Gun Culture In America

[Lilac Isosceles]

In August 1940 there was a widely publicised shooting of a sheriff's deputy in Maine by one of Jehovah's Witnesses. The incident began when 2 Witnesses, Arthur Cox and Kenneth Carr, proselytised at Dean Pray's garage in North Windham, Maine(a small town located about 50 miles northeast of Rochester). Angered by the proselytisers' message, Pray - a World War 1 veteran, American Legion member and deputy sheriff - brandished a tyre iron at the Witnesses and chased them from the building. "Dean was still holding the tyre iron when Cox pulled a gun, apparently from the right hip pocket, and began to shoot, shooting four or five times at Dean," said Perley Varney, who watched the incident. "Dean turned and staggered toward the garage door facing me and fell." Hit by two shots from Cox's gun, Pray bled to death, and his wife having witnessed the shooting, had to be hospitalised for shock. On the 1st of October a jury deliberated for less than 4 hours and found Cox guilty of murdering Pray.

 

I came across the above experience while reading a book about the persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses during the second world war and how we pursued court cases that solidified freedom of speech and of religion and paved the way for the civil rights era. 

 

In Australia we hear a lot about the gun culture in America. Is this something that can still be a problem for Witnesses in America? I know it is nearly 60 years since that  terrible incident occurred but does gun culture still effect our brothers?

 

I couldn't imagine our brothers nowadays "packing heat" while on the ministry.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Purple Triangle

[trottigy]

In America we too get the Watchtower.

 

In 1973, employment that required a gun was described as a conscience matter

w73 Feb 15 QfromR

The Christian must make his own decision based on God’s Word and his knowledge of existing circumstances.

 

Then in 1983 the slave's view changed:

w83 July 15 page 25

¹⁶It is similar if one of Jehovah’s Witnesses insists on carrying or having firearms for protection against humans, or on learning the martial arts. The spiritual elders should take immediate steps to counsel and help him to remedy the situation. (Micah 4:3) Anyone who thus continues to carry personal arms or otherwise equips himself to become “a smiter” would cease to qualify for special privileges in the congregation.—1 Timothy 3:2, 3.

¹⁹As the world becomes increasingly violent we can no longer regard as exemplary a brother who continues in armed employment. He could be allowed six months to make a change. If he does not make a change, he would not be in a position to hold special privileges of service and responsibility in the congregation.—1 Timothy 3:2; Titus 1:5, 6.

 

When it comes to gun ownership for protection - we as Jehovah's people have no other "culture" than this. We do our VERY best not to let the worlds "culture" - regardless of country - unduly influence us.

Edited May 17, 2013 by trottigy

[Joey]

Interesting comment about learning martial arts in the reference also.

[stuagu]

i find the gun culture thing hard to understand, probably being on this side of the pond where its pretty rare in the uk and completely alien even to most worldly people. there was a thread about guns a while back and the opinion was owning a gun (rather than carrying a gun) was a conscience matter... and that nobody else is to judge. i am not sure i am remembering this right? 

personally (my own conscience) i wouldnt feel comfortable, me and or my family, being in any building where there was a firearm... if i knew,  id leave. id feel uncomfortable with a brother that owned a gun.  how do you brothers over there feel? are firearms so commonplace that it doesnt bother you? is my attitude hard to understand? is my attitude wrong? am i then judging my brother? thoughts?

[blue-jay]

Some brothers here like to go hunting. So there's that.

I know quite a few who have guns and rifles and like to go to the range. Shooting 'practice' just for fun. It can be fun. I've done it too.

In those cases the guns are like a hobby equipment I guess.

There's a difference to having a gun in your night stand drawer or purse, or to storing it locked away in the garage.

[stuagu]

yes i understand sister jasmin ... and how its sort of different if its locked away.  its just the thought of such a destructive object being around ... the thought of it gives me the heebeegeebees! someone gets a key they can get the gun... if they get the gun, they can hurt someone with the gun. if the gun isnt there... they cant get the gun. thats where the totally different culture makes the difference i suppose. 

im never going to understand it, or want a gun, ill just stop trying to understand it and go and have some "tea and crumpet jeeves!"

 

christian love from us strange cousins here in the uk

[TripleGGG1959]

I know some of the friends who own guns, I however never will. I will not subject my conscience on someone else. 

[jayrtom]

Some brothers here like to go hunting. So there's that.

I know quite a few who have guns and rifles and like to go to the range. Shooting 'practice' just for fun. It can be fun. I've done it too.

In those cases the guns are like a hobby equipment I guess.

There's a difference to having a gun in your night stand drawer or purse, or to storing it locked away in the garage.

I find this information absolutely strange... One can think of martial arts just for fun also, but the 83 wt says one shouldn't learn it. Martial arts are a weapon and not learning it is not possessing that weapon. Should be the same for any kind of weapon, not possessing it at all, for possessing is the first step for using it if something flashes in our head

But I may be seeing it all wrong

Confused

[GrumpysWife]

I was raised in the truth and have always been told that Martial Arts were a part of a religion. I never really looked up any information on it but today I did and I found this:

 

*** w83 7/15 pp. 24-25 par. 13 “Seek Peace and Pursue It” ***

13 However, for private self-defense, might not the Christian take training in the martial arts, such as the Chinese Kung fu? Let it be noted that this most lethal of the Oriental arts was developed more than 1,400 years ago by Zen Buddhist monks of the Shaolin Monastery on the slopes of Songshan, one of China’s sacred mountains. From this religious source came also the martial arts of Japan—Bushido, meaning, literally, “The Way of the Warrior.” Many experts in the arts of judo, kendo and karate still draw inspiration from religious meditation. Karate has as its objective incapacitating the victim, which could result in serious injury or death. Surely, those who trust in Jehovah would not turn to the martial arts for defense!—Proverbs 3:31.

 

The idea is also in my mind about Yoga for exercise. I know a lot of young women who see nothing wrong with it for loosing wieght, but I have always thought that it was also a form of religion.

 

As far as having guns in the house, I personally don't like them, but Grumpy has guns for hunting and a couple of times he used them to kill rattlesnakes that were in our yard and would have been a danger to me if I had walked out there while they were there. I would rather not have them in our home, but it is not my choice or decision so I try to keep the peace on that subject. 

 

And Joao, I feel just the way you do about the danger of having a gun, and somehow ending up using it to protect yourself instead of relying on Jehovah to be our protection.

Edited May 18, 2013 by GrumpysWife
Forgot something.

[Lilac Isosceles]

In America we too get the Watchtower.

 

When it comes to gun ownership for protection - we as Jehovah's people have no other "culture" than this. We do our VERY best not to let the worlds "culture" - regardless of country - unduly influence us.

 

I am glad that you get the Watchtower in America. I was beginning to wonder.

 

I know in Australia that the friends despite all best intentions are affected by the culture in our country. Some would say that Australians aren't cultured at all.   but we do have a culture as does any country. I guess it is like the poisonous air that surrounds us and we are all trying so hard to avoid breathing it in.

 

I'm pleased that it isn't like the Wild West anymore.   When someone attacks us with a tyre iron we turn the other cheek. 

[trottigy]

When i see someone coming at me with a tire iron - i tend to run rather than turn a cheek

Sorry for being grumpy

[surfergirl]

Ashley in line with your point on the cultural thing.

Did you watch ACA...

They had on about the Alwhites forgive my spelling. They

Are a spin of the Ji-hads. Based in

Lakemba Sydney area & Melbourne.

They showed 2 peoples faces who were involved with the Sydney protests over the

Ant-mus.video on You Tube. &

Other rites that have taken place.

The Cronulla rites etc.

That is a little more concerning.

The cultural differences are so strong.

Including my area. Especially round South Sydney & out West. One of the top news Items is the shootings around Greenacre & Bankstown. There is often an issue over who is in the right race.

[Lilac Isosceles]

No I did not see that story. Sydney is a much more multicultural cosmopolitan than here in the north of Brisbane we are sheltered from racial tensions. Recently on the southside we had some problems with Aboriginals and Pacific Islanders waging turf wars. On the Gold Coast we often hear of shootings related to bikie gangs. It really is a sick system that is beyond repair. "Please come Lord Jesus. Come quickly!" 

[ReadYourBible]

Interesting comment about learning martial arts in the reference also.

I thought so too.  I had been studying kung fu for some time.  I never really considered it an act of violence, because I wasn't being violent with anyone.  I really enjoyed the work out, the flexibility and so forth.  I also viewed it as a conscience matter, so I kept going because it didn't specifically say in the bible -- you must not learn kung fu.  

 

So.... yeah, then it kept niggling in the back of my mind and so I gave it up.  

[GrumpysWife]

When i see someone coming at me with a tire iron - i tend to run rather than turn a cheek

Sorry for being grumpy

Jerry, that's turning 2 cheeks.      

[carribbeangrl01]

Jerry, that's turning 2 cheeks.      

Love it lol