Gun Culture - US versus the World

[New World Explorer]

7 minutes ago, Frances Bennett said:

 

I definitely can see what you are saying here, in that guns in mentally stable people's hands pose less threat (the threat only being from accidents).

 

The problem is that we don't live in a mentally stable society.

 

Countless news reports testify that the mental health of most shooters is compromised, and that the mental health status of the individual was known prior to the incident. This website is eye opening:

 

https://www.ssristories.net/

 

People with mental health issues should not be given access to guns.

 

As guns are everywhere in America and mentally ill people are everywhere the only solution is remove the guns.

 

I'm in the UK. Access to guns is very limited. I see how people behave and I know what would happen here if access to guns were increased.

 

It baffles me why America continues to allow such open gun access when the results are so shocking...oh no wait...I'm not baffled at all, Satan and the demons are running the show, they love child sacrifice and always have.

 

Leviticus 18:21

 

‘You must not allow any of your offspring to be offered to Moʹlech. You must not profane the name of your God in that way. I am Jehovah"

 

Same false gods, different millennium.

According to this article below:

If serious mental illnesses suddenly disappeared, violence would decrease by only about 4%

Even mass shooters, who might seem most likely to be driven by mental illness, don’t necessarily suffer from major psychiatric disorders. Arguably one of the best such reports on the topic, conducted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, found that only 25% of such assailants had a diagnosed mental illness. https://www.aamc.org/news/it-s-tempting-say-gun-violence-about-mental-illness-truth-much-more-complex

[carlos]

I compare this firearms thing with bullfighting. Everyone realizes that torturing an animal to death for fun is wrong, except people in Spain who have been taught that way since childhood and view it as normal. In all the civilized world it's obvious that it's not a good idea to allow any idiot to buy a gun at the supermarket, yet in the US that is a hot political issue.

 

On the other hand, where I live it's quite difficult for a decent citizen to obtain a gun, and yet criminals have no problem to get them.

[Frances Bennett]

4 hours ago, New World Explorer said:

According to this article below:

If serious mental illnesses suddenly disappeared, violence would decrease by only about 4%

Even mass shooters, who might seem most likely to be driven by mental illness, don’t necessarily suffer from major psychiatric disorders. Arguably one of the best such reports on the topic, conducted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, found that only 25% of such assailants had a diagnosed mental illness. https://www.aamc.org/news/it-s-tempting-say-gun-violence-about-mental-illness-truth-much-more-complex

 

Thank you for the link

 

Yes I've read articles like this before.

 

I don't 100% agree with it though. It's very carefully written.

 

Take the quotes you posted.

 

"If serious mental illnesses suddenly disappeared"

 

Who decides what is "serious"?

 

"Only 25% of assailants had a diagnosed mental illness" (note too that they are talking about "major psychiatric disorders" according to the article)

 

Do you believe that the fact they were undiagnosed means that they didn't have any mental illness?

 

Did you read the information on the link I posted?

The FDA has warned that any abrupt change in dose whether starting on
increasing or decreasing or discontinuing the drug, skipping doses by forgetting, or when switching from one antidepressant to another where you are both abruptly decreasing one antidepressant AND abruptly increasing the new antidepressant can cause suicide, hostility or psychosis

These drugs are prescribed for mental illnesses definitely not classed as "serious" and yet the side effects can resemble very serious mental illness.

 

The website is actually old and outdated now, it hasn't been updated for years and yet still contains over 5000 news stories of "antidepressant-induced violence and bizarre behavior."

 

I knew about it as I was researching the subject after my very placid, peaceful and loving cousin became violent and agitated whilst on SSRIs. His personality completely changed. He was extremely volatile. He was given the drugs to get him over his sadness after a relationship broke down. Once off the drugs his personality returned to normal.

 

He was not diagnosed with a "serious" mental health condition, just mild depression, yet I would say that had he not recognised the "side effects" and stopped his medication he may well have developed further mental health issues. Who knows what might have happened if he was living in a country where guns were easy to get hold of.

 

There are many people campaigning to have this issue bought more into the light in many countries around the world.

 

So in this time of the end where mental health conditions are prevalent, in a country where drugs that can have dangerous side effects are prescribed very often, surely restrictions on fire arms would be sensible.

 

Just to be clear I am not saying that every mentally ill person is dangerous, far from it!

 

I would suggest though that every person who commits the kind of violent acts we are talking about in this thread could potentially be mentally ill in some way. A person with a mind that is healthy wouldn't be able to do these kinds of atrocities.

 

 

Edited January 8 by Frances Bennett

[Hope]

4 hours ago, carlos said:

I compare this firearms thing with bullfighting. Everyone realizes that torturing an animal to death for fun is wrong, except people in Spain who have been taught that way since childhood and view it as normal. In all the civilized world it's obvious that it's not a good idea to allow any idiot to buy a gun at the supermarket, yet in the US that is a hot political issue.

 

On the other hand, where I live it's quite difficult for a decent citizen to obtain a gun, and yet criminals have no problem to get them.

Excellent analogy. People in the US would lose their minds over bullfighting or anything that abuses animals. Blow away babies at school, however? Well, that's a constitutional right, if one feels like exercising it evidently.

 

Thing is - most of these mass shooters are not criminals until they shoot everybody.  Before that, they can aquire guns at will. 😒

[Qapla]

While it does seem like someone would have to be crazy to mass kill, many of the ones who have done this have never been diagnosed/categorized/deemed to be mentally ill. Some of them are just locked into their ideology or mad at someone/something.

 

While taking away their guns may prevent mass shootings, as has been seen in other parts of the world, it only takes several bags of fertilizer and fuel to make a car bomb - and even just the vehicle can be used to mass kill by driving it into a crowd ... and these things have been done more outside the US than inside.

 

Blaming mass killings on guns is like blaming Walmart self-checkout for the theft instead of blaming the thieves. The blame for the mass killings is not the method used, be that guns, bombs or cars ... it is Satan and his wicked system.

 

Gun control or bans is not the answer ... Jehovah's Kingdom is the answer.

 

[Hope]

...also - reducing such easy access to guns. 😕 

Edited January 8 by Hope

[New World Explorer]

4 hours ago, Frances Bennett said:

I would suggest though that every person who commits the kind of violent acts we are talking about in this thread could potentially be mentally ill in some way. A person with a mind that is healthy wouldn't be able to do these kinds of atrocities.

You know who is the biggest mass killer? 

 

Adam and Eve, sane as crystal drop of water. 

Despite that.

They have committed future billions of their offspring to death.

Decision was made in full capacity of healthy mental powers, and yet the biggest atrocities we see today are nothing in comparison what "healthy" Adam and Eve have done. 

In fact they were a pinnacle of healthy mind, nobody else after them experienced perfection and healthy mind. 

The point I am making that mental sickness, and acts of wickedness are not necessary connected. 

 

Rather, a heart condition is. 

A wicked heart is not necessary closely associated with mental sickness. 

 

The Bible lists the attitudes of people during last days:

But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power.

 

Those attitudes are not the outcome of mental sickness, but spring out from bad heart condition. 
 

Job 9:24 The earth has been handed over to the wicked.

[Hope]

^^^agreed.  And one's heart motivates the mind far more than the other way round.  Evil is not a mental disorder, it's a rotten heart condition.

[Frances Bennett]

52 minutes ago, New World Explorer said:

You know who is the biggest mass killer? 

 

Adam and Eve, sane as crystal drop of water. 

Despite that.

They have committed future billions of their offspring to death.

Decision was made in full capacity of healthy mental powers, and yet the biggest atrocities we see today are nothing in comparison what "healthy" Adam and Eve have done. 

In fact they were a pinnacle of healthy mind, nobody else after them experienced perfection and healthy mind. 

The point I am making that mental sickness, and acts of wickedness are not necessary connected. 

 

Rather, a heart condition is. 

A wicked heart is not necessary closely associated with mental sickness. 

 

The Bible lists the attitudes of people during last days:

But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power.

 

Those attitudes are not the outcome of mental sickness, but spring out from bad heart condition. 
 

Job 9:24 The earth has been handed over to the wicked.

 

Of course, of course.

 

I never said every atrocity was the result of diagnosable mental illness. I think I said that the perpetrators could potentially be mentally ill in some ways, and I can see that is true in many cases.

 

In line with your reasoning though,  Adam and Eve actively chose wickedness, they are deserving of eternal destruction. They sinned against the spirit. Their wicked choices impacted on their offspring making them all, to one extent or another, deficient. This includes their mental health.

 

Every single person on the planet thereafter (except Jesus) was therefore the owner of an unhealthy mind, to one extent or another.

 

Therefore every act of wickednesssince Adam and Eve has been carried out by an unhealthy mind.

 

Since Adam and Eve nobody has truly been able to choose wickedness from a mind "sane as a crystal drop of water".

 

So that's why even those who practiced vile things will be resurrected.

 

In fact, I personally think it might be hard, at this end things, to find someone who isn't completely and utterly messed up in some way. A lot of criminals are simply deeply, deeply disturbed.

 

This in no way is an excuse for the behaviour, it is merely a reason for it.

 

 

[Frances Bennett]

PS: I think we might be going severely off topic and don't want to get my knuckles rapped - hehe 😉

 

[hatcheckgirl]

On 1/9/2024 at 3:32 AM, Hope said:

...also - reducing such easy access to guns. 😕 

I think this really nails it. Was reading today in Luke, and this thought interested me from the Research guide (Awake!, July 8, 1991 Self-Defense—How Far Can a Christian Go?) 

 

Quote

It is noteworthy that having a weapon available, Peter impetuously used it. Jesus strongly rebuked him for this rash act with the words: “All those who take the sword will perish by the sword.”—Matthew 26:36, 47-56; Luke 22:36-38, 49-51.

The availability was the first problem. The second was the disposition of the one wielding the weapon.

 

If the weapon is not available, then you can’t kill. (Or you can, but you have to use brute force and that sort of means you really are a murderous lunatic who wants to kill, but can’t do mass killings in one go).

 

Would any of the mass murders in the USA, the ones in France, the one in Norway, Christchurch have happened without availability to guns? No. The person still had a problem mentally (deranged, angry at the system, unbalanced), but couldn’t really hurt more than one person at a time before he was caught. Mass shootings only happen when both factors (availability and disposition) occur together.

 

BTW, suicides can be thwarted by hiding weapons, knives, etc - and that is the recommendation of psychologists and psychiatrists to families living with deeply depressed suicidal members. In jail that have a suicide watch for similarly minded detainees. The availability of a possible suicide weapon (sheet, shoelace etc) has to be taken away.

 

But as far as gun control in the USA is concerned, I can’t see it happening. Ultimately, even in countries with strict gun controls, criminals still have access to illegal ones. Or farmers with legal guns go rogue. It can’t be fixed in this system.