How important is it to 'get it right'?

[RaymondG]

Having noted some unfortunate incorrect uses of the English language, Jerry has invited me to start a thread on the subject...

Please note a few things about what's intended here:

1. To help people improve their language usage and knowledge

2. To show that Jehovah appreciates our efforts in doing so

3. To help our brothers and sisters who have problems in this area

4. To help those to whom English is a 'second language'

5. To be encouraging.... and finally...

6. To have some fun!

To start, we'll look at some really common errors people make, things which appear on this forum pretty much on a daily basis -

{quote]People have trouble with their, there and they're

Their relates to possession. People have their things, people lose their minds, people love their families.

There relates to position. Things are 'over there', or sometimes 'under there' or you might even 'go there'.

They're is an abbreviation of 'They are'. You might say, 'They're nice people!' or 'They're easy to find' or something similar to that.

So if they're keeping their bible literature over there it's pretty easy to distinguish which ones to use, isn't it?

Abbreviating 'have' correctly

We do this in speech a lot. "Hey, he should've gone out today, and you could've too! And I would've if I'd been feeling better."

No, folks, it is not 'of' but it's 'have' abbreviated to suit.

Nobody 'should of', 'could of' or 'would of', nobody at all. Just think about what the words mean and you'll see how easy it is to get it right.

At a later date I'll raise the issue of another way in which the word 'of' is incorrectly used.

My second point was about Jehovah appreciating it if we make the effort to 'get it right'...

The first evidence of this is the effort to which the brothers go to ensure our publications are correct in every way. That's a great example to us and it gives praise to Jehovah as non-Witnesses observe the correctness, sometimes complimenting it.

The second is the way in which this can flow into our speech as we go witnessing. If we expand our word and language knowledge we are less likely to make mistakes and therefore more capable of reaching the hearts of those who might be looking for chinks in our armour.

And how can we have fun?

Why, by reporting back funny things we hear as people misuse the language, of course.

The funniest thing I've ever seen on the internet was on another forum. Most will have heard the expression, 'To all intents and purposes,' and so had this poster. But he obviously didn't understand it correctly.

He posted, 'To all intensive purposes'!

By the way, please don't be daunted if you feel your education level is inferior to others', I didn't even finish High School. Most of the things that will come up here are things that you learned (or should have learned) in Primary School... which you might call Elementary School, perhaps. Anyway, classes for children between about eight and eleven.

[RaymondG]

*** and I or *** and me

I was reminded of this one, something of which I've often fallen foul, reading another thread on a similar subject.

The choice of whether to use 'and I' or 'and me' falls to the position that would apply if there was no '*** and' involved.

So if you were to say, "I went to the beach," then if Joe went with you it would be "Joe and I went to the beach."

But if you're answering your mother's call of "Who's in there?" your answer would be "Me, mum," wouldn't it? but if Joe was there as well, it would be "Joe and me, mum."

Incidentally, I'm sure your English teachers taught you to put the other person first, didn't they? That is a courtesy that is universal.

It's me or It's I

It's me... every time.

[Abbyz]

Keep'em, coming, am learning.

[On the huh]

Who or Whom? I always get mixed up between the two.  Can you explain.

[carlos]

But if you're answering your mother's call of "Who's in there?" your answer would be "Me, mum," wouldn't it? but if Joe was there as well, it would be "Joe and me, mum."

 

Thanks for starting this thread, Ray.

 

My book on "The King's English" says it should be "It is I", and that's the way many older people were taught. "Me" is an accusative, that is, it is used when "I" is the object of a verb. In common speech, though, "It's I" sounds terrible. "It's me" is by far the most common form. I realize there's often a huge difference between the "king's English" and common people English.

 

Incidentally, I'm sure your English teachers taught you to put the other person first, didn't they? That is a courtesy that is universal.

 

Does that rule exist in English too? In Spanish it's really rude to put yourself first. We even have a funny expression when somebody says "I and you": "El burro delante para que no se espante" (The donkey first so that it is not scared")

 

I was always shocked to read in the Bible sentences like “I will keep my covenant between me and you" (Genesis 17:7) or "May Jehovah judge between me and you" (Genesis 16:5). I think usage here should have outweighed word for word literalness.

 

[RaymondG]

First, I have to correct myself...

It's me and It's I

My apologies, I have conferred with someone whose knowledge of these things is way beyond mine and 'it's I' is always correct.

[RaymondG]

Carlos, I was on the phone so long finding that out that you beat me to it on the other one!

Here we have the other wonderful 'understood' word that comes up in the English language.

So the answer is, "I (am), mum!" and "Joe and I (are), mum!"

Okay, on to...

 

Who and Whom

'Who' is nominative and 'whom' is objective. That's really clear, isn't it? Well, I don't understand it since I'm not at school any more. To me the use is more intuitive, based probably on a lot of reading.

Let's try some examples...

'Who are you?'

'To whom do you think we should give it?'

'Bill, who owns this one...'

'She was the one to whom it was due...'

'We will find out who lives here...'

I'm running out of ideas for examples, but by and large 'whom' is used less frequently than 'whom'. And there is the other example based on 'who':

 

Whose and who's

One of the most obvious problems in English is the proliferation of apostrophes and the misuse thereof. Advertising brings out the worst in English usage, please don't use advertising as an example as the copy writers are very poorly versed in the use of the apostrophe.

Of course, the most common uses of the apostrophe are to denote ownership or an abbreviation. Here we are dealing with an abbreviation, not ownership.

'Whose is this car?'

'Who's coming with me?' (abbreviated from 'who is coming with me?')

The same applies to...

 

It's and Its

The it's here is, again, an abbreviation of 'it is', it is not indicating possession.

The its is indicating possession. As in, "It fell on its head."

Edited December 16, 2014 by RaymondG

[RaymondG]

How about this one...

 

Infer or Imply?

In expressing a view you can imply that something is so.

Your listener can then infer that this is the case.

'Implying' is something you do when conveying information, 'inferring' is something you can do when receiving information.

Of course, it's definitely a good idea not to jump to conclusions!

So it's never correct to say to someone, "Are you inferring that I don't know what I'm talking about?" That is, of course, because they are implying it. Nasty people!

And if they have implied it, then you have inferred it...

.

Edited December 16, 2014 by RaymondG

[RaymondG]

And now, I ask, what's your 'take' on this one?

Bring and Take

Nobody seems to ever take anything anywhere any more... they say they are bringing it and it's wrong to do so.

It's a matter of location. You bring things with you or to where you are located. You take things elsewhere.

There are a multitude of variations on this theme. Let's say you are having a conversation on the phone while your spouse is talking to you about options on what's being arranged. You are talking about going to a friend's place for some reason.

You: "What do you want me to bring?"

Spouse: "Do we have to take something?"

Friend on phone: "Just bring yourselves!"

All of these are correct. In your part you are speaking as you will be there, hence 'bringing' something with you is about changing the location of that item to where you will be.

Your spouse is speaking from the point of view of being where you presently are and having to 'take' something with you. I think the friend's position is easily understood.

You get off the phone and say to your spouse, "I think we should take some sandwiches." Again correct, as you are talking about changing the location of the sandwiches from where you are to where they will be.

Folks, to say "I think we should bring some sandwiches." is WRONG. On the other hand, if the friend got off the phone and said, "I hope they bring some sandwiches." he would be correct because he is located at the place to which they will be taken.

'Bring' has become one of the most over-used or inaccurately used words in the language...

[Toy Poodles]

And now, I ask, what's your 'take' on this one?

Nobody seems to ever take anything anywhere any more... they say they are bringing it and it's wrong to do so.

It's a matter of location. You bring things with you or to where you are located. You take things elsewhere.

There are a multitude of variations on this theme. Let's say you are having a conversation on the phone while your spouse is talking to you about options on what's being arranged. You are talking about going to a friend's place for some reason.

You: "What do you want me to bring?"

Spouse: "Do we have to take something?"

Friend on phone: "Just bring yourselves!"

All of these are correct. In your part you are speaking as you will be there, hence 'bringing' something with you is about changing the location of that item to where you will be.

Your spouse is speaking from the point of view of being where you presently are and having to 'take' something with you. I think the friend's position is easily understood.

You get off the phone and say to your spouse, "I think we should take some sandwiches." Again correct, as you are talking about changing the location of the sandwiches from where you are to where they will be.

Folks, to say "I think we should bring some sandwiches." is WRONG. On the other hand, if the friend got off the phone and said, "I hope they bring some sandwiches." he would be correct because he is located at the place to which they will be taken.

'Bring' has become one of the most over-used or inaccurately used words in the language...

 

And what I am constantly reminding the younger generation- there is no such word as "brung". the word is "brought". past tense for "bring". If you already done it then you brought it. 

my 2 cents. 

[trottigy]

Here is one - some one vs someone and any one vs anyone ?

 

Someone refers to an unspecified member of a group of people. 

 

Some one refers to an unspecified member of a group of people that is being selected for individual attention

 

That really clears things up   

[trottigy]

And what I am constantly reminding the younger generation- there is no such word as "brung". the word is "brought". past tense for "bring". If you already done it then you brought it. 

my 2 cents. 

 

Just a thought - it is probably correct to say - already DID it vs already done it. This is the same grammatical issue, yes? 

[Toy Poodles]

Just a thought - it is probably correct to say - already DID it vs already done it. This is the same grammatical issue, yes? 

 

I have no idea, I barely passed grammar, I love to read but have never wanted to learn the fine art of properly writing. lol

The only reason, this stuck in my head and heart was because my maiden name was "broughton" and growing up if I didn't use "brought" then my last name was used constantly for teaching the correct word. 

[Old]

And what I am constantly reminding the younger generation- there is no such word as "brung". the word is "brought". past tense for "bring". If you already done it then you brought it. 

my 2 cents. 

There is such a word, even has a definition.

Kind of falls into the same category as 'aint'.

Aint is not considered proper English no matter what you brung.

[On the huh]

Here is a phase I heard today - "That will learn them".  I think it should be "That will teach them".  But I have often heard the words learn and teach used in ways that don't sound right.

[RaymondG]

All of which raises...

 

Brought and Bought

You might well have brought something you bought, mightn't you?

Brought being the past tense of bring and bought being the past tense of buy. I might ask you to buy something and bring it with you, so when you get to where I am you have brought something you bought.

To be honest, this one is normally a problem in speech rather than in writing.

'Ain't', of course, is a corruption (or lazy person's way of saying) 'aren't'.

'Done' is correct if you say, "I have done it." But usually you will say, "I did it."

.

Edited December 16, 2014 by RaymondG

[RaymondG]

Originally posted by Jonathan

Here is a phase I heard today - "That will learn them".  I think it should be "That will teach them".  But I have often heard the words learn and teach used in ways that don't sound right.

No, that doesn't sound right and it isn't right. Nor is "...don't sound right" right.

Using 'learn' in this way is similar to another one that's crept into modern speech...

 

Times

"And you times that by twelve," you might hear someone say. Totally incorrect. To say "Twelve times that is..." is okay, but the verb you want is multiply.

The corrected statement would be, "You multiply that by twelve."

.

Edited December 16, 2014 by RaymondG

[ava]

Here is one that drives me crazy.

 

Your, You're

[RaymondG]

Yes, so easy to understand, so often misunderstood...

Your and You're

"I'll go around to your place because you're such a nice person with whom to spend time."

Your is possessive. You're is an abbreviation of 'You are'. Really simple, I don't know how to explain it any other way.

[RaymondG]

Is it now time for 'loose' and 'lose'?

 

Loose and Lose

I've been thinking about how to explain this and the best I can come up with (others may feel free to try...) is that you relate lose to lost. Something you lose has to be lost, and there's only one 'o' in 'lost so there must only be one 'o' in 'lose'.

Loose, on the other hand, is not only spelled differently it is spoken differently. It's related to 'loosen', it is spoken more 'loosely', almost as if there's a second 's' in there to accentuate the free manner in which it is spoken.

So if you turn your animals loose you may find that you'll lose them, that they'll be lost.

.

Edited December 17, 2014 by RaymondG

[RaymondG]

I fear I have done Jonathan a disservice a few posts back...

I wrote in response to his post:

No, that doesn't sound right and it isn't right. Nor is "...don't sound right" right.

However, I've just noticed that Jonathan had written "...in ways that don't sound right." He was correct in that, I should have given a more complete example:

Nor is "It don't sound right." Or, perhaps, "Something don't sound right." In both cases 'doesn't' is the appropriate word.

[RaymondG]

I just heard something on television that made me think of another common error...

It's about numbers and quantities.

Less and Fewer

Less is about smaller in volume while fewer, which is rarely used, is about lower in number.

"There was less than five there..." is wrong. It should be: "There was fewer than five there..."

"There was less than a cupful there..." is correct.

[RaymondG]

Would anyone care to discuss 'Moot'?

[feather]

 

  appreciate your thread Ray 

 

   current use of the English language is a mess ~ infected with

                                 too much slang... "what up dawg?"   "yo dude!"

                                 lazy abbreviations... idk, omg...

                                and mindless palaver... "like"

[RaymondG]

I actually have a pet hate...

When you're being served in a shop, the shop assistant (or console operator etc) ends every sentence or question with "today". Couldn't they give 'today' a rest?

Obviously, unless you're in a place ordering something that's not there right now, or arranging a delivery some time, there's no need to confirm that your discussion is taking place 'today' at all!

And then, as you walk out they demand that you "Have a nice day."