Vaping - anyone know our view?

[Brother Arellano]

Vaping also has connections to drugs, so I would err on the side of caution and not recommend it to anyone. It sounds like this sister has good intentions so hopefully a good well researched discussion will help change her mind about recommending it. 

[Tortuga]

Reason is a sister is encouraging her studies who smoke to switch to vaping.  She says it's ONLY WATER.  Everything I've read says they have 5 ingredients minimum; including something found in anti-freeze and chloroform (I think).  Also on the news...one state was trying to ban them.

 

Just a side note. She should be encouraging them to follow Bible principles and stop smoking. She shouldn't be telling them how to do it. She should stick to what she has been taught.

[MzT]

Just because I was curious, I did check the definition of vaping.  

 

Here is the definition per Google:

 

vape

vāp/

informal

verb

gerund or present participle: vaping

1. inhale and exhale the vapor produced by an electronic cigarette or similar device.

   "I'd rather people vaped indoors than smoked outside"

    

    

    

   Next, I wondered whether it's acceptable to do in public situations in the US and found this article:  http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2014/04/29/should-e-cigarettes-be-allowed-in-the-workplace/

    

   Notice a few points this article makes:  

    

   1)  as of April 19 (2014), e-cigarette use was banned in bars, restaurants and other public spaces throughout Los Angeles.....

   Meantime, 150 municipalities have banned vaping in public spaces including restaurants, bars and offices.  The list is rapidly expanding. In January, only 100 cities and towns, including Seattle and Boston, had vaping bans. Just today, broad bans are taking effect in New York City, San Francisco and Chicago.
2.  - (It's illegal to do in public places in several major city already.  Does this sound like something acceptable for a witness of Jehovah to get involved with?)

 

2)  Some 28 states and the District of Columbia ban smoking at work, but only three—New Jersey, Utah and North Dakota—have added e-cigarettes to those bans.  (So, it's again banned from being used in the workplace in at least three states as 2014.  Again, does this sound like something acceptable for a witness of Jehovah to get involved with?)

 

In the end, even though it seems to be unclear whether there are harmful effects from this practice (toxins, nicotine or not, chemicals,etc.), the current trend within the US and perhaps other countries is to consider vaping a form of smoking which circles back to the original question - is smoking a practice that Jehovah approves of?

 

Whether it has nicotine or chemicals in the "e-cigarette"  isn't as important as answering whether it's a form of smoking or smoking cessation.   Even the secular literature seems to link the practice with smoking, so that should help us determine if it's accepable or not.

[Old]

I don't think we should splitting hairs on this topic at least as far as it applies to Jehovah's people

Inhaling vapor containing nicotine, marijuana, or other mood alternating chemical for recreational use would be a form of phamakia or druggery and should be viewed the same way as other recreational drugs. 

 

If there is a valid medical purpose in vaping it would warrant further consideration.

 

That being said my mother use to vap us kids when we had a head cold. 

Camphor and eucalyptus oil in a steamer. 

[ReadYourBible]

My husband has taken up vaping.  He's 'quit smoking' for 2 months now.  He sees it as a way to wean himself off the smoking altogether, he's reduced his nicotine intake from 18 mg nic/mL to 12 just recently.

 

There are these ingredients in his vaping mix.   He's gone from inhaling 1000 known carcinogens to propylene glycol, vegetable glycerine, natural and artificial flavouring and 12 mg of nicotine.

 

1000 mg = 1mL depending on density.  12 mg nic/mL in 1.2% juice.  He goes through about 1.6 mL of juice a day. About the equivalent to a pack of smokes which usually is about 19.2 mg nicotine, as the amount of nicotine absorbed in 1 cigarette is roughly 1 mg.

 

I understand why this sister would think that this were a better alternative to smoking. For someone who smokes, I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that 1000 carcinogens reduced to ~5 is a good trade off.   Still doesn't make it right for a servant of Jehovah to be doing it though.

 

I wonder when we're going to start talking to all the fatties in our organization.  (I'm including myself in this group), we have a lot of rotund people and that can't be a loud shout of praise to Jehovah.  

[JSmith]

From my absolute ignorance of what vaping is, I suppose it depends. As long as the "vape" contains nicotine or other drugs, it's clearly a no-no.

But if there is truly a variant with zero nicotine or other drugs, that doesn't create addiction and is not harmful for your health, and not forbidden by the law, I don't see any problem with it. If you want to pay to inhale water vapor with a nice fragrance, that's your choice.

Wouldnt it be imitating a harmful and forbidden practice though?

Maybe it doesnt have the drug in it but you want everyone else to THINK you are really smoking?

Can you imagine that being permissable at christian gatherings and not stumbling others? What if passersby drove by the Kingdom Hall to see a clutch of "vapers" huddled outside. Would that not cause them to view us as hypocrits? What about other Bible Studies that are legitimately trying to quit what they are taught is a god displeasing habit and they see people "imitating" that habit?

[AH173]

There is a huge difference between nicotine and alcohol. Alcohol is food. It has nourishing value. A small amount of alcohol has beneficial effects for your health. And it only causes addiction if it's consumed with regularity. Millions of Christians drink a beer or a glass of wine from time to time and it doesn't cause them any harm, rather the opposite.

 

Nicotine, on the other hand, has no beneficial effects at all. It only causes harm. Since it has no nutritional value and no positive effects on your health, the only reason to consume nicotine is as a recreational drug, because one is addicted to it and their body asks for it.

I'm with you Brother Carlos. I really don't get when there's a comparison between alcohol (moderate consumption) and smoking (nicotine in any form). The Bible shows many servants 9f Jehovah to use moderate use of alcohol. Jehovah said of such moderate users as faultless, blameless and righteous. This is not so with mind/mood altering non prescription chemicals.

[Tortuga]

It seems that if the sister is telling her students to switch to vaping (if the vaping contains any nicotine) that would be the same as telling them to use a nicotine patch or other smoking substitute. I can't remember any of the articles about smoking to ever suggest that someone start using a patch or any other substitute. She should follow the advice from the FDS and just give them the scriptural principles they need. She needs to be balanced in how much 'practical' advice she provides.

 

Has this been posted yet?

 

*** w14 6/1 What Is God’s View of Smoking? ***

SMOKING EXTINGUISHED FOR GOOD!

Bible knowledge helped Olaf, Jayavanth, and Armen to break free from a degrading habit that was hurting them and others. They succeeded not simply because they knew that smoking is harmful but because they came to love Jehovah and desired to please him. The vital role of love is emphasized at 1 John 5:3, which states: “This is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome.” Of course, following Bible principles will not always be easy, but when a person is moved by strong love for God, obedience will not be a burden.

Through a global educational campaign, Jehovah God is now helping millions of people to break free or keep free from enslavement to tobacco. (1 Timothy 2:3, 4) Very soon, by means of his Kingdom—a heavenly government under his Son, Jesus Christ—Jehovah will eliminate the greedy commercial system that is responsible for enslaving millions to tobacco. He will extinguish the smoking epidemic for good and raise obedient humankind to perfection in body and mind.—Isaiah 33:24; Revelation 19:11, 15.

If you are struggling to quit smoking, take heart. By learning to love Jehovah and to appreciate his view of smoking, you too can find the motivation you need to succeed. Jehovah’s Witnesses will be happy to provide you with practical, one-on-one assistance to learn and apply Bible principles. Be assured that if you want Jehovah’s help to break free from tobacco addiction, he will supply the power and strength you need.—Philippians 4:13.

[Footnote]

Smoking here refers to inhaling tobacco smoke directly from cigarettes, cigars, pipes, or water pipes. However, the principles discussed apply equally to the use of chewing tobacco, snuff, electronic cigarettes that contain nicotine, and other products.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Tortuga

[AH173]

Thank you. I was searching for that last night.

Seems like CASE CLOSED to me! ☺

[Tortuga]

Thank you. I was searching for that last night.

Seems like CASE CLOSED to me! ☺

 

I think the real issue is if they are using nicotine or not and we know what the answer is.

[Tortuga]

Here is another article about quitting smoking and the effects of using medications. It mentions the nicotine patch and I think the e-cigs would be the same as a patch if someone was using them to stop smoking. Even if the sister is suggesting to her students to vape in order to wean off of smoking, her advice is not consistent with the articles we have from the FDS.

 

*** g 5/10 p. 5 Seek Out Help ***

SHOULD YOU USE MEDICATION?

  Medications to help smokers quit, such as the nicotine patch, have become a multibillion-dollar industry. Before going down that road, consider the following questions:

  What are the benefits? Many therapies are said to increase your chances of quitting by reducing withdrawal symptoms. There is some debate, though, about their long-term effectiveness.

  What are the risks? Some medications have potential side effects, such as nausea, depression, and suicidal thoughts. Keep in mind too that nicotine-replacement therapies simply provide another form of the drug, along with its health risks. In reality, therefore, the person using them is still in a state of addiction.

  What alternatives exist? In one survey 88 percent of successful quitters said that they went cold turkey by abruptly ceasing tobacco use without the aid of drugs.

[Brenda]

I called a couple of vape stores today.  They both said the basic ingredients are:

 

most widely used e-liquid bases: propylene glycol (PG) and vegetable glycerin (VG). E-liquids contain four ingredients: a PG and/or VG base, nicotine, water and flavorings

 

One website stated (wish I got the link) that of 10 different zero-nicotine e-liquids tested... 9 out of 10 had some nicotine in them in various amounts.

 

Nothing I read seemed to indicate a safe product.

 

I'm going to talk to the CO ... and get his comments.

 

Thanks all for your insightful comments and research...highlighting how Jehovah feels about doing anything to harm our bodies.   

 

As Bro Ashley said CASE CLOSED for me.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Brenda

[Cool Cat]

Here is another article about quitting smoking and the effects of using medications. It mentions the nicotine patch and I think the e-cigs would be the same as a patch if someone was using them to stop smoking. Even if the sister is suggesting to her students to vape in order to wean off of smoking, her advice is not consistent with the articles we have from the FDS.

 

*** g 5/10 p. 5 Seek Out Help ***

SHOULD YOU USE MEDICATION?

  Medications to help smokers quit, such as the nicotine patch, have become a multibillion-dollar industry. Before going down that road, consider the following questions:

  What are the benefits? Many therapies are said to increase your chances of quitting by reducing withdrawal symptoms. There is some debate, though, about their long-term effectiveness.

  What are the risks? Some medications have potential side effects, such as nausea, depression, and suicidal thoughts. Keep in mind too that nicotine-replacement therapies simply provide another form of the drug, along with its health risks. In reality, therefore, the person using them is still in a state of addiction.

  What alternatives exist? In one survey 88 percent of successful quitters said that they went cold turkey by abruptly ceasing tobacco use without the aid of drugs.

Those who use nicotine replacement aids when trying to give up are more likely to be successful at giving up.

[Tortuga]

I'm going to talk to the CO ... and get his comments.

 

I'm wondering how you plan to handle this situation. Do you plan to talk to the sister? Are you planning to just tell the CO and let him deal with it?

 

I'm curious what you plan to do next...

[Tortuga]

Those who use nicotine replacement aids when trying to give up are more likely to be successful at giving up.

I really don't know if that is true or not, I haven't researched any statistics except for the information in the Awake.

 

For the sake of this discussion I think the point was whether or not a Christian should recommend or approve any specific methods or medication to someone that is trying to quit smoking. The principle that I have gleaned from the W&A is that the FDS will provide warnings about various method or medications and leave it up to the individual to make a personal decision.

 

In this case the sister may be telling the student that it is OK to vape because she believes it is a non-nicotine substitute. There is a possibility the sister is unknowingly giving the student bad advice. The principle is that if we follow the example of the FDS, we should provide Bible principles and the information the student needs to make their own decisions.

[E_B]

There is a huge difference between nicotine and alcohol. Alcohol is food. It has nourishing value. A small amount of alcohol has beneficial effects for your health. And it only causes addiction if it's consumed with regularity. Millions of Christians drink a beer or a glass of wine from time to time and it doesn't cause them any harm, rather the opposite.

 

Nicotine, on the other hand, has no beneficial effects at all. It only causes harm. Since it has no nutritional value and no positive effects on your health, the only reason to consume nicotine is as a recreational drug, because one is addicted to it and their body asks for it.

 

I actually know a brother from New Jersey who's in the research department of a big pharmaceutical company.  He was telling me that there are number of drugs in the brain disease field-- mainly schizophrenia and Alzheimer's-- that are actually nicotine-based and are showing amazing results.

 

So I definitely see your point, but maybe nicotine is one of those natural substances where we simple humans have not yet found the right use for.

[Tortuga]

I actually know a brother from New Jersey who's in the research department of a big pharmaceutical company.  He was telling me that there are number of drugs in the brain disease field-- mainly schizophrenia and Alzheimer's-- that are actually nicotine-based and are showing amazing results.

 

So I definitely see your point, but maybe nicotine is one of those natural substances where we simple humans have not yet found the right use for.

 

It's a natural insecticide.

[E_B]

Sorry, I'm not able to edit my post above since I'm "Limited Access" and have to get each post approved by the moderators.  (Maybe after my 100th post? LOL!!).  But forgot to just share one additional piece this brother shared with me (in response to Carlos' statement that:  Nicotine, on the other hand, has no beneficial effects at all. It only causes harm.)

 

He was saying that it's not the nicotine that causes the harm to our bodies (i.e., cancer, lung disease, etc.), it's the tar and tobacco smoke...all the other stuff in the traditional nicotine delivery methods.  So historically, being addicted to nicotine was bad because users had to take all these other toxins (tobacco, tar, etc.) into their bodies to get the nicotine.  He said that nicotine is still addictive, but its only real effect on the body is speeding up brain function and constricting blood vessels-- he said it's clinically very similar to the affects of caffeine.  He used the illustration of super-caffeinated coffee:  "Imagine that for all of history, you could only drink caffeinated beverages out of cups made of lead.  Eventually you die of lead poisoning.  It's not the coffee that did you in, it was the cup-- the delivery method.  Suddenly we realize that we can still have the caffeinated beverage, but can now drink it out of a perfectly safe container made of glass." 

 

He wasn't advocating vaping or taking nicotine at all, just explaining the uses of it and misinformation about it.

[E_B]

It's a natural insecticide.

 

LOL!!! Maybe it kills them by over-"caffeinating" them!!!

 

[PrairieGirl]

The old Live Forever book, suggested praying, getting rid of all smoking paraphernalia. And pray every time you have the urge. I believe to this day that has the BEST results, nothing is stronger then Jehovah. 

 

My step father smoked for 30 years when we came into the truth, he quit by using the Live Forever books suggestions... now it's been another 30 years and he has never went back to smoking... in fact the scent of it makes him sick now. 

 

For those trying to stop with out Jehovah's help, maybe the medications would help... but for those using Jehovah as their refuge, rock, and complete help... it's been pretty successful with out the medications. 

[Cool Cat]

The old Live Forever book, suggested praying, getting rid of all smoking paraphernalia. And pray every time you have the urge. I believe to this day that has the BEST results, nothing is stronger then Jehovah. 

 

My step father smoked for 30 years when we came into the truth, he quit by using the Live Forever books suggestions... now it's been another 30 years and he has never went back to smoking... in fact the scent of it makes him sick now. 

 

For those trying to stop with out Jehovah's help, maybe the medications would help... but for those using Jehovah as their refuge, rock, and complete help... it's been pretty successful with out the medications. 

The truth was what helped me give up. I had attempted about 7 times prior, but my desire for the freedom of speech to teach and desire to teach someone about Jehovah helped me give up for good. Not one cigerette for over 5 years.    The power of Jehovah's spirit and the truth is able to conquer all sorts of problems. Each of those 7 times prior I was not in the truth. Started learning the truth and voila I stopped! 

 

I LOVE JEHOVAH!

[Tortuga]

Speaking of tobacco, I was surprised to find out that a lot of men's cologne use tobacco.

[vern]

I've meditated on the fact that you could use tobacco as an incense or even as an aromatic without burning.  Its not like its not part of Jehovah's creation.  its just misused.  I use to like the smell of the tobacco shop in the mall when i was a kid.  had nothing to do with it being smoky.

[AH173]

I just seen an ad for vaping for caffeine from some eagle company. It's use for more than nicotine, it guess.

[Tortuga]

I just seen an ad for vaping for caffeine from some eagle company. It's use for more than nicotine, it guess.

Wow, I wonder if I can vape my One-A-Day vitamin...