Kosher/Halal slaughter banned in Denmark

[Faithful Witness]

This is kind of old news as I think it came into affect a few months ago. Authorities in Denmark have banned Kosher/Halal Slaughter as they say "animal rights come before religion".

I was just wondering what are the views of the brothers on here about this kind of slaughter.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2562350/Denmark-accused-anti-Semitism-bans-religious-slaughter-animals-kosher-halal-meat.html

[John Doe]

I think that kosher/halal performed in the right way is completely acceptable.

The animal does not suffer any more than being killed by a nail gun.

[Modeste]

This is largely a very subjective and ideological debate over what is perceived as barbarous towards animals.  Personally i think the whole debate over 'how' you kill an animal for consumption is asinine. Slitting the throat of an animal and letting the blood drain has been a Jewish practice for millenia. Pretty much the same for Arabs and Muslims. 

Animal rights advocates in their 'infinite wisdom' deem this inhumane vs using a stun gun. How on earth they would know what is more painful or not for an animal i do not know. But clearly slitting of the throat is too visceral for them to accept. 

 

My take on it, and in usual Daily Mail fashion, this is a complete an utter non-story, and not even about the 'rights' of animals. I mean think about that for a minute. The animal is so precious to them but they're going to effectively give it better choice as to how they kill it...Its a disingenuous argument in my opinion and actually about further curtailing the rights of religion. 

 

Personally i think Halal\Kosher meat is also cleaner with the blood drained. But that is also a very subjective, academic if not anecdotal discussion. 

[bohemian]

I think it is kinder to stun the animal before slaughter. I appreciate that kosher and halal methods use extremely sharp knives to reduce pain, but the animal is conscious and that makes me think it is not kind. Our modern-day perceptions may not coincide with what Jehovah views as acceptable - animals were slaughtered in their thousands at the temple and it isn't reasonable to assume they had a system of stunning the animals first.

[Greg Dent]

Everyone should do research into what Halal slaughter is. It is very humane. The animal is very much at peace and calm. Then its throat is slit. They cut h juggler vein and it falls down dead. It feels no pain at all. Unlike a shock or stun when it feels the electricity going through the body. Think electric chair. 

 

No other method is kinder than Halal to the animal. Do some research ok guys.

[Musky]

Greg, how do you know it "feels no pain" have you tried it?

You speak in absolutes, but, perhaps you could be wrong? Maybe?

[Greg Dent]

I have seen many scenes of this. The animal does no even whimper when it happens. It is much more human than what happens in slaughter houses. 

 

The animal is dead before it hits the ground.

 

I can think of at least 5 episodes of Chef Anthony Bourdan's shows where he shows this happening with sheep and goats. He comments how at peace the animal is at when it happens. The person doing it makes sure the animal is calm. It is on of the most human ways to kill an animal. 

[John Doe]

Think of this:

God taught the Israelites how they should circumcise their boy children. He said that it should be done on the 8'th day. Why? God knew that was best for the children, their immune defense system was strongest at day 8.

Good also told the Israelites how to euthanize their stock, probably in a way that caused as little suffering as possible.

At least that's how I see it...

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Edited August 1, 2014 by John Doe

[Julsey]

The meat-producing industry, in general, would like us to believe that their animals are treated humanely, but there are plenty of undercover videos to prove how untrue this is.  Man has not only dominated man to his injury, but animals as well.  I long for the day when 'all creation' will no longer be groaning in pain together.

[analynandmichael]

I am from denmark and although i read about it, there is nothing specific or noteworthy happened or was even heard in connection with halal food.

Muslim community is big and getting bigger here. From time to time some turns up at our meetings to discuss or more like argue.

[retroHelen]

Actually the method of slaughter used by Jews today is not the same as that in the Bible. Even studious Jews admit this. The ritual used today could not have happened in Bible times. God gave laws for the letting of blood of an animal hunted and killed in the wild, so it would have been freshly dead by spear or arrow by the time the hunter slit it's throat.

 

Modern Jewish law only allows consumption of meat that has been bled by the schecita method and by the specially assigned person to perform it, so orthodox Jews never eat hunted meat, which was allowed for the Isrealites.

 

Here's some cut and paste quotes I found on encyclopaedias online on the subject:

 

Rabbinical sites state:

 

"As with all the biblical laws of Shechita, the source is oral tradition from God via Moses, as it says regarding Shechita in the Torah Deut 12:21" and there is no written record of that command.

 

"The principal objection to shechita,  is that the animal is not stunned prior to the kill. Stunning is expressly forbidden by the traditions of the Torah.

“...a blow to the head is forbidden. Perforation of the brain membranes constitutes one of the eight mutilations which render meat 'trefah'...” 

Also, the blow/cut must be completed without pause, pressure, stabbing, slanting or tearing - therefore done with a special knife. It must sever the skin, muscles, oesophagus, trachea, carotid arteries and jugular veins. It is forbidden to eat the meat of animals which exhibit no movement either during or after slaughter." 

 

- The above quote sounds very like the Pharasees of Jesus' day, inventing lots of extra rules until mercy starts disappearing.

- To be sure of getting as much blood as possible from the animal, it must be 'alive enough and moving during at least the start of the cutting and bleeding' - in fact this was shown on TV here (as it is just as controversial in the UK, but the government haven't decreed on it yet), where I saw it,  even if the movement may be just 'death throw twitches' later on.

 

In my opinion, I think this went too far - beyond what God reasonably requires. The Jews then have all kinds of beating, soaking and boiling and draining of the meat to get as much of the supposed blood away during cooking that God never required either. Having been to Israel and discussed this with Jews at the Hotel I was staying at, this was the impression I had of a people to whom ritual had become more important than the original reason for God organising it. I asked them as to what they therefore do about going into hospital and being told they needed a blood transfusion, and they felt OK with that and didn't see the link with Leviticus 17:10,11 Where God ways that ANY sort of blood is sacred to him and only has one use for atonement or disposal to return to him.

 

Early 20th Century writer/critic's quote on the subject:"Mahomedans ... will willingly waive their religious objections to stunning provided the throat is cut immediately afterwards. Which, doubtless, is a great comfort to the cow."

 

"If it is not painful, why are criminals not executed like this instead of hanged?  He cites a 1904 report by the Admiralty Committee, a report which, he claims, was endorsed by two physiologists, as undoubtedly it was. In this case, these two medical experts were of the opinion that “shechita does not free the animal from unnecessary pain, and that it should not be permitted under any establishment under government control.”

 

The oral talmud specifies a certain person highly trained and set aside for the purpose called sochet perfoms the shechita according to a certain ritual. This person was paid for by taxing the meat to pay his salary and the meat examiners too. This actually shows that shechita could not have been practiced by the Jews of the Bible, as anyone could slaughter an animal so long as it was bled afterwards. No sochet with special ritual or knife is spoken of nor tax paid for the assigment in the Bible.  So how can they claim this is part of the oral Torah given to Moses??"

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shechita

Edited August 15, 2014 by retroHelen

[dozerman5676]

Jehovah does not take the matter of an animal being killed lightly.  In our Bible highlights last month it was mentioned more than a few times.  The SI book says:

 

"During the ceremony at the installation of the priesthood, Aaron and his sons laid their hands on the head of the bull and the two rams to be sacrificed, thereby acknowledging that these animals were being sacrificed for them for the sake of their becoming priests of Jehovah God. (Ex 29:10, 15, 19; Le 8:14, 18, 22)"

 

Jehovah wanted the priests to have personal contact with these animals and recognize that they were actually being killed for the people's benefit....  All life is precious to Jehovah so we should always be thankful and respectful for his living creations even if they are to be used by us for food.

[retroHelen]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/9245850/Religious-butchering-now-commonplace-in-Britain-leading-vet-claims.html

 

"Professor Bill Reilly, ex-president of the British Veterinary Association called for the practice to be dramatically curbed, Referring to a report by the former Animal Welfare Council he claimed that this religious ritual slaughter causes "such a massive injury, it could result in very significant pain and distress", particularly because the throat has a large number of nerve endings

 

As a veterinary student in the 1970s he confessed to being "appalled" after witnessing orthodox Jewish Schecita slaughter for the first time, writing that "the distress, fear and pain were there for all to see (and hear) in the abattoir".

 

-As I have researched above, this was not the way that God required the Israelites slaughter animals, this was oral tradition added to God's laws and we know how Jesus felt about those:Mark 7:5-13 ...."YOU make the Word of God invalid by your tradition which YOU handed down and many things similar to this (merciless corban laws) you do" Matthew 9:13 " I want Mercy and not (just the rituals of) sacrifice"