GB 2025 Update #4

[Ivar]

On 7/13/2025 at 2:41 AM, LeolaRootStew said:

The "beliefs clarified" page doesn't include these kinds of updates (like beards or slacks); is there anywhere we can look for a full list of these smaller updates?

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200277174

On the website itself there is no such list.


6 Januari 2023 - hour requirement

2023 Governing Body Update #1

7 October 2023 - ministry reporting
Breaking News

15 December 2023 - beards
2023 Governing Body Update #8

15 March 2024 - disfellowshipped persons; ties and pants

2024 Governing Body Update #2

4 June 2024 - toasting

2025 Governing Body Update #4

[Tortuga]

1 hour ago, Ivar said:

Maybe because it is a very practical issue that influences daily life.

People toast every day?

[ijsvogel]

39 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

People toast every day?

I would love to toast every day. Preferably with melting cheese or an awful lot of strawberry jam 🤭

[Tortuga]

3 minutes ago, ijsvogel said:

I would love to toast every day. Preferably with melting cheese or an awful lot of strawberry jam 🤭

I like a nice sourdough with peanut butter and my wife's home made apple butter...

[Dark King]

2 hours ago, Shawnster said:

Question(s) to those who are speculating whether the principles in this or a future update apply to birthdays and holidays such as Thanksgiving. 

 

Why? 

 

Why do you suppose or speculate we will have an adjustment on these holidays? 

 

Could you please explain and do do simply, as if talking to a 5 year old? 

I kinda wonder if a lot of the friends didn't have a good Bible teacher to go over these subjects. And reach their heart 💜.And for that reason the friends haven't made their peace 🕊️ with the subjects. It's best to pray 🙏🏾 to Jehovah and ask him from your heart 💜 want do he wants.

 

The word holiday means Holy Day or a Sacred day. The only sacred day Jehovah has given us Christian is the memorial of Jesus Christ Death. Other than that Paul told Christian to stop doing any another Sacred day or time period.

 

I believe Jehovah will give us more Sacred Day's and time periods in the New system of things. Probably I'm guessing Armageddon will be a annual event celebrated during the 1000 years.

 

Apostle Paul addresses the issue of observing certain days, months, seasons, and years in the book of Galatians. In Galatians 4:10-11, Paul expresses concern that some believers are "observing special days and months and seasons and years!" and worries that his work among them may have been in vain. 

 

(Galatians 4:10) 10 You are scrupulously observing days and months and seasons and years.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&pub=nwtsty&srctype=wol&bible=48004010&srcid=share

 

(Galatians 4:11) 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&pub=nwtsty&srctype=wol&bible=48004011&srcid=share

 

 

Hopefully this helps to the conversation.

 

[Tortuga]

2 hours ago, Shawnster said:

Why do you suppose or speculate we will have an adjustment on these holidays? 

Sometimes it takes time to wrap our heads around a new way of thinking as we mature. 

[LeolaRootStew]

I think debating the principles of this adjustment is good, and asking if it also applies to holidays is a good question, but...some comments seem to be phrasing things as if the GB has given us explicit permission to decide which holidays/celebrations we are allowed to participate in and that's where I think it goes too far. Perhaps they will address it in the future, but as of this moment we have not gotten any new direction on holidays or birthdays.

[ijsvogel]

12 minutes ago, Dark King said:

The word holiday means Holy Day or a Sacred day. The only sacred day Jehovah has given us Christian is the memorial of Jesus Christ Death. Other than that Paul told Christian to stop doing any another Sacred day or time period.

 

 

Your reasoning makes sense in English (thank you for that; I like your reasoning about the memorial of Jesus Christ’s death). But it made me smile for Dutch. I wouldn’t use this in Dutch to explain it to a Bible student. The word holiday translates as ‘feestdag’, which means literally ‘Party Day’. I can already hear them saying ‘what’s wrong with a party?’ 🙈

[blanchard]

Tomorrow wille be another day and if the time is came we wille see others ajustments in 2025. I believe it's a good year ...

[Ivar]

4 hours ago, Tortuga said:

People toast every day?

Perhaps haha. I think every day there is the possibility that we have to deal with certain customs and symbols that used to be seen as "candy from the gutter".

[Sete]

19 hours ago, LeslieDean said:

I remember my PO years ago in the Beverly Hills Congregation had a bottle of expensive wine he said he and his wife splurged on while visiting in Italy for their anniversary. This bottle set up high on a glass shelf with their wedding picture on the side. It was the first time I had ever seen a bottle of alcohol on display with what appeared to be a beautiful jeweled necklace..I asked about it and was told it was their GT bottle! He said it keeps their conversation lively with hopes of the GT and when will they open it to celebrate this long awaited event! I loved the way that scene played out it my mind. When Rick passed i.sat his urn on the mantle and have a favorite picture of us on one side, a love he wrote me years ago I found folded in a book sets under his urn..I ordered wine bottle jewelry which is a really elaborate rhinestone 'necklace' that drapes around a beautiful bottle of whiskey. I thought it for the appearance of the bottle. Now I too, set in my recliner staring at this commemorative shelf and wonder when I took can open the bottle and pour a celebratory drink. It brings me peace and comfort to think back on my years in the truth and so grateful I am still here. 

This is so lovely to read. Wish you the best my dear sister Leslie. Soon you'll open that bottle! 

[LeslieDean]

53 minutes ago, Sete said:

This is so lovely to read. Wish you the best my dear sister Leslie. Soon you'll open that bottle! 

Thanks for the kind words.

Al and Lydia P. She was an actress in Hawaii when the series Hawaii 5-0 was in its hay day. She obtained her SAG card and moved to LA after production quit in hopes to further her career. But Jehovah had other plans for our beautiful sister! She said they splurged on that bottle of wine because they wanted the good stuff and also did not want it to turn vinegary in case in was a long wait! Lol 

[ChrisC]

On 7/7/2025 at 2:12 PM, Ostria said:

 

 

I've learned a lot of people do bachelor/ette parties and trips are their last time to be 'free' and have no committal obligations. That's why a lot of them have a bunch of strippers. The modern view of marriage is seen as more of a ball and chain, you're shackled, you cant have any fun anymore, etc etc etc. Some of the younger ones see it as a form of 'ownership'. It's really WILD how the kids see marriage now when you go into social media.

 

Side note, I always wondered about marriage rings and if they had pagan origins, and my guess was right that they do, but it's no longer seen as that anymore (Like i always wondered why it had to be a SPECIFIC ringer on a certain hand. I heard it's because it has the vein/artery/whatever that leads to the heart)

 

As far as Brother Lett, i personally thought he looked adorable with his snazzy new glasses. I thought it kinda made him look a bit younger but from the beginning of the thread seems that I need a new pair of glasses

 

Am I remembering correctly that Polish sisters wear wedding rings on the right hand?

 

On 7/12/2025 at 10:36 PM, Tortuga said:

When we get Updates like this, it is like a Local Needs talk for the entire organization. Generally there is a specific reason for a Local Needs talk, so I wonder why the GB felt this information about toasting was important enough to make an Update about it now. I wonder why it wasn't put in a WT study article instead.

 

Unity.

 

”No brother. You can’t do that at your wedding because that will be before we actually study the article at the Kingdom Hall.”

(I’m exaggerating.)

 

[Tortuga]

Its interesting that the GB Update about toasting will be shown during the same MWM that discusses the use of alcohol. 

[Ostria]

5 hours ago, Tortuga said:

Its interesting that the GB Update about toasting will be shown during the same MWM that discusses the use of alcohol. 

Mwm?

[Tortuga]

11 minutes ago, Ostria said:

Mwm?

Mid Week Meeting. 

[daydream]

On 7/14/2025 at 10:25 PM, Tortuga said:

apple butter

https://www.thepioneerwoman.com/food-cooking/recipes/a95440/how-to-make-apple-butter/

 

How is apple butter made?

It starts with chopped tart, crisp Granny Smith apples that get cooked down with apple cider vinegar, salt, and water. Once they're nice and soft, the mixture is put through a food mill to break down the apples into a smoother texture. 

 

...Once the apples have been blended, the mash goes back into the pot with brown sugar, apple pie spice, and vanilla. This is where the magic happens! Once it cooks down and thickens, it's ready.

 

Why is apple butter called butter?

[asm144]

On 7/6/2025 at 9:11 AM, Sofia said:

What’s wrong on your birthday anniversary to invite friends over to have a meal ? Eating a nice cake why not?

as long as no pagan rituals are involved 

no gifts

no singing birthday wishes

no candles to blow

no name on the cake

no make wish 

 

my aunt always made a special creamy cake for her no-believer husband year anniversary and employers children

she never thought it was wrong

frankly… me neither 

I’m sorry … I don’t want to hurt anyone s feelings 

we eat cake and have friends when we can

why avoid that day? Makes no sense 

we should respect non believers feelings 

it may not be important to us 

but it matters a lot to them 

 

 

There is a lot of information about the origin of birthday cakes here https://www.angesdesucre.com/blogs/anges-de-sucre/the-ultimate-guide-to-birthday-cakes-history-traditions-trends-and-cultural-impactthe-surprising-history-of-birthday-cakes

 

I didn't know that there was a pagan ritual involved in the cake itself! 

 

The cake was round like a moon as part of the worship of the moon goddess Artemis. Not just the candles glowing like a moon, but also the shape of the cake itself.

 

Sweet cakes in general were used in worshipping pagan gods.

 

The ingredients of cakes used to be very expensive, so only the wealthy could afford to have a cake party.

 

(Luke 14:12-14) . . .Next he said also to the man who had invited him: “When you spread a dinner or an evening meal, do not call your friends or your brothers or your relatives or your rich neighbors. Otherwise, they might also invite you in return, and it would become a repayment to you. But when you spread a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind;  and you will be happy, because they have nothing with which to repay you. For you will be repaid in the resurrection of the righteous ones.”
 

There are plenty of homeless and hungry people around. 

 

Wasn't there a princess or Queen who said "Let them eat cake" when the poor people were starving?  It was a very expensive item that only the rich enjoyed.  

[Dages]

5 hours ago, asm144 said:

 

Wasn't there a princess or Queen who said "Let them eat cake" when the poor people were starving?  It was a very expensive item that only the rich enjoyed.  

Marie-Antoinette  

[Ivar]

15 hours ago, asm144 said:

Wasn't there a princess or Queen who said "Let them eat cake" when the poor people were starving?  It was a very expensive item that only the rich enjoyed.  

 

10 hours ago, Dages said:

Marie-Antoinette  

Some background information:

"Although the phrase is conventionally attributed to Marie Antoinette, there is no evidence that she ever uttered it, and it is now generally regarded as a journalistic cliché. The phrase can actually be traced back to Jean-Jacques Rousseau's Confessions in 1765, 24 years prior to the French Revolution, and when Antoinette was nine years old and had never been to France. The phrase was not attributed to Antoinette until decades after her death."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake

But that doesn't change the fact that cake was indeed only enjoyed by the rich!

[Ivar]

On 7/14/2025 at 1:51 PM, Shawnster said:

Question(s) to those who are speculating whether the principles in this or a future update apply to birthdays and holidays such as Thanksgiving. 

 

Why? 

 

Why do you suppose or speculate we will have an adjustment on these holidays? 

 

Could you please explain and do do simply, as if talking to a 5 year old? 

No one you asked this question to has replied yet. (About why they are speculating.) So I explained the situation to chatGPT and it wrote this explanation as to a 5 year old:

 

"So remember those three big questions? Let’s try to answer them about birthdays.

Would it make God sad?
Some people used to say yes — because the Bible tells two birthday stories, and bad things happened in both. But here’s the thing: the Bible doesn’t say that birthdays themselves are bad. It just tells stories that happened on birthdays. And there’s no rule in the Bible that says, “You must not celebrate a birthday.” So maybe God isn’t automatically sad when someone has a small cake and thanks him for another year of life.
 

Would it hurt someone in the group?
Well, maybe if you made it a big show or tried to pressure everyone to join in. But if it’s a quiet family thing — just spending time together and maybe saying a prayer — most people wouldn’t be upset or confused. And the new principles say that mature people should respect each other’s conscience, even if they don’t do the same thing.
 

What do people in your town think about it?
Most people don’t think birthdays are religious at all — just a time to say, “I’m glad you were born!” So it’s not like wearing a symbol from another religion or joining a pagan festival. In most places today, birthdays are just about family, friends, and being thankful. So maybe they aren’t “unclean” or dangerous like some symbols from false religion."


Does this anwer your question, Shawnster? Maybe the brothers and sisters who speculated about birthdays can say whether this reflects the thoughts behind their comments.

[blanchard]

3 hours ago, Ivar said:

Would it make God sad?
Some people used to say yes — because the Bible tells two birthday stories, and bad things happened in both. But here’s the thing: the Bible doesn’t say that birthdays themselves are bad. It just tells stories that happened on birthdays. And there’s no rule in the Bible that says, “You must not celebrate a birthday.” So maybe God isn’t automatically sad when someone has a small cake and thanks him for another year of life.
 

Would it hurt someone in the group?
Well, maybe if you made it a big show or tried to pressure everyone to join in. But if it’s a quiet family thing — just spending time together and maybe saying a prayer — most people wouldn’t be upset or confused. And the new principles say that mature people should respect each other’s conscience, even if they don’t do the same thing.
 

What do people in your town think about it?
Most people don’t think birthdays are religious at all — just a time to say, “I’m glad you were born!” So it’s not like wearing a symbol from another religion or joining a pagan festival. In most places today, birthdays are just about family, friends, and being thankful. So maybe they aren’t “unclean” or dangerous like some symbols from false religion."

Interisting. For me me it's not a problem of faith. MY OPINION (and just an opinion) it's in a few months there will be news on all these traditions which are no longer considered religious and will be left to our christian conscience

[Derrick_m]

2 hours ago, blanchard said:

Interisting. For me me it's not a problem of faith. MY OPINION (and just an opinion) it's in a few months there will be news on all these traditions which are no longer considered religious and will be left to our christian conscience

Even a GB member can have an opinion like all of us. But until they all go into the closed room and discuss it, (if they even do) and let Jehovah's spirit work, we won't really know. 

[Sofia]

8 hours ago, Ivar said:

maybe God isn’t automatically sad when someone has a small cake and thanks him for another year of life.

 

8 hours ago, Ivar said:

Most people don’t think birthdays are religious at all

 

8 hours ago, Ivar said:

maybe they aren’t “unclean” or dangerous like some symbols from false religion."

As long as we don’t use pagan rituals 

I see logical points here.

And no. We are not trending apostasy 

Just being realistic 

 

[johnnyjw01]

then why the first Christians didn’t celebrate them?