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Russia and US 'planning military coordination against Isis in Syria'


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Interesting, Pentagon seems to be in line with Donald Trump about Russia and Syria. And interesting that Pentagon supports Kurds in Syria. 

But CIA from with in Turkey supports rebels who are fighting Kurds. And Turkey fights Kurds. 

Seems like Pentagon is having now the upperhand. 

 

That would explain why  some voices in America are so anti Russia while other voices are more sympathetic. 

 

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John, you speak as if the Pentagon is an independent organization that does not submit to the Executive Branch of the US Government.

 

That's simply not the case.  The "Pentagon" is not some independent organization that chooses to support whomever it wants.  

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2 hours ago, Shawnster said:

John, you speak as if the Pentagon is an independent organization that does not submit to the Executive Branch of the US Government.

 

That's simply not the case.  The "Pentagon" is not some independent organization that chooses to support whomever it wants.  

Shawnster, I don't think you are right. I don't think "  US president, the Senate or the Congress have so much power. Donald Trump has been extensively saying that all politicians except him are bought and paid by special interests. I don't think CIA or Pentagon blindly and obediently  does what the government tells them. To the contrary I think they have their own agendas. Very often the military has more power than the democratically elected government. Just look how often the military has overthrown democratically elected governments. Latest examples are Egypt and Thailand. 

 

How was it, what did it represent that the clay and iron are mixed in the feet in of the statue Daniel 2? :

 

42  And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom will be partly strong and partly fragile. 43  Just as you saw iron mixed with soft clay, they will be mixed with the people;* but they will not stick together, one to the other, just as iron does not mix with clay.

 

In what way does the people represented by the clay make the kingdom fragile? It cannot mean people generally, because all kingdoms consist of humans.

 

Not long ago a famous journalist made some astonishing revelations. 

Has anyone proven him wrong?

 

http://m.democracynow.org/stories/15803

Seymour Hersh’s Latest Bombshell: U.S. Military Undermined Obama on Syria with Tacit Help to Assad

 

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There are three branches of government in the United States...1. Executive---2. Legislative ---3. Judicial.

 

The President of the United States is under the Executive branch.

The House of Representative and the Senate are under the Legislative branch.

The  Supreme Court oversees the court system of the United States. 

Just a mini history lesson for our edification:D


Edited by nanceebgd46
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29 minutes ago, John said:

Shawnster, I don't think you are right. I don't think "

 

Of course you don't...  And you're entitled to your opinion.

 

Just so long as we don't conflate fact with opinion.

 

It tickles me to no end how someone like you, who doesn't live in the United States, invests so much time and energy into the US political scene.

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8 minutes ago, nanceebgd46 said:

There are three branches of government in the United States...1. Executive---2. Legislative ---3. Judicial.

 

The President of the United States is under the Executive branch.

The House of Representative and the Senate are under the Legislative branch.

The  Supreme Court oversees the court system of the United States. 

Just a mini history lesson for our edification:D

 

 

Military falls under Executive Branch.  The  President is "Commander and Chief" of the armed forces.  Police fall under this branch, too.

 

Executive Branch enforces the laws.

Legislative Branch makes the laws.

Judicial Branch makes sure the laws are applied correctly.

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21 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

 

 

It tickles me to no end how someone like you, who doesn't live in the United States, invests so much time and energy into the US political scene.

You know maybe from a previous post that I have been diagnosed with Asbergers' syndrom, and people like that go deep in research. For you normals it is hard to do any really deep research and analysis, while for many Asbergers it is an easy thing. Either not at all research or thorough research. 

 

And I want to understand how the world works. And secondIy USA is in the Bible prophecy. So that is why it is very interesting. A simple prof how big role USA plays in the world is that english is the most widespread language and it is taught everywhere. And here in Sweden all is USA oriented. You see it in politics, finance and entertainment.

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11 hours ago, John said:

How was it, what did it represent that the clay and iron are mixed in the feet in of the statue Daniel 2? :

 

42  And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom will be partly strong and partly fragile. 43  Just as you saw iron mixed with soft clay, they will be mixed with the people;* but they will not stick together, one to the other, just as iron does not mix with clay.

 

In what way does the people represented by the clay make the kingdom fragile? It cannot mean people generally, because all kingdoms consist of humans.

 

Interesting, it seem she Watchtower disagrees with your assessment. Please look again at the June 15, 2012 Watchtower - especially page 16, par 9. I'll quote it here, but the entire article is worth reviewing again:

 

Quote

9 Jehovah’s servants have long sought to understand the symbolic meaning of the feet of the image. Daniel 2:41 describes the mixture of iron and clay as one “kingdom,” not many. The clay, therefore, represents elements within the sphere of influence of the Anglo-American World Power, elements that make it weaker than the solid iron of the Roman Empire. The clay is referred to as “the offspring of mankind,” or the common people. (Dan. 2:43) In the Anglo-American World Power, people have risen up to claim their rights through civil rights campaigns, labor unions, and independence movements. The common people undermine the ability of the Anglo-American World Power to act with ironlike strength. Also, opposing ideologies and close election results that do not end up in a clear majority have weakened the power base of even popular leaders, so that they have no clear mandate to implement their policies. Daniel foretold: “The kingdom will partly prove to be strong and will partly prove to be fragile.”—Dan. 2:42; 2 Tim. 3:1-3.
 

http://m.wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2012443#h=2


Edited by trottigy
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2 minutes ago, John said:

 

And I want to understand how the world works. And secondIy USA is in the Bible prophecy. So that is why it is very interesting. A simple prof how big role USA plays in the world is that english is the most widespread language and it is taught everywhere. And here in Sweden all is USA oriented. You see it in politics, finance and entertainment.

 

But it's not just the USA that is involved in the prophecies about the KotS or the 7th world power.  Do people in the UK feel just as strongly that the US is the more important part of this dual empire and the UK portion can be effectively ignored?

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4 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

 

But it's not just the USA that is involved in the prophecies about the KotS or the 7th world power.  Do people in the UK feel just as strongly that the US is the more important part of this dual empire and the UK portion can be effectively ignored?

I agree that it is not only about USA. And because of that it is interesting to know about all developments. About UN and Nato and what Donald Trump says he will do with them if he becomes president and much more. But UK should admit that USA is now the major power. USA is greater in population and military and for example funds Nato 75%. So honestly USA is greater than UK. But UK seems to always support USA as a smaller brother. There is definitively a special relationship. Even Donald Trump wants to preserve it that way. 

8 minutes ago, trottigy said:

 

Interesting, it seem she Watchtower disagrees with your assessment. Please look again at the June 16, 2015 Watchtower - especially page 16, par 9. I'll quote it here, but the entire article is worth reviewing again:

 

 

l don't think so, it speaks about the democratic feature that weakens this empire. That is what is meant with the people. Not people in general but the democratic system where people can influence the political process without being of royal lineage. 

 

43  Just as you saw iron mixed with soft clay, they will be mixed with the people;* but they will not stick together, one to the other, just as iron does not mix with clay.

 

But what is then the iron that does not mix with clay (=democratic feature)?

 

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49 minutes ago, John said:

But UK seems to always support USA as a smaller brother.

In European-centric media, sure.

 

But if you were to watch the US-centric media, the relationship would be flipped, with the US acting as big brother to bail out Europe from the wars.

 

Among veterans and pro-military patriots in the US, there's a common saying. "If it weren't for America, England would be speaking German right now." For those who hold onto this attitude (Trump included), the UK can never be seen as anything but a weaker sibling in need of constant protection.

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1 hour ago, John said:

You know maybe from a previous post that I have been diagnosed with Asbergers' syndrom, and people like that go deep in research. For you normals it is hard to do any really deep research and analysis, while for many Asbergers it is an easy thing. Either not at all research or thorough research. 

 

Speaking as one of the “normal” members here, who happens to be quite familiar with Asbergers Syndrome. I am in agreement that you do have a compulsion to do deep research. One of the noted characteristics of AS is do deep research, but within a narrow band of interest. I see in your post deep concentration/research in one very narrow aspect of the topic. This is true of my AS friends. Your posts display focused attention on one aspect of the KON, namely that the USA is the singularly most important player in these prophecies.

This blinds you to the broader understanding of the topic, as Trottigy has tried to point out.

One thing AS sufferers fail to keep in mind is the ability to focus sharply on one area does not mean that you have greater intelligence than we “normals”.  A superior intelligence that gives you a more informed understanding and more valid conclusions. We poor “normals” are able to view the broader topic, especially so since our broader focus makes it easy apply both scripture and WT research to the topic.

I have found your posts to be interesting and worthy of discussion, but pointing out the limited abilities of us poor “normals” is not encouraging.

 

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2 hours ago, Shawnster said:

It tickles me to no end how someone like you, who doesn't live in the United States, invests so much time and energy into the US political scene

Nevermind


Edited by Tortuga

Read the rest of the topic...
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32 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

Nevermind

 

 

37 minutes ago, Old said:

Speaking as one of the “normal” members here, who happens to be quite familiar with Asbergers Syndrome. I am in agreement that you do have a compulsion to do deep research. One of the noted characteristics of AS is do deep research, but within a narrow band of interest. I see in your post deep concentration/research in one very narrow aspect of the topic. This is true of my AS friends. Your posts display focused attention on one aspect of the KON, namely that the USA is the singularly most important player in these prophecies.

 

This blinds you to the broader understanding of the topic, as Trottigy has tried to point out.

 

One thing AS sufferers fail to keep in mind is the ability to focus sharply on one area does not mean that you have greater intelligence than we “normals”.  A superior intelligence that gives you a more informed understanding and more valid conclusions. We poor “normals” are able to view the broader topic, especially so since our broader focus makes it easy apply both scripture and WT research to the topic.

I have found your posts to be interesting and worthy of discussion, but pointing out the limited abilities of us poor “normals” is not encouraging.

 

 

 

I totally agree with your comments but I don't think he meant to use expression "normal" in an offensive manner 

perhaps better term to use was "general population" or  "those without a syndrome"  

the funny thing is that somewhere in Australian paper I have read similar thoughts about conflicting agendas between CIA and Pentagon ...  Crazy world we are living in ! 

 

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2 hours ago, Stavro said:

In European-centric media, sure.

 

But if you were to watch the US-centric media, the relationship would be flipped, with the US acting as big brother to bail out Europe from the wars.

 

Among veterans and pro-military patriots in the US, there's a common saying. "If it weren't for America, England would be speaking German right now." For those who hold onto this attitude (Trump included), the UK can never be seen as anything but a weaker sibling in need of constant protection.

 

That's what John was saying.  John was saying that the UK acts like a little brother.   Perhaps he's ignoring European-centric media?  Or does European-centric media also portray the USA as the big brother?

 

Personally, I have met people (ok, person) from the UK that were amused at various WWII movies that portray the US as single-handedly winning the war in Europe.  They just smile and shake their head.

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2 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

That's what John was saying.  John was saying that the UK acts like a little brother.

Possibly, though it seemed a little unclear to me.

 

"But UK should admit that USA is now the major power."

 

This seems like the UK is acting as the major power, not that they admit their weaker status.

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While we way over here watch and smile.... obviously the center of the universe is down under :lol:.

 

The beauty of this site is that we can see the world news from a more broader angle, not just what is supplied by the local and national media.  Everyone of us in our respective countries are able to fill us all in on how the good news is being spread in their own country, and how the news is unfolding when big things are happening.  Though we are able to read about fulfillment of prophecies through WT publications, we can discuss the local applications here as it is affecting us - for example how our brothers and sisters in Russia and Ukraine are faring etc (with caution of course).

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3 hours ago, Shawnster said:

It cracks me up when I watch Dr. Who and they portray London as the center of the universe and the UK as the most dominant power on the planet.

If the UK is the most dominant power, why do they get invaded by aliens so often? :P Clearly the US is the dominant power since they can almost always fend off the aliens without the help of the Doctor (Nixon excluded, but that's another discussion entirely).

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9 hours ago, John said:

 

l don't think so, it speaks about the democratic feature that weakens this empire. That is what is meant with the people. Not people in general but the democratic system where people can influence the political process without being of royal lineage. 

 

43  Just as you saw iron mixed with soft clay, they will be mixed with the people;* but they will not stick together, one to the other, just as iron does not mix with clay.

 

But what is then the iron that does not mix with clay (=democratic feature)?

 

 

You may want focus again on what the article said. It did not say the clay was "the Democratic feature", rather it said, "people have risen up to claim their rights through civil rights campaigns, labor unions, and independence movements. The common people undermine the ability of the Anglo-American World Power to act with ironlike strength."

 

So the" common people" thru unions, civil rights campaigns and independence movements are the clay. The 2 countries with their strong military might could do serious crushing -like iron - IF it wasn't for the common people preventing it.

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"people have risen up to claim their rights through civil rights campaigns, labor unions, and independence movements. The common people undermine the ability of the Anglo-American World Power to act with ironlike strength."

 

I equate the above mentioned to democracy. The article also spoke of elections.


And you said what I thought about the iron:

 

"The 2 countries with their strong military might could do serious crushing -like iron - IF it wasn't for the common people preventing it."

 

From your words one could draw the following conclusion: The iron= military= CIA and Pentagon 

 

But there is surely more to it because I don't know all the details about US military. 

Also interesting to remember that the Bible says that iron does not mix with the clay. But exactly how do they not stick together, because it says ?: 

 

"they will be mixed with the people;* but they will not stick together, one to the other,"

 

Exactly who in power is iron and exactly who is clay. 

Is Obama iron or is he clay? And if the congress oposes the president. Which one is iron and which one is clay? But if it all is clay who else in the establishment is iron?

 

That would be interesting to find out would it not?

 

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1 hour ago, John said:

 

From your words one could draw the following conclusion: The iron= military= CIA and Pentagon 

 

But there is surely more to it because I don't know all the details about US military. 

 

Why do you say this?  Why do you think this way?  Why do you draw the conclusion that the iron =military/CIA/Pentagon?  And again, how does the UK fit into your interpretation?  


Edited by Shawnster
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