Peace and Security, Great Tribulation, Armageddon

[cme]

Confused?  Why should you be?  1914 was always a year that the FDS class was looking at in the late 1800 and early 1900s. 

 

There is a knowledge of the GT but, not one of the 3rd world war.  The only thing I might say is that the GT can possibly be equal to that world war 3 however, this GT will be brought on by Jehovah not man.

 

In fact, He will put it into the hearts of the nations to give their power to the UN.  Then the GT is on or, the ww3 if one wants to look at it that way.

Edited Friday at 12:56 PM by cme

[Jwanon]

9 minutes ago, cme said:

Confused?  Why should you be? 

 

You talked about the GT and how the USA will be the last world power, I don't understand why those facts would contradict the possibility of WW3

 

We don't know the specifics of what will happen in the future, just what Jesus said about there being nations rising against nations

Edited Friday at 01:04 PM by Jwanon

[cme]

And, thats exactly what is happening.

[cme]

I might have confused you with ww1 1914.  World war 2 happened in the 1940s.  Sorry.

[Osprey]

 

Certainly interesting ... 

[Shawnster]

1 hour ago, Jwanon said:

You talked about the GT and how the USA will be the last world power

 

When some Witnesses mention the USA as being the last world power, they are thinking about the dream statue in Daniel with the feet of iron mixed with clay. Those feet symbolize the Anglo-American world power.  After this, there are no more world powers. 

 

So yes, in this sense the USA (along with the UK, but people only mention the US) is the final world power. 

 

1 hour ago, Jwanon said:

I don't understand why those facts would contradict the possibility of WW3

 

I my opinion, and others agree, the planet will not survive a third world war. If, in my opinion, the US/NATO would war against Russia, nuclear weapons would be used on a massive scale. A full nuclear war would devestste the planet. There would be no one left to cry peace and security. No one would believe such a cry. The vast majority of people would be dead or dying. 

 

While a third world war is not explicitly impossible according to the Bible, I feel such an event is extremely unlikely since the scriptures indicate there will be a feeling of peace and security prior to the sudden destruction of false religion and the attack on Jehovah's people by a united coalition of nations. 

 

[franceml]

we don´t really know if there will be a WW 3.. but we do know this:

Matt 24:6 You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress. 9 “Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name. 10 Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold. 13 But the one who has endured to the end will be saved. 14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/last-days-sign-end-times-prophecies/

[Dustparticle]

2 hours ago, Osprey said:

 

Certainly interesting ... 

 

India might be the next part on KOTN. If so, huge.

[chuck83]

35 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

If, in my opinion, the US/NATO would war against Russia, nuclear weapons would be used on a massive scale. A full nuclear war would devestste the planet. There would be no one left to cry peace and security. No one would believe such a cry. The vast majority of people would be dead or dying. 

 

 

Just for context, I grew up in a military family by which some are witnesses and war veterans technically. I grew up immersed in a lot of air shows, war/weapons and political/authoritarian documentaries (WWII, Korea, Cold War, nukes & Vietnam), movies (5th Missile), tv shows (MASH.) But I'm neutral!!!

 

With that said, I've always grown up knowing 5-30 minutes depending on if it's submarine or ICBM. Dad and grandpa (elder) always said 6-10 warheads per missile, couple hundred miles off the coast of CA, can hit LA, SD, SF, and defense bases in 15 or less minutes from launch.  So I agree with you.

Edited Friday at 03:35 PM by chuck83

[cme]

Bro. Shawn thats what I meant.  My husband and I were just talking about that.  World war 2 brought the atomic bomb and, if we want to be precise yes, the Anglo-American dual world empire is what I was referring to.

 

If there were to be a world war 3 with all the advancements that man has created "Nuclear Bomb" and God knows what else they have in their arsenals would wipe out the planet.

 

I doubt that Jehovah would allow this.  If he confused the language in Nimrod's days because of what man could do at the time (speaking and communicating in the same language) he disrupted that idea by confusing their language.  How much more so will he act in behalf of mankind today?

 

We serve a loving God, compassionate.  He would not allow this.  Could it happen?  Sure!  Anything could happen.  Man is more wicked then anyone can conceive or imagine.  Will it happen?  Will Jehovah allow it?

 

 

Edited Friday at 03:41 PM by cme

[just1-4all]

And we don't want to "fight" about words ... right? To that end, defining terms is important and more productive for forum conversation. 

 

WW I was only named that in hindsight. It became known as (i.e. labeled as such, called so by historians) as the "Great War" in it's aftermath.

 

The second conflict, another 'great war', arose with many of the same issues to do with alliances vying for power, but yet unresolved in the aftermath of that "Great War".

 

Fast forward to present day, the destructive power of nuclear has complicated the consequences of going to war. That factor has been looming since it's invention and usage during WW II.

 

Jesus' words are becoming more and more true in saying (for those living in this day) would be 'hearing about wars and reports of wars'. More and more people are being affected by such looming threats like never before. 

 

The moniker "World War 3" ... it's a label more likely to be called that by historians and people in it's aftermath.

 

As I see it, the lack of peace produces war-like inner tension felt by all until it's finally resolved. We are blessed to know the only way it will be resolved.

[Watching and Waiting]

The events of the past few days surrounding key "King of the North" players (and maybe some new ones?), breathe some new life into these paragraphs in the w20 May p. 13:

 

               THE KING OF THE NORTH AND THE KING OF THE SOUTH CONTINUE PUSHING

5 Read Daniel 11:40-43. This part of the prophecy provides an overview of the time of the end.

The passage highlights the rivalry between the king of the north and the king of the south. As

foretold by Daniel, in the time of the end, the king of the south would engage with the king of the

north “in a pushing,” or he would “lock horns with him.”—Dan. 11:40; ftn.

 

6 The king of the north and the king of the south continue to compete for world domination. For

example, consider what happened after World War II when the Soviet Union and its allies gained

influence over much of Europe. The actions of the king of the north forced the king of the south

to form an international military alliance, known as NATO. The king of the north continues to

compete with the king of the south in an expensive arms race. The king of the north fought his

rival in proxy wars and insurgencies in Africa, Asia, and Latin America. In recent years, Russia

and its allies have spread their influence across the globe. They have also engaged with the king

of the south in cyber warfare. The kings have accused each other of using destructive computer

programs in an effort to damage their economies and political systems. And as foretold by Daniel,

the king of the north continues his attack on God’s people.—Dan. 11:41."

 

The announcement this AM by V Putin that any Western armies (NATO) that enter Ukraine before a peace treaty is reached  will be considered legitimate targets [or something to that effect] certainly ups the ante after this recent tete a tete  in Beijing.

 

It's all very interesting to watch in view of Bible prophecy that we're so keenly tuned into. 

[Jwanon]

2 hours ago, Shawnster said:

 

When some Witnesses mention the USA as being the last world power, they are thinking about the dream statue in Daniel with the feet of iron mixed with clay. Those feet symbolize the Anglo-American world power.  After this, there are no more world powers. 

 

So yes, in this sense the USA (along with the UK, but people only mention the US) is the final world power. 

 

 

I my opinion, and others agree, the planet will not survive a third world war. If, in my opinion, the US/NATO would war against Russia, nuclear weapons would be used on a massive scale. A full nuclear war would devestste the planet. There would be no one left to cry peace and security. No one would believe such a cry. The vast majority of people would be dead or dying. 

 

While a third world war is not explicitly impossible according to the Bible, I feel such an event is extremely unlikely since the scriptures indicate there will be a feeling of peace and security prior to the sudden destruction of false religion and the attack on Jehovah's people by a united coalition of nations. 

 

 

I see

[Bernadette]

Matt 24:29 if not representing a supernatural phenomenon is a pretty good description of a nuclear winter…

 

If nuclear weapons were deployed no doubt Jehovah would make a way out for his servants and any vast mixed company.  
As the originator of nuclear energy he is certainly the one with the knowledge to repair / reverse any damage done.

Whatever the coming days we all know we have absolutely NOTHING to fear.

Jehovah WILL be with us every step of the way. 
Lets lift up our heads and be positive about the momentary and light tribulation and the days of unsurpassed joy and happiness to come xx

[Osprey]

Well... let me add a few thoughts to this conversation. I remember how it was 15, 20 years ago. Obviously relationship between Russia and western countries was much better than today. But still there were some little tensions (at least by todays standards) here and there. And when something like that happened a lot of experts were screaming that this is not good and it can end in nuclear holocaust. Obviously it didn't. What I mean to say nobody was thinking that huge hostilities can happen involving Russia and the west with no nuclear weapons being used. 

Fast forward to today. We have a huge war that has hundreds of thousands of causalties on both sides. On one side we have Russia, on the other side we have Ukraine, but heavily (and I mean heavily!) supported by western countries with weapons, money, inteligence, satellite data, everything you want. But hey... still no nuclear weapons being used. That is not all. Ukraine strikes deep into mainland Russia (sometimes thousands of kilometres) with drones and even long range missiles sometimes. Hey, Ukraine even occupied parts of Russian territory (remember Kursk?). Still no nuclear weapons were used. If somebody would told us that this would happen 15 years in advance we would be sure that nukes will be deployed.

I can imagine WW3 happen with no nuclear weapons involved. Why? Because all involved sides know that pushing that red button would literally mean end of humanity. Do you see how both sides sometimes are hesitant to escalate the conflict? Today Russian drones can crash into Nato countries or use Nato airspace to strike Ukraine. Nothing happens.

Based on all of that 15 years ago I would share opinion that WW3 would destroy humanity because of nuclear holocaust. Today? I don't think so anymore. Nuclear weapons would probably be used if Russia or USA would be in danger to be destroyed. They may go nuclear in that case. Otherwise I can see a kind of WW3 happening where a lot of countries can suffer badly but still no nuclear weapons being used unless Nato forces stand before Moscow. Even then there would first be a warning strike with tactical missile. Just my opinion. 

But observing what is happening in last 30 years I adjusted my opinion about how WW3 could look like a lot.

Edited Friday at 06:19 PM by Osprey

[Osprey]

In other words thought process kind of shifted. From: "Nobody will dare to attack me because I have nuclear weapons" to "I can go into attack, nobody will dare to stop me because I have nuclear weapons".

[feebee]

"What Does the Bible Say About Nuclear War?" mrt article 111

 

Would God permit nuclear war? The Bible does not say. It does say that "fearful sights", or "terrifying events", would occur in our day (Luke 21:11).

 

Will planet Earth survive? Yes. Even if man were to use nuclear weapons again, God would not allow the situation to escalate to the point of global annihilation."

 

"Politicians Warn of Armageddon - What Does the Bible Say?" mrt article 62

 

Will the earth and its inhabitants be destroyed by nuclear war? No. Although human rulers may use nuclear weapons in the future, God will not allow the earth to be destroyed.

[Dustparticle]

Now he is going on the offense. What wars will the KOTS start?

 

https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/04/politics/department-of-war-trump-executive-order

[Shawnster]

1 hour ago, Dustparticle said:

Now he is going on the offense. What wars will the KOTS start?

 

https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/04/politics/department-of-war-trump-executive-order

 

Interesting. 

 

The department used to be called "The War Department". The name was changed to "The Defense Department" in 1949. 

Edited yesterday at 01:44 AM by Shawnster

[New World Explorer]

I think reality of events and difficulties have shaken President Trump.
He thought that he can solve wars and conflicts with a phone call …

Russia proved to be harder to deal with than expected. 
Then recent events like China, Russia and North Korea meeting changed something… therefore the change in name for department of Defense. 
It will be a very interesting how the final chapter will play out in Gaza conflict, and how they will handle Hamas. 
The way I see it … (others may disagree) things are running towards conclusions very quickly … the world is sick of wars and constant conflicts. Will Jehovah use current situation and plant the thought to hand over authority to UN or maybe it will happen later … ? nonetheless it will be interesting to see how next few months develop and in which direction matters will go. 

[cme]

14 hours ago, Osprey said:

Well... let me add a few thoughts to this conversation. I remember how it was 15, 20 years ago. Obviously relationship between Russia and western countries was much better than today. But still there were some little tensions (at least by todays standards) here and there. And when something like that happened a lot of experts were screaming that this is not good and it can end in nuclear holocaust. Obviously it didn't. What I mean to say nobody was thinking that huge hostilities can happen involving Russia and the west with no nuclear weapons being used. 

Fast forward to today. We have a huge war that has hundreds of thousands of causalties on both sides. On one side we have Russia, on the other side we have Ukraine, but heavily (and I mean heavily!) supported by western countries with weapons, money, inteligence, satellite data, everything you want. But hey... still no nuclear weapons being used. That is not all. Ukraine strikes deep into mainland Russia (sometimes thousands of kilometres) with drones and even long range missiles sometimes. Hey, Ukraine even occupied parts of Russian territory (remember Kursk?). Still no nuclear weapons were used. If somebody would told us that this would happen 15 years in advance we would be sure that nukes will be deployed.

I can imagine WW3 happen with no nuclear weapons involved. Why? Because all involved sides know that pushing that red button would literally mean end of humanity. Do you see how both sides sometimes are hesitant to escalate the conflict? Today Russian drones can crash into Nato countries or use Nato airspace to strike Ukraine. Nothing happens.

Based on all of that 15 years ago I would share opinion that WW3 would destroy humanity because of nuclear holocaust. Today? I don't think so anymore. Nuclear weapons would probably be used if Russia or USA would be in danger to be destroyed. They may go nuclear in that case. Otherwise I can see a kind of WW3 happening where a lot of countries can suffer badly but still no nuclear weapons being used unless Nato forces stand before Moscow. Even then there would first be a warning strike with tactical missile. Just my opinion. 

But observing what is happening in last 30 years I adjusted my opinion about how WW3 could look like a lot.

huh. Do you see the clowns that are leaders?  Do you think they think logically?  Look at the leader of the free world.  Jehovah knows whats in their hearts.  Many years ago there were leaders.  Men that thought before acting and still....we went to war.  Now? 

[JennyM]

8 hours ago, New World Explorer said:

I think reality of events and difficulties have shaken President Trump.
He thought that he can solve wars and conflicts with a phone call …

Russia proved to be harder to deal with than expected. 
Then recent events like China, Russia and North Korea meeting changed something… therefore the change in name for department of Defense. 
It will be a very interesting how the final chapter will play out in Gaza conflict, and how they will handle Hamas. 
The way I see it … (others may disagree) things are running towards conclusions very quickly … the world is sick of wars and constant conflicts. Will Jehovah use current situation and plant the thought to hand over authority to UN or maybe it will happen later … ? nonetheless it will be interesting to see how next few months develop and in which direction matters will go. 

I hope so bro. I hope this is the last campaign of God's Kingdom. If not yet, holy spirit will help us to endure. 

One elder here, had a stroke, then got depressed and died. 

 

Edited yesterday at 01:13 PM by JennyM

[lord21]

This is not the last campaign. The war in Ukraine is not over yet for this to be the last campaign.

The war in Ukraine must end and peaceful conditions must come, so that in those territories where people have not heard the good news openly for a long time (because those territories are under temporary occupation), they can hear the good news. I am sure that there are still those who can accept the good news. Even there will not be so many of them. Every person is valuable to Jehovah. 

[Shawnster]

26 minutes ago, lord21 said:

The war in Ukraine is not over yet for this to be the last campaign.

 

There are, at this moment, over 120 armed conflicts raging. There will be wars happening when Peace and Security is declared. Perhaps the cessation of all wars will be the indication the prophecy is fulfilled. 

 

 

[lord21]

21 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

 

There are, at this moment, over 120 armed conflicts raging. There will be wars happening when Peace and Security is declared. Perhaps the cessation of all wars will be the indication the prophecy is fulfilled. 

 

 

You live in a peaceful country and you cannot fully understand me. I live with the war for three and a half years and 11 years since it all started.

Jehovah protected my life 11 years ago, three years ago when I had to make a choice about which city to move to. I would not have survived if I had chosen the wrong city. But Jehovah knew which cities and areas would be safe.

I continue to trust in Jehovah, knowing that no matter how many air alarms and dangerous missiles were flying, he would save me.

My words may upset some, but let me give you an example: when a missile hit one of the houses, Jehovah miraculously saved the lives of my brother and his wife in the house next door. The glass windows flew into the room, but they survived. Does this not show that Jehovah can preserve the lives of his servants if he deems it necessary to do so in order to fulfill his will?

I am sure that he does.