Money in the New System

[LeolaRootStew]

Since this seems like a pretty big subject I decided to make it a separate post. I know there are those who think we won't have a monetary system in the New System, but I think it can be useful. Tell me why or why not.

 

The monetary system in the United States used to be gold-backed currency. I can't imagine that being the case in the New System because, honestly, who cares about gold? It's of arbitrary value.

 

If I was going to try to start a system I'm thinking it would be labor-backed. For example, every person alive would be gifted 100,000 dollars (an arbitrary number) when they are resurrected or when they come of age. If that person dies (from judgement), the same amount of money would be removed from the monetary system. This would mean that the money system is backed by labor, by a human who is productive, instead of a hunk of metal. It would create a concrete limit for the amount of currency that exists in the world and prevents inflation or deflation. Each person would be able to decide what things they value enough to spend money on.

 

That's all I'll say for now. What system makes sense to you guys and how do you think money would be beneficial in the New System? Are there things you expect to be free - like housing, education, and food - while other things might cost money - like hand-made clothing, instruments, and other crafts? Let me know.

[Dustparticle]

BTG, Governments, and Financial Institutions will go down the drain by Jehovah. I do not think Jehovah  will repair any of them in NW. There will not be different classes of people in the NW.

[Qapla]

I couldn't vote since my concept/idea is not covered by the posted questions. The first question in the survey creates the confusion and inability to vote. That question presents two diametrically opposed ideas/system by including "free" and "barter" under one category. If things are free, there would be no reason to bater - likewise, if we are going to have to bater, nothing would actually be free.

 

IF/When the poll is corrected, I will continue my thought process on this subject.

 

[Dolce vita]

I would absolutely hate the presence of money in Paradise. I hate the power money has over humans. A Jewish proverb says: 'You want to know a man? Give him some money'. The other variation is: 'Give him power'. If money is not in itself guilty, it is still the revealer of the inner person that we can be. I've seen so many bad things happen because of money... I really hate the idea of it. Sorry to be so radical on the subject. Radicalism is very rare for me. But if Jehovah plans a financial system I will have to take care of myself first.

2 minutes ago, Qapla said:

Je n'ai pas pu voter car mon concept/idée n'est pas couvert par les questions postées. La première question de l'enquête crée la confusion et l'incapacité de voter. Cette question présente deux idées/systèmes diamétralement opposés en incluant « libre » et « troc » dans une seule catégorie. Si les choses étaient gratuites, il n’y aurait aucune raison de se battre – de même, si nous devions nous battre, rien ne serait réellement gratuit.

 

SI/Quand le sondage sera corrigé, je poursuivrai ma réflexion sur ce sujet.

 

All the SAME

[LeolaRootStew]

13 minutes ago, Qapla said:

I couldn't vote since my concept/idea is not covered by the posted questions. The first question in the survey creates the confusion and inability to vote. That question presents two diametrically opposed ideas/system by including "free" and "barter" under one category. If things are free, there would be no reason to bater - likewise, if we are going to have to bater, nothing would actually be free.

 

IF/When the poll is corrected, I will continue my thought process on this subject.

 

 

I'm not sure I can edit it now, but the first option can be taken as barter OR free. the point is there would be no currency involved

Edited January 20 by LeolaRootStew

[Old]

43 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

I'm not sure I can edit it now, but the first option can be taken as barter OR free. the point is there would be no currency involved

Why? Money is only a medium to facilitate the bartering process. You have something I want, I have something you want. Easier to trade some paper than take your ten chickens for my lamb.

 

Someone needs chickens.

 "I have chickens how many do you need?"

"Thank you, four should do it."   "Come spring I will have a lot of lambs to pass around.  "

 

[LeolaRootStew]

7 minutes ago, Old said:

Why? Money is only a medium to facilitate the bartering process. You have something I want, I have something you want. Easier to trade some paper than take your ten chickens for my lamb.

 

Someone needs chickens.

 "I have chickens how many do you need?"

"Thank you, four should do it."   "Come spring I will have a lot of lambs to pass around.  "

 

 

All I know is I don't want to figure out how many blueberries I need to trade to get a violin.

[Dolce vita]

14 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

Tout ce que je sais, c'est que je ne veux pas savoir combien de myrtilles je dois échanger pour obtenir un violon.

I will give it to you, Justinah, gift🥰

[New World Explorer]

6 hours ago, Old said:

Why? Money is only a medium to facilitate the bartering process. You have something I want, I have something you want. Easier to trade some paper than take your ten chickens for my lamb.

 

Someone needs chickens.

 "I have chickens how many do you need?"

"Thank you, four should do it."   "Come spring I will have a lot of lambs to pass around.  "

 

Consider this: How did you learn to produce or grow what I want? Can I learn it and do it for myself? For example you know how to make perfect shoes, then can you run classes and educate us how to make it? In return I will teach my skills..  

I see perfect mind to be able to absorb various skills and be able to provide for myself. 
What do we really need? Shelter … we can learn how to build. 
Food? We can learn to grow it, Clothes? Easy … we can learn to make it.

The rest …like space exploration and scientific projects fall into different category. 
 

BTW, with clothes it’s easy as we are going to retain the same body shape and size. If we use good quality fabrics we can produce clothes in one month that will last hundreds of years. I plant to learn skills to become excellent builder, cloth-maker, and farmer. 

Edited January 21 by New World Explorer

[Dages]

Very happy to see no vote for 3.

 

Also, there is no need for barter. It could be used but that would not be mandatory. Just give freely, who cares if you can't give anything back?

Luke 14:14 right?

Edited January 21 by Dages

[lesage NM]

This is not at all important. There will be no currency, no money in the new system. No need to have money. Not at all... subject to cancel and forget

[lesage NM]

Ezechiel 7:19

[LeolaRootStew]

6 hours ago, Dages said:

Very happy to see no vote for 3.

 

Also, there is no need for barter. It could be used but that would not be mandatory. Just give freely, who cares if you can't give anything back?

Luke 14:14 right?

 

"need"? it's natural that if someone expresses an interest in something you have that they want to offer you something as well. barter is not a dirty word.

[Katty]

I'd imagine money  was invented because barter systems are built upon a great deal of trust, and not a lot of people in Satan's world would have been very trustworthy. I think it's possible to have a barter system based on people simply promising each other something. I get oranges from your orange orchard, and, in return, I promise you some figs when they're ripe, for you to collect whenever you'd like them. With people all serving, Jehovah, and, eventually, perfect people, I doubt anyone would have any trouble remembering the things they promised to distribute to others. 

[Dages]

2 hours ago, LeolaRootStew said:

"need"? it's natural that if someone expresses an interest in something you have that they want to offer you something as well. barter is not a dirty word.

I understand about requesting, but it's first from the giver perspective.

If you have some stuff, in Paradise, I imagine that you would first propose to give it away, without asking for anything in return. A giver would not impose bartering. 😉 

On the other hand, yes, being proposed something this way, I guess we would want to offer back something too  

Edited January 21 by Dages

[Michał]

I can’t think of any scenario in the NS that would require money or barter.

Change my mind


(Tapatalk)

[LeolaRootStew]

2 hours ago, Katty said:

I'd imagine money  was invented because barter systems are built upon a great deal of trust, and not a lot of people in Satan's world would have been very trustworthy. I think it's possible to have a barter system based on people simply promising each other something. I get oranges from your orange orchard, and, in return, I promise you some figs when they're ripe, for you to collect whenever you'd like them. With people all serving, Jehovah, and, eventually, perfect people, I doubt anyone would have any trouble remembering the things they promised to distribute to others. 

 

But if i don't want your produce, i'd rather get money so i can save up for something i actually want. Money is useful.

[LeolaRootStew]

1 hour ago, Michał said:

I can’t think of any scenario in the NS that would require money or barter.

Change my mind


(Tapatalk)

 

In the Little House on the Prairie series (based on real life), the Father decided to move his family farther West. He traded the house he built for a wagon and horses etc, so he could start his journey and a new family didn't have to start from scratch. That's barter; both parties benefitted.

 

I think a lot of Witnesses have this idea that barter and money are about greed, selfishness, or any number of negative things. It's not. Barter helps you to trade things you don't need anymore for things you do. Money helps when you run out of useful things to trade.

Edited January 21 by LeolaRootStew

[New World Explorer]

In a New World I see highly (eventually)advanced and well organised Society working together to accomplish goals and satisfy the needs of absolutely everyone. It’s so easy to produce goods even on big scale when greed and money are eliminated. Imagine year 3450 with underground manufacturing plants, ( no need to build on the ground)  where highly developed AI robots keep producing what we need, well some car manufacturers today use the system already. All we need to do is “supervise” the process. And that can be done by shifts that we will happily accept. ( with so many people living, your shift could come up once every 3 months etc) I see future where efficiency and technology plus our ability to make decisions and processes so much better than now. So any comparison to systems that we have now is not viable. (Money system is very inefficient system) 

Of course right after Armageddon we are going to face bit challenging situations, but not for a very long time. 
So even if I am wrong, I still see future Society as smarter, efficient and loving where everyone will have abundance of everything they need to live happily forever. I see Society that will move on beyond where main focus will be working hard to satisfy their needs, those needs will come easily and with lesser demands. I see Society where everyone will have plenty of time to explore, develop their talents and hobbies… I see… (better stop now LOL 😂) 

[LeolaRootStew]

27 minutes ago, New World Explorer said:

In a New World I see highly (eventually)advanced and well organised Society working together to accomplish goals and satisfy the needs of absolutely everyone. It’s so easy to produce goods even on big scale when greed and money are eliminated. Imagine year 3450 with underground manufacturing plants, ( no need to build on the ground)  where highly developed AI robots keep producing what we need, well some car manufacturers today use the system already. All we need to do is “supervise” the process. And that can be done by shifts that we will happily accept. ( with so many people living, your shift could come up once every 3 months etc) I see future where efficiency and technology plus our ability to make decisions and processes so much better than now. So any comparison to systems that we have now is not viable. (Money system is very inefficient system) 

Of course right after Armageddon we are going to face bit challenging situations, but not for a very long time. 
So even if I am wrong, I still see future Society as smarter, efficient and loving where everyone will have abundance of everything they need to live happily forever. I see Society that will move on beyond where main focus will be working hard to satisfy their needs, those needs will come easily and with lesser demands. I see Society where everyone will have plenty of time to explore, develop their talents and hobbies… I see… (better stop now LOL 😂) 

 

I agree with your idea of factory-made goods and people having work shifts. When i speak of money in the NS, I'm not saying it would be in every aspect of your life. I expect that for the majority of "work" you do you will not be paid for it, and I'm ok with that.

 

What I'm looking for is that in 10,000 years I will be a master violinist and want a high quality violin because I have devoted enough time and energy to justify it. There are very few high-quality Luthiers on earth today and their violins are rightly very expensive. What would those people do in the New System with their high-quality product if everyone has the mentality that they should just give things away all the time - that to ask for compensation in any way for a craft that takes decades of intense focus to hone would be somehow selfish?

 

When it takes so much time, skill, and materials to accomplish something, it makes sense that it should be compensated for in some way, at the very least so they don't run out of materials to work with. So how could I, with no money and nothing to trade, ever convince them that I should receive one of their rare violins instead of someone else? I don't know, but I know it would be easier if we had some sort of standard trade system already in place that did not involve me trying to entice them with blueberries or a future promise of figs. 🤷‍♀️

Edited January 21 by LeolaRootStew

[Leonard Match Valid]

Matthew 10: 8
...You have received freely, so give freely.

 

 

I think the principle in this verse goes beyond the first century and these last days.

We receive the earth, resources, gifts and other things freely or out of Jehovah's undeserved kindness. He has given. It was a gift.

 

So, I think, the gift should be shared.

 

We didn't get money from Jehovah, that was a human invention.

 

Some human inventions have been shared with humanity without money, such as knowledge, oral instructions, life experience, friends and social things.

Other human inventions must have a large sum of money to have, something that brings a directed effort to get money.

 

So:
money = effort to get something
without effort, without money = not having something

 

If there is to be happiness in essence, complete happiness, if there is money there must be a reduced effort to have it, otherwise we will be slaves to it.

 

It doesn't make sense to have a thousand refinements of the Kingdom in our lives only to then be slaves to two masters.

 

Perhaps if we have the mentality that there will be money in the new world, it could be that the devil will exploit it at the end of the thousand years and that Jehovah will no longer introduce money after the thousand years.

 

Who knows?

 

[New World Explorer]

I also think that when we discuss subject like this, we need to keep in mind fluidity of it. As what we are going to have in year 2079 will not necessarily reflect how things will be in 5079 .. or 12079 and so on and on…throughout eternity. 

[Qapla]

4 hours ago, LeolaRootStew said:

What I'm looking for is that in 10,000 years I will be a master violinist and want a high quality violin because I have devoted enough time and energy to justify it. There are very few high-quality Luthiers on earth today and their violins are rightly very expensive. What would those people do in the New System with their high-quality product if everyone has the mentality that they should just give things away all the time - that to ask for compensation in any way for a craft that takes decades of intense focus to hone would be somehow selfish?

 

And this is the basis of what I was saying above. Why would a well-made anything (violin in this case) be "vey expensive"?

 

I'll illustrate:

I have done may things to earn a living in this system. Some were hard, physical work (think installing carpet) and some were fairly simple (think making pizza). However, I enjoy woodworking - mind you I don't make violins, but I do turn bowls. I would love to have a variety of exotic species of wood so I could expand on the things I turn. While, in this system, I would need to charge large prices to spend the time and effort to prepare and turn a large bowl, that is beside the point. I am not turning bowls because it is good pay. I am turning them because I enjoy it. I turn stuff that I don't get paid for simply because I can.

 

My concept if how it would work in the NS is, if you want a violin, you make that known and a person who makes them will make you one. Maybe you request it from a certain person, maybe not. Either way, when the violin is finished - it's yours. In the meantime, the luthier's food and other necessities are being provided by others who have a surplus and freely offer it or leave it in a community area for anyone who needs it.

 

The idea that we need equal compensation will be a thing of the past. We do whatever it is we do simply because it is our assignment and/or it is what we want to do. We will use what we need and want but, since there is no greed, we will not want or take excess. All will do this regardless of what we currently see as cheap or expensive. It won't matter if what we do or make is simple and only takes a short time or if it is long, laborious and takes exceptional talent and time ... we will be happy to do whatever it is we are doing and share with whoever comes along ... no need for compensation at all.

 

The way I see it, if I am turning wood bowls and I make some that take me a month each to make due to the complexity of the glue-up, what am I going to do with all those bowls after a few years? If you come along and want one, it's yours! No need to barter, because I will make another one. I am not turning bowls to sell them, I am turning them because I can! Because I enjoy it!

 

Since all my needs are taken care of, I have food to eat, a home to live in, a shop to work in and all the tools I need - why would I need compensation from you? Your smile and appreciation would be enough. And, since all tasks would be done the same way ... there would be no need for money or barter.

 

[LeolaRootStew]

2 hours ago, Qapla said:

 

And this is the basis of what I was saying above. Why would a well-made anything (violin in this case) be "vey expensive"?

 

I'll illustrate:

I have done may things to earn a living in this system. Some were hard, physical work (think installing carpet) and some were fairly simple (think making pizza). However, I enjoy woodworking - mind you I don't make violins, but I do turn bowls. I would love to have a variety of exotic species of wood so I could expand on the things I turn. While, in this system, I would need to charge large prices to spend the time and effort to prepare and turn a large bowl, that is beside the point. I am not turning bowls because it is good pay. I am turning them because I enjoy it. I turn stuff that I don't get paid for simply because I can.

 

My concept if how it would work in the NS is, if you want a violin, you make that known and a person who makes them will make you one. Maybe you request it from a certain person, maybe not. Either way, when the violin is finished - it's yours. In the meantime, the luthier's food and other necessities are being provided by others who have a surplus and freely offer it or leave it in a community area for anyone who needs it.

 

The idea that we need equal compensation will be a thing of the past. We do whatever it is we do simply because it is our assignment and/or it is what we want to do. We will use what we need and want but, since there is no greed, we will not want or take excess. All will do this regardless of what we currently see as cheap or expensive. It won't matter if what we do or make is simple and only takes a short time or if it is long, laborious and takes exceptional talent and time ... we will be happy to do whatever it is we are doing and share with whoever comes along ... no need for compensation at all.

 

The way I see it, if I am turning wood bowls and I make some that take me a month each to make due to the complexity of the glue-up, what am I going to do with all those bowls after a few years? If you come along and want one, it's yours! No need to barter, because I will make another one. I am not turning bowls to sell them, I am turning them because I can! Because I enjoy it!

 

Since all my needs are taken care of, I have food to eat, a home to live in, a shop to work in and all the tools I need - why would I need compensation from you? Your smile and appreciation would be enough. And, since all tasks would be done the same way ... there would be no need for money or barter.

 

 

I still think money is a useful extension of the barter system, but I can see what you're saying.

[Dark King]

I think the only currency Will Be Loved. We all would be just like the Good Samaritan.

 

Also, think about who would decide the value of the currency and who will decide the value of my labor.

Edited January 22 by Dark King