Should the veil be Banned? UK

[halfspanishlee]

Unveiled
As judge orders woman to uncover face, The Sun demands vital reforms:

1) BAN veils in school, courts and hospitals
2) BAN them in airports, banks and secure areas
3) LET employer decide if ok in the workplace
4) BUT freedom to wear them in the street

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/sun_says/5142016/The-Sun-Says-Religious-belief-cannot-trump-the-law-of-the-land-with-regard-to-veils.html

Edited September 17, 2013 by trottigy

[halfspanishlee]

That was in today's uk newspaper the sun

[trottigy]

That was in today's uk newspaper the sun

 

I am not sure that "The Sun" is a "newspaper" - more like tabloid magazine. It would be interesting to find the article in another source.

 

This article says that a judge ordered a woman with a full head scarf to remove it in order to testify during a trial. This totally makes sense. How does one know who the person is in a full head scarf. If you were a juror how would you respond to testimony given by someone who wanted to remain anonymous?  

 

I did not see where the judge order any of these other things. It seems "The Sun" is the one asking for that.

[Jewelz]

http://rt.com/news/ban-muslim-veils-debate-913/

[Mei]

Headscarves (fullface masks and other similar types) have been a major issue/controversy for many countries around the world.  Europe (France, Belgium and some places in Spain and elsewhere) have banned the wearing of headscarves in public.  Just as recently as last year (or so) Russia (Mr. Putin) spoke out explosively looking to ban head scarfs in the schools.  That controversy is now coming to America - from reports of a Tennessee ROTC girl pleading and wanting to wear a head scarf with her ROTC uniform . . . to other stories that follow. 

On a slightly different note, I recall a story of a Florida woman who filed a complaint and after numerous arguments/appeals (including interventions by the ACLU), the Ninth Circuit Court upheld the ban on head scarfs on driver's licenses.     

Edited September 17, 2013 by Mei

[trottigy]

http://rt.com/news/ban-muslim-veils-debate-913/

Thank you for the link. I see from that, there is no ban. Some want it banned, but in the UK there isn't one.

[trottigy]

Yes, if you get a picture ID, it has to show you - not some random person with their head fully covered. That seems pretty obvious to every "normal" person.

[surfergirl]

This topic made our headlines a few years back.

Burqa ban is 'un-Australian' say Muslims News.com.au.htm (This  is a report from 2010) But is still  a concern down Under,

He wants to see it banned, but also because it prevents women from interacting in normal day-to-day life. "The burqa isolates some Australians from others," he wrote.

"It is un-Australian - and it's symbolic barrier is far greater than the measure of cloth it is created from. For safety and for society, the burqa needs to be banned."

However Assisting Shift in Multicultural Australia director Janine Evans, who is a Muslim, said it was too simplistic to say that burqas did not fit into Australian society.

"To say it doesn't fit with our way of life and culture shuts the door to (Muslim) women becoming active members of society," she said.

Other Islamic groups dismissed the call as a political stunt aimed at tapping into anti-Islamic sentiment.

Senator Bernardi's comments were backed by security experts but Opposition Leader Tony Abbott said while there was "understandable concern in the community" about people wearing the burqa, a ban was not Coalition policy.

Islamic Friendship Association's Keysar Trad rejected the call as ignorant and said it was a political stunt.

Wearing the burqa actually encouraged women to integrate into Australian society, whereas a ban would only force them indoors where they'd "miss out on the vitamin D".

"It's tantamount to denying them the right to drive, the right to enjoy all the services of society as well as equal opportunity," Mr Trad said.

In France, a bid to ban the veil from public places was about President Nicolas Sarkozy trying to win anti-Islamic votes, Mr Trad said.

Former Victoria Police deputy commissioner Bob Falconer said most police were reluctant to search suspects wearing burqas.

Counter-terrorism and aviation security consultant Roger Henning said that anything which prevented identification of the face posed "a massive risk" to public safety.

"People have used burqas to escape prison, for bank robberies and terrorists carrying explosive devices are sometimes disguised as women," 

 

This controversey caused a lot of frictions in the comunities. Especially after the riots in Cronulla

 

[retroHelen]

The full Burqa pre-dates Islam and was never the culture in all Islamic countries until recently many Imams are telling the British Media. It originates with in old pre-Islamic  Persia/Iran, when the main religion was Zoroastrianism, whose rulers set the trend there by keeping their wives covered in public when they came out of the Harem. Other countries never had face veils except at weddings.

 

My late Great Auntie Lesley had a book of photographs of everyday life in many countries from the Middle-East across to India dated to 1890's-1900 and women were veiled for practical reasons - on the head against the sun, just like their menfolk, not across the face when they were working outside the home, unless there was a sandstorm. They may pull their head veil across the face when married and talking to another man not their husband, like when shopping at a market, but it was noticeable especially in Egypt - no face veils like you see today.

 

This is a culture thing from Persia that is being either forced on women or some women wear it to 'make a point' they are devout, when in fact this is an Iranian cultural tradition beyond their own faith's requirements. 

[Allabord4Jah]

To bad they can't remove their "Spiritual VEILS", this would be better then the material veils across their faces, and entire body coverings.

[sunshine]

The full Burqa pre-dates Islam and was never the culture in all Islamic countries until recently many Imams are telling the British Media. It originates with in old pre-Islamic  Persia/Iran, when the main religion was Zoroastrianism, whose rulers set the trend there by keeping their wives covered in public when they came out of the Harem. Other countries never had face veils except at weddings.

 

My late Great Auntie Lesley had a book of photographs of everyday life in many countries from the Middle-East across to India dated to 1890's-1900 and women were veiled for practical reasons - on the head against the sun, just like their menfolk, not across the face when they were working outside the home, unless there was a sandstorm. They may pull their head veil across the face when married and talking to another man not their husband, like when shopping at a market, but it was noticeable especially in Egypt - no face veils like you see today.

 

This is a culture thing from Persia that is being either forced on women or some women wear it to 'make a point' they are devout, when in fact this is an Iranian cultural tradition beyond their own faith's requirements. 

 

 

Thanks Helen, that was an interesting post.  I remember watching a documentary on Egypt not too long ago and this also highlighted how recent the wearing of the veil is ... it had a discussion between a mother and daughter who had decided to wear a full veil, and the mother was shaking her head pointing out that they never did this when she was a girl. 

 

I Wonder when I see Young French born girls covered head to toe, I think they are making a statement more than expressing devotion to Islam...

[retroHelen]

In Britain some young Moslem men have also started going to school with beards that are getting longer and claiming they are devout and the Koran says they should not shave. (Hope they aren't leaning over Bunsen Burners in chemistry lessons!)  Imams, however, have informed schools that the Koran has no  such rules and the young men are just 'making a statement'. Some schools are expelling such ones until they comply with the school dress code for Health & Safety reasons.

 

School authorities, will accommodate Sikhs who do this as part of their faith, but Sikhs keep their long head hair and beard extremities coiled up under turbans and not in the way of their every day activities. We have Sikh policemen in the UK who have dark turbans for their hair and beards.