lives in the sky who we can't see", and so they live in a way that may not be quite up to Jehovah's standards, because they don't see "reason to", if they are not convinced that a God is real for whatever reason that is.

 

I love to ask these people "I know you don't beleive a God exists, it's understandable, but if God did speak aloud, and said he was the God of the Bible and says he would grant you everlasting life with none of the problems or pain we face today, as long as you lived by his laws, would you do it?" and a few say "yes" to that, the only wall to their becoming a Christian is conviction of there even being being a deity.

 

As such, to them they have the attitude that we would if someone knocked our door and said "if you don't leave at midnight, the boogey man will get you, it says so in the ancient manuscript I found from the middle ages" or if say a Hindu preacher came to our door and said "Kali will curse you if you do not bow to Vishnu". I think most if not all of us would scoff at that. We ignore it not out of defiance (like pre-flood people) but because of genuine conviction in what "we" believe.

 

And  so, all these people, though good people, see the Bible and our message the same way due to the climate and upbringing they have in this world, to the point where they don't even think it merits investigation. And I can't see any "inherent evil" in such a world view that would be worthy of everlasting destruction. 

 

Now I do of course know that there are people out there who don't want to know also simply because they prefer to live immoraly and don't even want to be humbled or educated by a superior being on how to live, right and wrong, etc. I knew someone else who said if God spoke to him, he'd defy him even if it got him killed and wasn't willing to even listen to God's reasons for his laws, very haughty man. Those people I can see biting the dust for good reason along with other wicked people.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2019 by EccentricM

[McKay]

32 minutes ago, Nirex said:

But I've often wondered if maybe if there was a possibility of such

Regina, this could very well be the case if Jehovah wills it. But I fear the personal belief that the door will remain open after the GT starts could impact our urgency with preaching. Jehovah requires actions based on faith and good motive. To let people slip in once they SEE the fulfillment defeats that idea IMHO. Besides I think it's a moot point. If people can't see the prophecy of the last days being fulfilled now then they might not see the fulfillment of future prophecy as well. For all we know, the GT could start in a way that totally makes sense to us but people without faith will dismiss as something else.

[McKay]

2 minutes ago, EccentricM said:

good people

This is a point I had to explain to my younger sister who dislikes how some Witnesses lump all worldly people together. She insists some worldly people are "good people" as you said. But good by whose standard? By their own idea of good? By the world's? Unless they're living up to Jehovah's standards of morality, it's for naught. Besides, we have seen examples of those with hearts hardened by the world being reached with the good news now. I'm sure Jehovah is using his spirit to reach such one's as we speak, especially if their hearts are inclined toward righteousness. If His spirit can't get through nothing can. That's why getting to them by preaching BEFORE the GT starts is so vital.

[Saffron]

On 6/14/2019 at 12:44 PM, Nirex said:

Wait last minute and jump on the bus.

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102004254?q=last+minute+display+of+zeal&p=par

 

"Our not knowing the exact time gives us opportunity to show that we serve God out of pure motives. Those who know Jehovah realize that a last-minute display of zeal will not impress God, who sees what the heart is.—Jeremiah 17:10; Hebrews 4:13."