DISCUSS COURT CASE HERE JW.org - Jehovah’s Witnesses Mobilize Global Response to Threat of Ban in Russia

[Beggar for the Spirit]

The Ministry of Justice explains that the statements indicate that "money may have been sent to finance extremist activities." 

The court asks if this can be seen(documented) that money was spent on extremist activity. 

 

ANSWER:

"The Ministry of Justice does not have exact data." 

 

It sounds like another 10 minute technical difficulty break is coming up  

Edited April 19, 2017 by Beggar for the Spirit

[New World Explorer]

2 minutes ago, Patinage said:

""The representative of the Ministry of Justice explains that the statements indicate that "money may have been sent to finance extremist activities. The court asks, from which it can be seen that money was spent on extremist activity,..""

 

The court is arguing in our favor...!!!

Perhaps Presiding Judge will ask for a Bible Study when the case is done ? 

1 minute ago, Beggar for the Spirit said:

The Ministry of Justice explains that the statements indicate that "money may have been sent to finance extremist activities." 

The court asks if this can be seen(documented) that money was spent on extremist activity. 

 

ANSWER:

"The Ministry of Justice does not have exact data." 

 

It sounds like another 10 minute technical difficulty break is coming up

Well, if they don't have a data why going to the court then? Seriously.. Ministry of Justice is a joke. 

[Ahuvah]

9 minutes ago, Beggar for the Spirit said:

Nor sure if this translation is correct but I think the Court is looking into our lawyers claims that there has been an "unreliability" of the Ministry of Justice's conclusions about JWs hiding information about "importing literature".

So if I am understanding this correctly, the Russian Branch has "provided more than 70,000 sheets of documents for examination to the Ministry of Justice".

 

So I guess 70,000 sheets of information/documents is not enough and is considered "hiding".

What is considered "not hiding" information?   80,000 documents?

no ,,, 70,099

[DinaG.]

11 minutes ago, Beggar for the Spirit said:

Nor sure if this translation is correct but I think the Court is looking into our lawyers claims that there has been an "unreliability" of the Ministry of Justice's conclusions about JWs hiding information about "importing literature".

So if I am understanding this correctly, the Russian Branch has "provided more than 70,000 sheets of documents for examination to the Ministry of Justice".

 

So I guess 70,000 sheets of information/documents is not enough and is considered "hiding".

What is considered "not hiding" information?   80,000 documents?

Those 70 000 sheets do not include information about importing literature. Brothers refused to present the Ministry of Justice this information because Ministry could ask for it from the Customs. I think brothers mentioned 70 000 sheets to show they provided everything they had to present and they do not have anything to hide. It was not their responsibility to provide information about importing literature.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Dina Gavrilenko

[Bluebell]

11:40   Advocate Omelchenko to the representative of the Ministry of Justice: "Can you specify the amount, when, by whom was it spent and for what type of extremist activity?" The Justice Ministry has no information.

 

11:45  The documents that testify that the prosecutor's office collected information about the property of believers are examined. Representatives of the defendant are interested in the representative of the Ministry of Justice, for what purpose this information was collected. Answer: for the purpose of confiscating property in the event that the court adopts an appropriate decision.

 

11:50 am    Inspected letters and gratitude, issued by the authorities of the UC and MRO for help in the improvement of cities. The representative of the Ministry of Justice believes that Jehovah's Witnesses are doing this for the purpose of "missionary activity". Lawyer Zhenkov, referring to the representative of the Ministry of Justice: "Svetlana Konstantinovna, when it came to financing the LRO, you suspected extremist goals. When believers participate in helping the city, you again assume some kind of dirty trick. It can not be so! "

 

11:55   Zhenkov draws attention to the State Religious Expert Examination of the Ministry of Justice, on the basis of which the UC was registered in 1999. Conclusions of this expertise are still in effect. An attempt to revise the conclusions of the competent expertise in the court session is unacceptable.

[Beggar for the Spirit]

1 minute ago, Stormswift said:

no ,,, 70,099

Oh we were so close!

I guess now we are guilty of being "hiding extremists" 

[Raven]

"Can you specifically say what amount, when what was spent and on what specific kind of extremist activity?" At the Ministry of Justice there is no information.

 

They are happy to publicly accuse, but have no backing.

[Patinage]

""The Justice Ministry has no information""

I love that statement !!!!

[Patinage]

Lawyer Zhenkov, referring to the representative of the Ministry of Justice: "Svetlana Konstantinovna, when it came to financing the LRO, you suspected extremist goals. When believers participate in helping the city, you again assume some kind of dirty trick.!» It can not be so! "

 

Caught in their own contradictions !!!!

[Beggar for the Spirit]

So many weeks ago before this Trial, there was a very concerning phrase that was mentioned in the suit filed against us. When I mentioned this phrase in another topic, Sister Victoria was also very concerned and was wondering what this meant exactly?

And now for the first time in the trial this term has appeared.

 

Quote

11:45  

The documents that testify that the prosecutor's office collected information about the property of believers are examined.

 

We hope that this is not referring to the personal property of "believers" (our brothers/sisters) like their homes and land.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Beggar for the Spirit

[Patinage]

""Zhenkov draws attention to the State Religious Expert Examination of the Ministry of Justice, on the basis of which the UC was registered in 1999. Conclusions of this expertise are still in effect. An attempt to revise the conclusions of the competent expertise in the court session is unacceptable."""

So they cannot change their own decision, common sense...!!!

[Raven]

70 experts who examined our literature said that we are not extremist.

[campanula]

12 minutes ago, Patinage said:

Lawyer Zhenkov, referring to the representative of the Ministry of Justice: "Svetlana Konstantinovna, when it came to financing the LRO, you suspected extremist goals."

Her name is also Svetlana! OMG!

[Patinage]

but you are not S. Konstantinovna...

[Beggar for the Spirit]

 

7 minutes ago, Bjern said:

70 experts who examined our literature said that we are not extremist.

Answer from their lawyers:

The Ministry of Justice considers that these examinations have been carried out on the basis of lawyers' requests, which means that they contain private opinions of experts

 

So if these 70 experts were to testify in court, I guess all of their expert testimony would be just considered "private opinions". 

Edited April 19, 2017 by Beggar for the Spirit

[DinaG.]

3 minutes ago, campanula said:

Her name is also Svetlana! OMG!

Doughter of Jacob was also Dinah... OMG ))))

[Raven]

1 minute ago, Beggar for the Spirit said:

 

Answer from their lawyers:

The Ministry of Justice considers that these examinations have been carried out on the basis of lawyers' requests, which means that they contain private opinions of experts

 

So if these 70 experts were to testify in court, I guess all of their expert testimony would be "private opinions". 

It's still a lot of positive opinions, and if they are secular opinions they may pay more attention to them, as they cannot accuse them of personal bias.

[Patinage]

Omelchenko explains that this is not true: a significant part of the examinations were carried out at the request of the courts, law enforcement agencies and customs authorities.

 

That's our lawyer brother's point !!!

Edited April 19, 2017 by Patinage

[Raven]

For example, little wife [mistranslation of our lawyer's name], referring to the conclusions of state expert institution, quotes from the book "Mankind's Search for God" (* included in FSEM). In the book it is written: "To study the different religions does not mean betraying their own faith. It can, on the contrary, strengthened when we see other people looking for the truth and that it is enabled. Knowledge gives insight and understanding of - tolerance for people who have different views. 

 

I like this bit.

 

The irony is that the Russian Orthodox Church has proven to be highly intolerant towards others, yet no issue is made about this.

[Beggar for the Spirit]

I agree with you Ben, I find it very ironic how the Ministry of Justice is trying to dismiss the 70 experts by saying that they are all just "personal opinions". 

Edited April 19, 2017 by Beggar for the Spirit

[Raven]

2 minutes ago, Beggar for the Spirit said:

I agree with you Ben, I find it very ironic how the Ministry of Justice is trying to dismiss the 70 experts by saying that they are all just "personal opinions". 

Here is the exact quote in our book "Mankind's Search for God"

 

*** sh chap. 1 p. 8 par. 11 Why Be Interested in Other Religions? ***
To answer that, we need to know something about the background of the world’s religions. As Geoffrey Parrinder states in World Religions—From Ancient History to the Present: “To study different religions need not imply infidelity to one’s own faith, but rather it may be enlarged by seeing how other people have sought for reality and have been enriched by their search.”  Knowledge leads to understanding, and understanding to tolerance of people with a different viewpoint.

Gotta love that book. 

[Bluebell]

12:17     Representative Novakov: the flinging of extremist materials into the worship buildings of Jehovah's Witnesses acquired the character of an epidemic in Russia. Novakov describes the events of September 20, 2016 at the station Nezlobnoye (Stavropol kr.), When law enforcers cut out the Bulgarian doors and placed extremist materials directly under the surveillance cameras.

[Beggar for the Spirit]

Sorry I had posted this but then the website merged my separate posts.

Here is the exact quote in our book "Mankind's Search for God"

 

*** sh chap. 1 p. 8 par. 11 Why Be Interested in Other Religions? ***
To answer that, we need to know something about the background of the world’s religions. As Geoffrey Parrinder states in World Religions—From Ancient History to the Present: “To study different religions need not imply infidelity to one’s own faith, but rather it may be enlarged by seeing how other people have sought for reality and have been enriched by their search.”  Knowledge leads to understanding, and understanding to tolerance of people with a different viewpoint.

[Ahuvah]

16 minutes ago, Beggar for the Spirit said:

So many weeks ago before this Trial, there was a very concerning phrase that was mentioned in the suit filed against us. When I mentioned this phrase in another topic, Sister Victoria was also very concerned and was wondering what this meant exactly?

And now for the first time in the trial this term has appeared.

 

 

We hope that this is not referring to the personal property of "believers" (our brothers/sisters) like their homes and land.

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong here, because I certainly don't wish to cause alarm if there is no basis for it.

 

Why is this court case so important? Because of a ban? I don't think so .. if it were simply a ban, we historically thrive under such, and are doing so in many countries as I type this.

 

It's the term extremist ... that makes this more horrendous ... because once a group or individuals are deemed legally extremists, then yes, their private property is then affected, they cannot hold jobs, their bank accounts are often frozen and property confiscated,this is why many are referring back to world war II when 'enemies of the state' were renegated to slums because their homes were taken from them. 

They cannot leave or travel to other countries as passports are revoked.

 

So a ban is bad enough, but the label extremist is an attempt by Satan and his Cohorts (including the Russian Orthodox) to label us extremists, so THEY can continue to practice their beliefs because they haven't been labelled so.

 

So we really need to hope for the best here but expect the worst ... and if it goes bad, we have to remember they are poking Jehovah's eyeball. He will act, either in this courtcase or according to his time schedule. 

 

 

[Raven]

1 minute ago, Beggar for the Spirit said:

Sorry I had posted this but then the website merged my separate posts.

Here is the exact quote in our book "Mankind's Search for God"

 

*** sh chap. 1 p. 8 par. 11 Why Be Interested in Other Religions? ***
To answer that, we need to know something about the background of the world’s religions. As Geoffrey Parrinder states in World Religions—From Ancient History to the Present: “To study different religions need not imply infidelity to one’s own faith, but rather it may be enlarged by seeing how other people have sought for reality and have been enriched by their search.”  Knowledge leads to understanding, and understanding to tolerance of people with a different viewpoint.

Caught it in my post quote. ^^