Peace and Security, Great Tribulation, Armageddon

[Dolce vita]

19 hours ago, Doug said:

« Aller au-delà des choses écrites » ? Mais c’est aussi écrit. Et le GB est entré dans les détails pour nous l'expliquer.

 

Certains des Fr. Commentaires de Splane : « J'aimerais discuter de la façon dont les paroles de Jésus dans Mt. 24 :34 ont une incidence sur l'approche de la fin de ce système de choses.

                                                         "Ainsi, la génération ne passera pas avant que la grande tribulation n'arrive. C'est intéressant. Cela nous concerne".

                                                         "Mais nous devons savoir de quelle génération particulière Jésus parlait" ?

                                                         « Commencez-vous à voir à quel point tout cela est lié à l'urgence de notre époque » ?

                                                         "Maintenant, ceux du deuxième groupe de la génération vieillissent. Certains d'entre nous montrent notre âge.

 

Et le fr. Flodin : "Nous repensons immédiatement à l'édition JW Broadcasting de septembre 2015. Le Frère Splane l' a magistralement expliqué".

"Et considérez ce point important. Il n'y a rien, rien, dans la prophétie de Jésus qui suggère que ceux du deuxième groupe, vivant au moment de la fin, seraient tous vieux, décrépits et proches de la mort. Il n'y a aucune référence à l'âge".

I believe that those who are waiting with excitement for the GT - and I am definitely one of them - could be compared to those who need the doctor to come, for themselves or for the people they love. They know that the doctor will come during the day but he has not specified at what time. They want more than anything to be relieved of their suffering, so they stand in front of the window and watch for every car that passes. Is it him? Yes it's him. Ah, finally no, it's not him, the car continued on its way. Isn't it the next one? Yes, it is slowing down, but again it is not the time. They will wait until he arrives, he promised it would be today he never broke his word. And the hope of seeing it arrive any minute will help them keep going all day. I think that's just it, at least for me. And if I have to make roots in front of the window I hope that I will always find one of my brothers and sisters around me to water them.

[Dolce vita]

19 hours ago, truce said:

Quiz: How would you explain the meaning of "this generation" to someone in the ministry?

 

Tip: Do so without making reference to Frederick Franz and 1992.

So straight up, brother Truce, I will say: 'the next Jehovah's Witness who passes by will be very happy to explain it to you'. Bye

[Sofia]

Important politicians realize the alliance called KOTN:

 

[Landon1285]

United Nations demands humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza despite being vetoed by the US a week ago. Looks like the teeth are trying to come out. 

https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/ocBaQx

[Sofia]

15 minutes ago, Landon1285 said:

United Nations demands humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza despite being vetoed by the US a week ago. Looks like the teeth are trying to come out. 

https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/ocBaQx

The only trouble is that the General Assembly doesn’t have power at all. Any resolution has no biding effect. It only shows the opinion of each country on the subject.

UN s teeth are in the security council which is ruled by the will of 5 powers. Each one of these 5 nations represent the will of their rulers/presidents.

for the while these 5 nations have no will to change anything.

perhaps the UN reform process will occur only with different presidents of these 5 nations.

[Sofia]

Tonight at CNN Portugal we assisted interesting comments from a few professors.

clearly stated that:

1) the KOTN is an alliance of Russia China north corea and iran

2) they 4 hate eachothers but have a comum enemy: the Anglo American power 

3) the Anglo American power is the most powerful existing. And to

keep its position it needs to defeat Russia in Ukraine war

4) money must be given to Ukraine to win the war. If Ukraine loses then USA loses its hegemony in the World and the 4 alliance countries will continue their intentions of  invasion and perhaps NATO will be involved more directly soon against them.

5) USA are divided. Both parties think  differently about financing Ukraine.

 

when I see the news I see Daniel prophecy.

its so close now.

[Landon1285]

9 minutes ago, Sofia said:

The only trouble is that the General Assembly doesn’t have power at all. Any resolution has no biding effect. It only shows the opinion of each country on the subject.

UN s teeth are in the security council which is ruled by the will of 5 powers. Each one of these 5 nations represent the will of their rulers/presidents.

for the while these 5 nations have no will to change anything.

perhaps the UN reform process will occur only with different presidents of these 5 nations.

You are right it doesn't have direct executive power. Its resolutions are non-binding, and decisions on significant matters often require approval from the Security Council, where certain member states hold veto power. The General Assembly's strength lies in its ability to shape international norms, promote dialogue, and address a wide range of global concerns through its various committees and sessions.

 

So baby teeth? 👶 

[Sofia]

My understanding from Revelation chapter 17 and the current UNSC configuration is that all 5 members with veto power need to agree on the given subject being submitted.

REV.17:13”These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast”

(New Living Translation
They will all agree to give him their power and authority.)

Contemporary English Version
They all think alike and will give their power and authority to the beast

 

REV.17:17”For God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought, yes, to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished”

Contemporary English Version
God is the one who made these kings all think alike and decide to give their power to the beast. And they will do this until what God has said comes true

 

So I have to conclude that if no change untill then, I mean if no UN reform is done, all 5 veto power members must agree that BTG must be stripped off from its wealth and then destroyed.

From Revelation words it seems that the World powers ( if not all at least the majority) will be unanimous on this matter.

 

if we think about this … why does UN need a reform anyway 🤷‍♀️. If Jehovah wants…he will make all 5 think alike and that’s all it’s needed.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Sofia

[Sofia]

45 minutes ago, Landon1285 said:

United Nations demands humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza despite being vetoed by the US a week ago. 

It just has been aproved in UNGA.

but it has no biding effect.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Sofia

[Shannie]

[Sweet Tooth]

1 hour ago, Sofia said:

Important politicians realize the alliance called KOTN:

“Four allied antagonists at the same time—Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran” - “Russia and its Allies” is the KOTN. How about the BRICS nations,  do we need to them as well @Sofia? 

[Sofia]

4 minutes ago, Niel said:

“Four allied antagonists at the same time—Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran” - “Russia and its Allies” is the KOTN. How about the BRICS nations,  do we need to them as well @Sofia? 

For now politicians state these 4 are major powers. The other BRICS look insignificant for the moment.

But apostle Paul wrote that the scene of this world changes fast.

 

Daniel prophecy is in fullfilment

Many TV expert comments are tuned with GB statements.

Of course we didn’t need that.

But most assertive experts comments are in fine tuning with Bible prophecy. 
This gives us hope that the end is so close 

[Sweet Tooth]

59 minutes ago, Sofia said:

UN s teeth are in the security council which is ruled by the will of 5 powers. Each one of these 5 nations represent the will of their rulers/presidents.

I will borrow Bro. Morris’ words from the recent Annual Meeting: We dont know. 
 

“We don't know” if the Security Council would still exist after UN’s restructuring. 
 

Where do the teeth come from? Is it from the Security Council or the collective minds of the nations which Jehovah will do in the near future. Modestly I will say: We dont know. 
 

Leonard Myers: The book of Revelation tells us what will soon happen. The political rulers of the world will give the United Nations unprecedented power and authority. The apostle Paul foretold that the nations will declare "Peace and security!" But it won't prove to be true peace. The nations supporting the UN will attack the institutions of false religion. Then a coalition of earth's governments that the prophet Ezekiel calls "Gog of the land of Magog" will attack God's people.

 

Jehovah Guides Us in the Way of Peace—Part 2

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/2022Convention/pub-wpc_2_VIDEO

 

 

 

 

 

[Desert Dan]

Not sure if anyone watched or listened to the live United Nations assembly today.  Some of the short speeches AFTER the resolution was passed, from a number of countries, were very condemning of some of the Western Nations who voted against progress in the pass.   "Peace & Security" mentioned a number of times from various countries, but that is not unusual as we know.   There were tons of comments on the side while it was running live, people quoting P&S and the famous scripture (and then all their (misled) thoughts of what was going to happen).   I am not claiming this meeting had any significance to us in the whole scheme of things, but it was at least interesting.   I will let others comment if they saw it.   Still no agreement yet on having "2 states".   Many of the drafts not adopted though. 

 

 

 

Israel-Gaza latest news: UN General Assembly to vote on call for Gaza ceasefire - BBC News

UN backs demand for immediate Gaza ceasefire

The UN General Assembly has overwhelmingly adopted a non-binding resolution demanding an immediate "humanitarian ceasefire" in Gaza.

153 member states voted in favour, 10 against and there were 23 abstentions.

This was a second attempt by the UN General Assembly which in October had called for "a humanitarian truce" in a resolution adopted with 121 votes in favour, 14 against and 44 abstentions.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Desert Dan

[Sweet Tooth]

47 minutes ago, Sofia said:

They will all agree

Funny isnt @Sofia? One morning worship talk at Bethel I remember it says: the are united yet divided. Irony of this system of things. 

[Sofia]

51 minutes ago, Sofia said:

I have to conclude that if no change untill then, I mean if no UN reform is done, all 5 veto power members must agree that BTG must be stripped off from its wealth and then destroyed.

Thanks @Niel 💖

that’s why I wrote above.

we don’t know.

but if we think about it…a reform  it s not needed to accomplish Jehovahs will. Jehovah will put in their hearts the same wish ☺️

Edited December 12, 2023 by Sofia

[Sofia]

5 minutes ago, Niel said:

Funny isnt @Sofia? One morning worship talk at Bethel I remember it says: the are united yet divided. Irony of this system of things. 

Today I heard a professor on tv saying that Russia China north-Korea and Iran hate eachothers. They are divided politically. But all 4 have the same thought: to defeat the Anglo American power. They do what’s necessary to overthrow its power.

I believe the same will happen against BTG 

They will joins efforts to defeat it to achieve a common goal even if all are different in politics.

[ChrisW]

17 minutes ago, Desert Dan said:

Some of the short speeches AFTER the resolution was passed, from a number of countries, were very condemning of some of the Western Nations who voted against progress in the pass.   

I caught the last of the speeches. Very hypocritical by a specific country who is as we speak persecuting our brothers and invading Ukraine. 

[Doug]

5 hours ago, trottigy said:

 

I take them to our webiste wol.jw.org and look for the purple book we studied titled "God's Kingdom Rules!" and take them to Chapter 1 page 12 and show them this picture. Then I expalin this is how we undestand this to mean - would you like to review this first chapter with me?

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102014240#h=19

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT - from paragraph 18:

 

 

 

Speaking in general terms and not on the topic of "this generation", when someone asks about our beliefs, would you go to the latest understanding?

 

God's Kingdom Rules! came out in 2014. And it's interesting that the book addresses "this generation" in the very first chapter. The following year, Br Splane presented much more detail on the September 2015 broadcast.  Did the slave feel the explanation offered in par. 14-18 was inadequate, that it left us with more questions than answers?  For Br Splane to follow up on the God's Kingdom book so quickly, and Br Flodin used the same video because he couldn't say it any better, tells me the slave has a keen interest in Jesus statement.   And why wouldn't they?

[trottigy]

39 minutes ago, Doug said:

 

Speaking in general terms and not on the topic of "this generation", when someone asks about our beliefs, would you go to the latest understanding?

 

God's Kingdom Rules! came out in 2014. And it's interesting that the book addresses "this generation" in the very first chapter. The following year, Br Splane presented much more detail on the September 2015 broadcast.  Did the slave feel the explanation offered in par. 14-18 was inadequate, that it left us with more questions than answers?  For Br Splane to follow up on the God's Kingdom book so quickly, and Br Flodin used the same video because he couldn't say it any better, tells me the slave has a keen interest in Jesus statement.   And why wouldn't they?

 

That would not be the first nor the last time that a difficult to understand topic was reviewed.

 

Bro Splane did not give any "new" information on the meaning of "this generation". He did provide some examples and did his best to make things “clearer”.

 

We just had a nice talk at this recent annual meeting where we reviewed information we've known for decades in relation to "Is Jehovah asking too much of us to "love him with our whole heart mind, soul, and strength"?" It was beautiful, but - just because we get a talk to make things simpler for us to understand - it does not indicate that everything we thought previous was "inadequate".

 

So, YES I would go to our current understanding - as laid out in that book OR the Jan 15, 2014 Watchtower where that same information was written. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2014047#h=25

 

 

 EDIT: I know we talked AT LENGTH about this when the 2014 magazine came out. It is interesting that the 2008 Watchtower that discusses "contemporaries” is what is listed as the date for the update https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200277174#h=162

 

you'll note in this link - our discussion noted that this was really just a continuation of that from 2008.

 

 

Quote

As a class, these anointed ones make up the modern-day “generation” of contemporaries that will not pass away “until all these things occur.”

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2008125#h=20

Watchtower 2008 Feb 15 page 24

 

and again in 2010 - 

Quote

He evidently meant that the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2010282#h=18

Watchtower 2010 April 15 page 10

 

OK, but enough about "this generation - there are plenty of better places to have that discussion.

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by trottigy

[Doug]

11 minutes ago, trottigy said:

 

That would not be the first nor the last time that a difficult to understand topic was reviewed.

 

Bro Splane did not give any "new" information on the meaning of "this generation". He did provide some examples and did his best to make things “clearer”.

 

We had a nice talk at this annual meeting where we reviewed information we've known for decades in relation to "Is Jehovah asking too much of us to "love him with our whole heart mind, soul, and strength"?" It was beautiful, but - just because we get a talk to make things simpler for us to understand - it does not indicate that everything we thought previous was "inadequate".

 

So, YES I would go to our current understanding - as laid out in that book OR the Jan 15, 2014 Watchtower where that same information was written. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2014047#h=25

 

 

Okay     I must be missing something.  2014 book.  2014 Watchtower.  2015 Broadcast.   Tamato -Tomato.

 

In the book, the graphic suggests what I would call a substantial overlap between the two groups.  That is subjective, of course.

Br Splane went so far as to say if a baby is born ten minutes after someone dies, then that someone and the baby were never part of the same generation.  And if the baby is born ten minutes before someone dies, they are part of the same generation.

[JennyM]

No other time in history of the modern world that military leaders have heightened fears in the current situation now.   The pushing of world powers may result to damaging consequences that's why soon Jehovah will intervene. 

Before the Ukraine war, they talked peace on the table. 

Before the current gaza -Israel, war they talked peace prior to it.  

 

How about the next peace talk between all nations? What would they be thinking? nuclear war? Is that the reason why Jehovah will intervene? 

 

May God's kingdom come! 

[Richie]

2 hours ago, Niel said:

“Four allied antagonists at the same time—Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran” - “Russia and its Allies” is the KOTN. How about the BRICS nations,  do we need to them as well @Sofia? 

So far I don't see BRICS will play a role in the prophecy. Let see... 

[Pabo]

2 hours ago, Sofia said:

Today I heard a professor on tv saying that Russia China north-Korea and Iran hate eachothers. They are divided politically. But all 4 have the same thought: to defeat the Anglo American power. They do what’s necessary to overthrow its power.

 

It reminds me of the saying "An enemy of my friend, is a friend of mine".

 

However, it is interesting to see that the China's Yuan currency is gaining some ground in being used for international transactions. It has been said when the Russians are receiving payment for their goods, they are asking for it to be in Yuan currency, thus trying to bypass the sanctions that they have against them., as they are trying to recieve Yuan from their customers, but buying things they need in Yuan as well. So whilst Russian is showing that it is not suffereing economically, when in fact the figures could be somewhat incorrect with some of the transactions not really showing up in their accounts as the Yuan transactions may not have been accounted for or that they tinker with the exchange rate values to give them a more positive figure.

 

Whilst China and North Korea has more things in common connection, but China is the go-between but only using it as a commercial transactions when it deals with Russia, North Korea and possibly Iran, mainly due to sanctions against those 3 countries. However, Iran is somewhat an outlyer in most accounts as it is a muslim country (which the other 3 parties despise). Russia is a promoted now as a Christian country, but China does not want within their borders. North Korea has no real sway technologically or commercially, but are milltary focused (mostly because those that are in the armed forces are in it because it is about the only way to get a bowl of rice each day to eat) and will probably send their citizens off as cannon fodder for the Chinese.

[Tortuga]

19 minutes ago, Pabo said:

reminds me of the saying "An enemy of my friend, is a friend of mine".

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" ?