J. W.'s ordered to pay more than $20 million

[stuagu]

The issue of child sexual abuse touches very, very close to my heart. I will leave it at that.

That being said...

While I understand our emotional reaction to seeing Jehovah's name being dragged through the dirt, let's not forget that there was a 9-year-old girl here who suffered the unthinkable, life-altering trauma of being sexually abused. She is now 26, and she is living with the scars of that abuse. I know a lot about her scars. Neither money nor legal victories will heal them; only Jehovah's kingdom can do that.

This story is a tragedy all the way around. There is no questioning that fact. But in our haste to point out the excessive and misplaced punishment, please don't forget that this woman is a victim. She has every right to demand justice from the person who did this. I just wish it had remained in that context: HE did this, NOT the brothers.

this! i was thinking this as i was reading the thread and well done dawn, you put it much better than i could.

[Joey]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/jury-hung-charges-priest-abuse-trial-16611450#.T-IJyBevLTo

Jury Hung on Most Charges in Pa. Priest Abuse Case

...

Monsignor William Lynn is the first U.S. church official ever charged with crimes for his handling of clergy-abuse complaints.

Lynn, 61, is charged with conspiracy and child endangerment for allegedly helping the Roman Catholic church cover up abuse complaints. Lynn served as secretary for clergy in the Philadelphia archdiocese from 1992 to 2004. He faces up to 21 years in prison if convicted.

Brennan, 48, is charged with attempted rape and child endangerment for his alleged abuse of a 14-year-old boy during an overnight at the priest's apartment in 1996.

Another priest, the Rev. Edward Avery, pleaded guilty to sexual assault before trial and is in prison. Lynn is charged with endangering his victim and Brennan's accuser.

...

Here we have a church official who did hide and permit A PRIEST to continue as one and covered up complaints and the jury is hung / can't decide???

They came to a decision......

Philadelphia priest sex abuse trial: Monsignor William Lynn convicted of child endangerment .

Monsignor William Lynn, a Roman Catholic church official, has been convicted of child endangerment but acquitted of conspiracy in a groundbreaking clergy-abuse trial in Philadelphia.

Lynn is the first U.S. church official convicted of a crime for how he handled sex-abuse accusations.

Defense lawyers say he tried to document the claims, get priests into treatment and alert his bishop to problem priests. Lynn says the cardinal was the ultimate authority on what happened to the priests.

CBS NEWS

[Brother_Bliss]

Would it be okay to print out the posts in this thread? I would like to give these responses to a sister in our hall who has been feeling a bit stumbled over this court case. I've been prayerfully trying to think of encouraging and scriptural things to say to her, but I think the responses and posts in this thread will really help.

Sure. The news forum is public anyway. You could send her a link and she can read them all herself.

The "Print View" link at the bottom of the page will convert the screen into a nice PDF for printing or emailing.

[CMWYW]

Would it be okay to print out the posts in this thread? I would like to give these responses to a sister in our hall who has been feeling a bit stumbled over this court case. I've been prayerfully trying to think of encouraging and scriptural things to say to her, but I think the responses and posts in this thread will really help.

I would also show the sister this site

Right up until this recent court case every judge and jury had seen how effective our child abuse policy is and seen the education that we have given parents to help protect our children. Unfortunately some child abusers are so sly about what they do it doesn't matter what you do they will still get through somehow.

It is a shame that the person who was seeking justice went for our organization instead of going for her perpatrator. Even letting her alledged offender get away with paying nothing of the fine and even though our organization has been fined for a criminal act that someone else committed. The one who committed the abuse still seems to be un-arrested and not convicted of any crime against her yet.

It is a wierd case that has so many weird things about it I don't really understand how the Jury came to the decision they did. The abuse against the person hasn't even been proven yet. Also the 1989 elders letter has been twisted too mean something different than it actually says. We have always said it is perfectly okay for victims and parents to tell the authourities if a crime has happened against them or their children. That site helped me understand our consistant view of child abuse and reporting.

Hope that site helps your friend.

[Jellybean]

Bob, thank you so much for directing me to that little "Print View" button, I had not noticed it before!

I've saved this thread (hopefully) as a pdf file which I will try to email her.

[Jellybean]

Simon, about that link.... I'm a bit hesitant to send her too much stuff as she's already feeling overwhelmed and quite upset over this. I've been telling her to pray and leave it in Jehovah's hands because after all, he knows how to best use this circumstance for his ultimate glory.

I will take a look at that website and see if there's anything which might help her.

[Micah]

This week's study article is perfect for this. Jehovah knows how to deliver his people. It may delay, but will never be late.

[SOHCAHTOA]

The issue of child sexual abuse touches very, very close to my heart. I will leave it at that.

That being said...

While I understand our emotional reaction to seeing Jehovah's name being dragged through the dirt, let's not forget that there was a 9-year-old girl here who suffered the unthinkable, life-altering trauma of being sexually abused. She is now 26, and she is living with the scars of that abuse. I know a lot about her scars. Neither money nor legal victories will heal them; only Jehovah's kingdom can do that.

This story is a tragedy all the way around. There is no questioning that fact. But in our haste to point out the excessive and misplaced punishment, please don't forget that this woman is a victim. She has every right to demand justice from the person who did this. I just wish it had remained in that context: HE did this, NOT the brothers.

^this.

Also I'm wondering would if it be a better public relations strategy to sue the offender rather appeal the ruling. The society can sue this perv misrepresenting himself. We all have to go through a bible study and answer questions for baptismal. This guy told members who represent the organization that he wanted to serve Jehovah and that he was living a clean lifestyle. Obviously that was a lie and he was just trying to find easy excess to children. It' s kind of like a breech of contract, he was allowed to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses based on his lies. If anyone knew he was a pedophile, he would of been disfellowshipped a long time ago. I think the society should sue him for misrepresenting himself and therefore causing them damage.

[CMWYW]

Simon, about that link.... I'm a bit hesitant to send her too much stuff as she's already feeling overwhelmed and quite upset over this. I've been telling her to pray and leave it in Jehovah's hands because after all, he knows how to best use this circumstance for his ultimate glory.

I will take a look at that website and see if there's anything which might help her.

Hi Dana,

That website helped me understand quite a lot about our consistant stance on how we deal with child abuse and reporting it too authourities. It took faithfull brothers a considerable amount of time to compile all the articles, elders letters and court information to explain and show that we have never stopped anybody reporting. We educate families and the elders to deal with it properly and we keep an eye on perpatrators even if they move to different congregations.

Also the thing that i found quite interesting was the one time that a person was ordered to pay a sum of around $150,000 to the society because they were found to be libeling we kindly declined it and didn't want the money.

If you don't want to show your friend too much information then I understand. The recent court case has affected us all I think. It is not nice when somebody accuses you of being responsible for something that you didn't do.

I am afraid that there will be some that will get stumbled over this. The best defence is to be educated about everything we have ever printed about child abuse so they understand the truth in relation to this issue.

Take care and continue encouraging your friend to pray about this.

[Brother_Bliss]

Also I'm wondering would if it be a better public relations strategy to sue the offender rather appeal the ruling. The society can sue this perv misrepresenting himself. We all have to go through a bible study and answer questions for baptismal. This guy told members who represent the organization that he wanted to serve Jehovah and that he was living a clean lifestyle. Obviously that was a lie and he was just trying to find easy excess to children. It' s kind of like a breech of contract, he was allowed to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses based on his lies. If anyone knew he was a pedophile, he would of been disfellowshipped a long time ago. I think the society should sue him for misrepresenting himself and therefore causing them damage.

Thousands of people are disfelloshipped every year for misrepresenting themselves and/or Jehovah God. No sense in suing them. We don't need a "public relations strategy" either.

Also, becoming one of Jehovah's Witnesses doesn't give a predator easy access to children. The very notion is retarded.

[trottigy]

The reason for the ruling going the way it did - according to the article was:

The jury found that the elders who managed the Fremont congregation in the 1990s and who were under the supervision of Watchtower knew that Kendrick' date=' a member, had recently been convicted of the sexual abuse of another child, but they [b']kept his past record secret from the congregation, said Simons.

So, will we be required to post on the information board all "registered" sex offenders in the area - or any member in the congregation who was ever convicted of being a sex offender? Will ALL churches have this requirement? This should be interesting. In the City where I live there is a website one can go to to see all the "registered" offenders, but people move in and out of the City. I wonder how anyone - even law enforcement - is able to keep up. This site even lists their address. http://www.cityofhenderson.com/police/offenders/index.php Here is a sample of the map: - http://citymaps.cityofhenderson.com/imf/imf.jsp?site=PoliceOffender

[trottigy]

Here is the area where I live. I live across from that Mission Hills Park and there aren't any 2 tier or 3 nearby, but look at how many 1s and 2s near the high school:

[trottigy]

We need the new system and soon

[JSellenger]

Also I'm wondering would if it be a better public relations strategy to sue the offender rather appeal the ruling. The society can sue this perv misrepresenting himself. We all have to go through a bible study and answer questions for baptismal. This guy told members who represent the organization that he wanted to serve Jehovah and that he was living a clean lifestyle. Obviously that was a lie and he was just trying to find easy excess to children. It' s kind of like a breech of contract, he was allowed to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses based on his lies. If anyone knew he was a pedophile, he would of been disfellowshipped a long time ago. I think the society should sue him for misrepresenting himself and therefore causing them damage.

Thousands of people are disfelloshipped every year for misrepresenting themselves and/or Jehovah God. No sense in suing them. We don't need a "public relations strategy" either.

Also, becoming one of Jehovah's Witnesses doesn't give a predator easy access to children. The very notion is retarded.

Bob, i have to disagree with you to a point. I grew up in the truth (30 years ago) and it was not uncommon for my parents to let me work in field service with others, even going on calls or studies with them. Some of the brothers would take the young ones out to do fun things, like play sports or catch a movie. We sometimes take for granted that not all in the truth are genuine and let our guard down. Much the same way that some women will leave their purse at their seat at the hall when they would never do it anywhere else. Most of the time its safe, but maybe that 1% of the time it could be stolen. Parents need to protect their kids, even within the congregation.

[trottigy]

Jack, do you find that - ONLY in the congregation this happens or is it parents in general - ALL OVER THE PLACE!?

For example - little league, other churches with church functions (around here the LDS are HUGE into boy scouts), boy and girls scouts - many of these OVER NIGHT camping trips, schools, parks, etc.

Would you say - a predator would have "easier" access in the congregation than he would at other places - like those examples?

note: YES parents with children should be more aware - NO MATTER where, but should the elders be the ones PRIMARILY that are looking after the children or is that the parents PRIMARY responsibility?

note: I do feel that the elders should talk to parents if they see them allowing their child in the ministry with others - unsupervised by the parent! Just like we make announcements about not leaving the purses out.

[Micah]

I will just say from personal experience, it is SO easy to trust other brothers and sisters. We had a brother come and babysit my 2 brothers, myself, and my sister while my mom worked. Needless to say, I was molested and abused by this brother. He always told me that if I told anyone, he would kill my family. Fastforward about 7 years, and I just blurted it out going to the meeting. At this time, my mom has remarried to my new dad, and we lived on the opposite side of the state. My mom pulled over, looked at me and just cried uncontrollably. We didn't make it to the meeting. We went home, and she had me talk to my dad. My dad was a police officer for Denver, CO so he knew exactly how to handle this, and he did. The brother is now DF'd, out of the truth, gay, and we found out I wasn't the only victim, however I am the first victim. I am not sure how to feel about it, but right now I have such hatred for him, because to this day it still effects me.

I have a hard time trusting any bros and sis that wants to spend time with my boys. I keep thinking, just what if.... what if it does happen to my boys... what will I do? How will I react?

I have gone to a shrink about this, and they told me because of my religion, I am depressed and the best thing I could do was to quit being a JW's. I yelled at her for coming to such a notion. Advised her that not all JW's were bad. Just like the same with other religions. Not all Catholics are child molesters, etc etc etc. Flipped her desk and walked out. I was so frustrated. She was later fired.

I could go on and on about this... However, with personal experience, yes it is easy for a predator to become a JW's to have easy access to kids. Because, once someone shows initiative towards the truth, since we can't read hearts and minds, we start to trust them. Then we allow them to spend time with our kids. We are always instructed to allow our kids to branch out, meet others, become friends. We just need to be careful.

One congregation I went to outside of Columbus, OH, has a registered offender. He did his time. However, because he is registered he will never be able to hold a position as a MS, Elder, or Pioneer.

[Bro.David Drake DeLaurento]

Sexual Offenders and Predators are two very distinct classification. One has committed at least one offense and another is a repeat offender and a sociopathetic hunter. To keep tabs on them is very difficult unless you have a national database and Lo-Jack the perps. When I was a probation officer many moons ago, they're were juveniles who were classified as S.O. And the reasons were many. Some for mental issues,curiosity, and believe it or not dating. The dating one is what got me upset. I.e. a juvenile dating pair had consensual sex and the parents wanted to file charges against the juvenile male. The juvenile boy must be labeled as a sexual offender and be stigmatized for the rest of his juvenile and adult life. That I do not agree with, but it's within the parents rights and the law.

Any sexual offender must register with the local police agency or sheriff's office for the rest of his life. Also, they must change their ID address to reflect where they are living. In Florida, if they do not do that within 7 days, they are warranted and charges to be filed. Sexual perps cannot have residence 1000 feet near a school, daycare, etc. That pretty much puts him in the ocean. The problem was so big that many were forced to live underneath the bridge.

In the present case that is being handled, the Society has to have known that the person was a sexual offender prior to having that person being in the congregation. That can only be done through a criminal check. Legally, You can only be liable if a person has been convicted, arrests only do not count legally. i.e. When you get a traffic ticket, you are essentially arrested on the spot, believe it or not. When you sign the ticket, you admit to the infraction and then you have the option to take it to court or pay the fine. I'm sure we have people who have been arrested before and our serving in appointed positions in the congregation.

I consider myself seasoned and cautious of people because of my background, but there is no way to distinguish a sexual perp and a normal person especially if their functioning in society. I can't see how the society can be liable if one starts to study, progresses to the point of baptism, and additional privileges. In the meantime, he has alterior motives to create havoc and place himself in a position of confidence.

Let's be realistic. A person is hardcore if he can go through all that dismissing all along Jehovah's spirit. But, we have them and that's the reality. Are we going to second guess a brother or sister who are nice to our kids? This is a precarious situation and places everybody on paranoid status.

What do we have to do, run a criminal check on all publishers? I hate what Satan has done and really despise his pawns who drag Jehovah's name through the mud.

[Shawnster]

Also I'm wondering would if it be a better public relations strategy to sue the offender rather appeal the ruling. The society can sue this perv misrepresenting himself. We all have to go through a bible study and answer questions for baptismal. This guy told members who represent the organization that he wanted to serve Jehovah and that he was living a clean lifestyle. Obviously that was a lie and he was just trying to find easy excess to children. It' s kind of like a breech of contract, he was allowed to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses based on his lies. If anyone knew he was a pedophile, he would of been disfellowshipped a long time ago. I think the society should sue him for misrepresenting himself and therefore causing them damage.

Thousands of people are disfelloshipped every year for misrepresenting themselves and/or Jehovah God. No sense in suing them. We don't need a "public relations strategy" either.

Also, becoming one of Jehovah's Witnesses doesn't give a predator easy access to children. The very notion is retarded.

Bob, i have to disagree with you to a point. I grew up in the truth (30 years ago) and it was not uncommon for my parents to let me work in field service with others, even going on calls or studies with them. Some of the brothers would take the young ones out to do fun things, like play sports or catch a movie. We sometimes take for granted that not all in the truth are genuine and let our guard down. Much the same way that some women will leave their purse at their seat at the hall when they would never do it anywhere else. Most of the time its safe, but maybe that 1% of the time it could be stolen. Parents need to protect their kids, even within the congregation.

However, SOHCAHTOA comment was so extreme and blatantly impractical. As Bob pointed out, the Organization would have to sue EVERYONE that was ever disfellowshipped (or, maybe, even reproved). To claim that someone who commits a gross sin is misrepresenting himself is preposterous.

Do people misrepresent themselves when they get batpized? Yes, sometimes. Just think about those KGB agents that were in the congregation, baptized, elders and still were reporting to the KGB about Witness activities. They were indeed misrepresenting themselves.

However, baptism is not a legally binding document or agreement. Baptism is our covenant with Jehovah and has no legal, binding value in relation to civil law. No paperwork is signed and nothing is given to the courts or other legal agencies. Further, we're not out any money when we study with someone. It's not like a Bible Student can bilk us out of money due to his misrepresentation.

And who would do the suing? The elders? The local congregation? The Circuit? The Watchower Bible and Tract Society?

[SOHCAHTOA]

Also I'm wondering would if it be a better public relations strategy to sue the offender rather appeal the ruling. The society can sue this perv misrepresenting himself. We all have to go through a bible study and answer questions for baptismal. This guy told members who represent the organization that he wanted to serve Jehovah and that he was living a clean lifestyle. Obviously that was a lie and he was just trying to find easy excess to children. It' s kind of like a breech of contract, he was allowed to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses based on his lies. If anyone knew he was a pedophile, he would of been disfellowshipped a long time ago. I think the society should sue him for misrepresenting himself and therefore causing them damage.

Thousands of people are disfelloshipped every year for misrepresenting themselves and/or Jehovah God. No sense in suing them. We don't need a "public relations strategy" either.

Also, becoming one of Jehovah's Witnesses doesn't give a predator easy access to children. The very notion is retarded.

This is different from any typical disfellowshipping because this person actions cause the organization 20 million dollars. I think anything at this point is better than appealing and having this drag on in court. Not all publicity is good publicity.

[Shawnster]

How would suing be good PR?

Sometimes the best answer is no answer at all. Time to move on. Especially if the ruling gets overturned.

Nothing has cost $20 million yet. Appeals are ongoing.

[Greenfield]

You know, I just thought of something. Of all the times when this case could have been in the news, what better time could there have been than right now? The media is already so focused on the Sandusky case. People won't be paying as much attention to the case against the Witnesses as most attention is on the Sandusky case. Even though the ruling against the Society is sad, the timing of it couldn't have been better.

[Micah]

What happened to the posting I did earlier on the other sex abuse scandal? I never got an email, but when I tried to click it it said I didn't have permission.

[JSellenger]

Micah, I was trying to reply to you in that thread and had the same problem. I had misunderstood your comment in that thread, didn't mean come off haughty.

[rbrown1205]

Simon,

Do you know who put together the "third witness" site? I just read a great deal of it, and it is a very detailed answer to this issue.

[Brother_Bliss]

Also, becoming one of Jehovah's Witnesses doesn't give a predator easy access to children. The very notion is retarded.

Bob, i have to disagree with you to a point. I grew up in the truth (30 years ago) and it was not uncommon for my parents to let me work in field service with others, even going on calls or studies with them. Some of the brothers would take the young ones out to do fun things, like play sports or catch a movie. We sometimes take for granted that not all in the truth are genuine and let our guard down. Much the same way that some women will leave their purse at their seat at the hall when they would never do it anywhere else. Most of the time its safe, but maybe that 1% of the time it could be stolen. Parents need to protect their kids, even within the congregation.

I wholeheartedly agree that parents need to protect their kids, even in the congregation, and it is scriptural to boot.

The point I was trying to make is that a person does not have increased access to children, easier access to children, or uninhibited access to children by becoming a one of Jehovah's people, as if there were some flaw in our arrangement as the apostates who ride the false wave of child sex abuse would like to persuade others to believe. Child sex abuse is not an organizational issue, per se.

A predator would fair better in some occupation that puts them in close proximity with numerous potential victims. We would not rank very high on such a list.