The 'God' Particle

[Áine]

Hopefully very soon they will be in now doubt as to wether there is a God or not !!!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/13/us-science-higgs-god-idUSTRE7BC28H20111213

[Simon17]

Hopefully very soon they will be in now doubt as to wether there is a God or not !!!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/13/us-science-higgs-god-idUSTRE7BC28H20111213

I don't think it will settle that issue really. But it is a fundamental piece of understanding the subatomic nature of matter and energy, including the early expansion of the universe.

[Keep Fighting]

Hopefully very soon they will be in now doubt as to wether there is a God or not !!!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/13/us-science-higgs-god-idUSTRE7BC28H20111213

I don't think it will settle that issue really. But it is a fundamental piece of understanding the subatomic nature of matter and energy, including the early expansion of the universe.

Anniebea, they will all one day understand there is a God. They will indeed. They are working against Jehovah because they don't give Jehovah the glory.

Ezekiel 38: 22 And I will bring myself into judgment with him, with pestilence and with blood; and a flooding downpour and hailstones, fire and sulphur I shall rain down upon him and upon his bands and upon the many peoples that will be with him. 23 And I shall certainly magnify myself and sanctify myself and make myself known before the eyes of many nations; and they will have to know that I am Jehovah.’

[Áine]

Hopefully very soon they will be in now doubt as to wether there is a God or not !!!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/13/us-science-higgs-god-idUSTRE7BC28H20111213

I don't think it will settle that issue really. But it is a fundamental piece of understanding the subatomic nature of matter and energy, including the early expansion of the universe.

My point Simon is that soon they will be in no doubt about the existance of God....

[Holly]

Hopefully very soon they will be in now doubt as to wether there is a God or not !!!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/13/us-science-higgs-god-idUSTRE7BC28H20111213

I don't think it will settle that issue really. But it is a fundamental piece of understanding the subatomic nature of matter and energy, including the early expansion of the universe.

My point Simon is that soon they will be in no doubt about the existance of God....

I think it is hysterical....... people can be so, so, so stubborn and stupid! Not admitting something doesn't mean it isn't so! I think Jehovah and Jesus and the Angels, as brought out on another thread, "laugh and find humorous, all this nonsense man tries to conjer up to prove He isn't real"! "HMMMM, man doesn't use the brain I gave him"....... lolololololol!

[Simon17]

Holly and Rune,

Why animosity against the work of these scientists? There work is ground-breaking and amazing feats for all of us in understanding out world better. Why would that be working against God? Or why would the heavens be laughing at them for these accomplishments? There work has nothing to do with God; just understanding and exploring the universe in very impressive ways.

Perhaps their findings are trivial to the Creator. But would a human parent sit and laugh disparagingly at his child as he was taking his first steps? Or would he mockingly dismiss his child's attempts to read because it was simple for the parent?

[tekmantwo]

Not apples to apples Simon...

It is like a parent gives a unique toy to his beloved child...we give credit to our Heavenly source, they say thanks, where did this come from?

We will, as perfect humans, eventually get all this stuff figured out...angels may help us with some of that. We will for sure give credit to the Source of life, not question how things got there....:readbible:

[Shawnster]

I don't think I like calling it a "God particle", either. Although I wouldn't make a big deal about it if someone did use that term.

It's funny, sometimes, when a true Christian has similar sentiments with those who are turned off by Christendom.

[sianrose]

The term ‘God Particle’ was coined more by marketing than by theologians or scientists. The name was coined by Leon Lederman, a Nobel-Prize-winning physicist, for the title of a book -- The God Particle: If The Universe Is The Answer, What Is The Question? The Higgs boson has nothing to do with God. It was simply a snappy term to illustrate the ubiquitous effect of the Higgs field, and its importance in determining mass. Why is the Higgs boson important? It is thought to be one of the basic building blocks of the Universe. However, no one has ever seen one, although experiments at the Large Hadron Collider are trying to establish if they exist. Yesterday, scientists said that two experiments had seen hints of the Higgs at the same mass, although they would need to gather more data before claiming a discovery. Discovering them would confirm the “Standard Model” of modern particle physics. Ruling them out would open the door to exciting new theories.

[Simon17]

Not apples to apples Simon...

It is like a parent gives a unique toy to his beloved child...we give credit to our Heavenly source, they say thanks, where did this come from?

We will, as perfect humans, eventually get all this stuff figured out...angels may help us with some of that. We will for sure give credit to the Source of life, not question how things got there....:readbible:

That's what science does. It seeks to explain the natural world. Some scientists are also God-fearing people and privately credit a Creator with what they find. Some are not. It has nothing to do with their job, which is science and discovery.

By your rational, you would have bashed Copernicus and Galileo for trying to figure out how the solar system works; or Newton and Einstein for trying to show why heavenly bodies move the way they do. If you think "one day" angels would be able to tell anything we might want to know, then you're advocating the suspension of all science and that really baffles me! It really does.

[Musky]

I think the point some are trying to make is that instead of accepting the Bibles account of creation by an "Intelligent designer" Some scientist are looking for alternative sources for the origins of the universe.

And your're right, we can't judge ALL scientist to be evolutionists or atheists. Man's curiosity was put in him by our creator, and our seeking knowledge is not wrong by any means. But when the answers point to God and are ignored by some scientists just because of that fact and they can't accept it, then that is arrogance.

[tekmantwo]

Not apples to apples Simon...

It is like a parent gives a unique toy to his beloved child...we give credit to our Heavenly source, they say thanks, where did this come from?

We will, as perfect humans, eventually get all this stuff figured out...angels may help us with some of that. We will for sure give credit to the Source of life, not question how things got there....:readbible:

That's what science does. It seeks to explain the natural world. Some scientists are also God-fearing people and privately credit a Creator with what they find. Some are not. It has nothing to do with their job, which is science and discovery.

By your rational, you would have bashed Copernicus and Galileo for trying to figure out how the solar system works; or Newton and Einstein for trying to show why heavenly bodies move the way they do. If you think "one day" angels would be able to tell anything we might want to know, then you're advocating the suspension of all science and that really baffles me! It really does.

No, I dont see it that way...I like science and finding out new things. I sometimes have a hard time putting my thoughts into printed form and typing is usually a struggle for me so I try to condense things so I dont type so much---

When I mentioned angels, my train of thought was circling around FTL travels and maybe wormholes or rifts or---who knows?....I dont believe that its all gonna be handed to us in a bag, I think we will have to do just as is being done today--study, think, experiment, figure it out...we will have the time, thats for sure..lol..

I was just trying to address them finding out things about the universe with out them giving credit where it is due....which, as you stated, some do....

[Holly]

Not apples to apples Simon...

It is like a parent gives a unique toy to his beloved child...we give credit to our Heavenly source, they say thanks, where did this come from?

We will, as perfect humans, eventually get all this stuff figured out...angels may help us with some of that. We will for sure give credit to the Source of life, not question how things got there....:readbible:

That's what science does. It seeks to explain the natural world. Some scientists are also God-fearing people and privately credit a Creator with what they find. Some are not. It has nothing to do with their job, which is science and discovery.

By your rational, you would have bashed Copernicus and Galileo for trying to figure out how the solar system works; or Newton and Einstein for trying to show why heavenly bodies move the way they do. If you think "one day" angels would be able to tell anything we might want to know, then you're advocating the suspension of all science and that really baffles me! It really does.

Simon, I have not and do not "bash" science! You missed the point completely. I merely pointed out the idiocy of trying to prove evolution. " God" Particle was offensive to them because they feel discovery will prove their evolution theory as oppose to creation.... I hope that clears it up for you. Either way, not that serious!

[Simon17]

Not apples to apples Simon...

It is like a parent gives a unique toy to his beloved child...we give credit to our Heavenly source, they say thanks, where did this come from?

We will, as perfect humans, eventually get all this stuff figured out...angels may help us with some of that. We will for sure give credit to the Source of life, not question how things got there....:readbible:

That's what science does. It seeks to explain the natural world. Some scientists are also God-fearing people and privately credit a Creator with what they find. Some are not. It has nothing to do with their job, which is science and discovery.

By your rational, you would have bashed Copernicus and Galileo for trying to figure out how the solar system works; or Newton and Einstein for trying to show why heavenly bodies move the way they do. If you think "one day" angels would be able to tell anything we might want to know, then you're advocating the suspension of all science and that really baffles me! It really does.

Simon, I have not and do not "bash" science! You missed the point completely. I merely pointed out the idiocy of trying to prove evolution. " God" Particle was offensive to them because they feel discovery will prove their evolution theory as oppose to creation.... I hope that clears it up for you. Either way, not that serious!

Hey Holly, no troubles

I see, yea I think you maybe misunderstood what they're doing. They're doing some particle physics. It has nothing at all to do with evolution. The article provided I guess really doesn't explain anything at all, just people explaining why "God Particle" is a odd way to call the thing they're looking for.

[destiny]

I see, yea I think you maybe misunderstood what they're doing. They're doing some particle physics. It has nothing at all to do with evolution. The article provided I guess really doesn't explain anything at all, just people explaining why "God Particle" is a odd way to call the thing they're looking for.

ok this sounded like french to me......

[sianrose]

from a search on the Internet...how I would break down ...the 'god particle' is

Why do people call it the 'god particle'?

"Its theistic nickname was coined by Nobel prizewinning physicist Leon Lederman, but Higgs himself is no fan of the label. "I find it embarrassing because, though I'm not a believer myself, I think it is the kind of misuse of terminology which I think might offend some people."

According to Higgs, it wasn't even Lederman's choice to call it the god particle: "He wanted to refer to it as that 'goddamn particle' and his editor wouldn't let him."

..."Nicknaming the Higgs boson "the God particle" was a brilliant move, because it made it almost unforgettable without adding anything at all to our understanding. And journalists love it – what is journalism for, if not to spread a film of smug misunderstanding across almost everything it touches?"

What is the Higgs boson? ('the god particle')

...subatomic particle long thought to be a fundamental building block of the universe.

Has Anybody Seen My Missing Mass?

The Andromeda galaxy, like all spiral galaxies, rotates majestically in space as if it were a giant hurricane. Astronomers can calculate the rate of rotation for many galaxies from the light spectra, and when they do, they discover something puzzling. The rotation rates seem to be impossible! All spiral galaxies seem to rotate too fast. They behave as if the visible stars of the galaxy were embedded in a much larger halo of dark matter, invisible to the telescope. "We do not know the forms of the dark matter," admits astronomer James Kaler. Cosmologists estimate that 90 percent of the missing mass is unaccounted for. They are frantic to find it, either in the form of massive neutrinos or some unknown but superabundant type of matter.

If you locate the missing mass, be sure to let your local cosmologist know right away!

http://www.watchtower.org/e/19960122/article_03.htm

"The heavens are declaring the glory of God; and of the work of his hands the expanse is telling."—Psalm 19:1.

interesting point...

The theory behind all these particles is called the Standard Model. Billions of dollars, and a shelf full of Nobel Prizes along the way, have culminated in the Standard Model, which accurately describes the behavior of hundreds of subatomic particles. All the pieces of this jigsaw puzzle have been painstakingly created in the laboratory except the last, missing piece: the Higgs particle.

[Holly]

Not apples to apples Simon...

It is like a parent gives a unique toy to his beloved child...we give credit to our Heavenly source, they say thanks, where did this come from?

We will, as perfect humans, eventually get all this stuff figured out...angels may help us with some of that. We will for sure give credit to the Source of life, not question how things got there....:readbible:

That's what science does. It seeks to explain the natural world. Some scientists are also God-fearing people and privately credit a Creator with what they find. Some are not. It has nothing to do with their job, which is science and discovery.

By your rational, you would have bashed Copernicus and Galileo for trying to figure out how the solar system works; or Newton and Einstein for trying to show why heavenly bodies move the way they do. If you think "one day" angels would be able to tell anything we might want to know, then you're advocating the suspension of all science and that really baffles me! It really does.

Simon, I have not and do not "bash" science! You missed the point completely. I merely pointed out the idiocy of trying to prove evolution. " God" Particle was offensive to them because they feel discovery will prove their evolution theory as oppose to creation.... I hope that clears it up for you. Either way, not that serious!

Hey Holly, no troubles

I see, yea I think you maybe misunderstood what they're doing. They're doing some particle physics. It has nothing at all to do with evolution. The article provided I guess really doesn't explain anything at all, just people explaining why "God Particle" is a odd way to call the thing they're looking for.

I got the point just fine, I was commenting on the Scientists pointing out that he did not like it being called the God particle..... that's it. I completely understand the point of their study....

[ReadYourBible]

I disliked how the researcher's notably had an issue with the name of the particle. It's obvious to see that they had an issue with anything related to a religious point of view - either due to personal bias (something I will refer to later on in the paragraph), or fear that religious zealots would grab hold of their work and take the scientific value from it.

In this case, I don't think it's that we do not that value the research being done, it's just that their viewpoint as to the originator of the particle is in direct contradiction to ours.

I know many scientists who would openly deride anyone who believes anything other than science, and have dealt with professors, and students who do just so. However, there are also the select few that look at this and marvel, knowing that such finite particles, like the boson were likely very instrumental in the formation of the universe and wonder just how it was that Jehovah created them.

Both sides are biased though. Those who are not believers are biased, and look for ways to disprove any existence of God (or maybe they just don't care, and couldn't be bothered because they think it is a collection of fairy tales. In a word; Apathetic) Those who are believers are biased as well, and we search out ways to spin the things we see in the physical world around us to point out to those without the same belief - SEE I TOLD YOU THERE'S A GOD!

However, any bias between these two groups is summed up quite nicely by the words of Acts 13:48 - When those of the nations heard this, they began to rejoice and to glorify the word of Jehovah, and all those who were rightly disposed for everlasting life became believers.

When looking at this from the eyes of my own personal bias, I see in it, like I see in every other aspect of our universe (at least the aspects I personally know about), that there is specificity beyond measure in the creation of it. To me, the boson is what the Creation book would point to as part of the 'fine tuning of the radio'. As an aside I am blown away by the atom, protons, neutrons, electrons in different orbitals with specific spin (either up or down), all seemingly in different shapes, that allow them to interact with each other in a SPECIFIC manner, and as if that weren't enough, they're all packed into an itty bitty living space. Atoms of each element, which we've only scuffed the surface of....

There are actually six types of boson, and the Higgs boson is one of them that had not yet been observed. What is pretty cool about this, is that Higgs postulated in the late 20's the existence of this particle in order to satisfy some of the criteria necessary to the Standard Model. The other bosons are the four gauge boson, and the Graviton.

What I can say I do admire about these scientists is that their curiousity has led to us knowing just a little more about the absolutely, spectacular, stupendous, awe-inspiring creations of Jehovah.

Things of this nature give me goosebumps, and cause me to turn my eyes heavenward and wonder that although I am an ant crawling the face of the earth, who am I that Jehovah would actually keep me in mind?

[Holly]

I disliked how the researcher's notably had an issue with the name of the particle. It's obvious to see that they had an issue with anything related to a religious point of view - either due to personal bias (something I will refer to later on in the paragraph), or fear that religious zealots would grab hold of their work and take the scientific value from it.

In this case, I don't think it's that we do not that value the research being done, it's just that their viewpoint as to the originator of the particle is in direct contradiction to ours.

I know many scientists who would openly deride anyone who believes anything other than science, and have dealt with professors, and students who do just so. However, there are also the select few that look at this and marvel, knowing that such finite particles, like the boson were likely very instrumental in the formation of the universe and wonder just how it was that Jehovah created them.

Both sides are biased though. Those who are not believers are biased, and look for ways to disprove any existence of God (or maybe they just don't care, and couldn't be bothered because they think it is a collection of fairy tales. In a word; Apathetic) Those who are believers are biased as well, and we search out ways to spin the things we see in the physical world around us to point out to those without the same belief - SEE I TOLD YOU THERE'S A GOD!

However, any bias between these two groups is summed up quite nicely by the words of Acts 13:48 - When those of the nations heard this, they began to rejoice and to glorify the word of Jehovah, and all those who were rightly disposed for everlasting life became believers.

When looking at this from the eyes of my own personal bias, I see in it, like I see in every other aspect of our universe (at least the aspects I personally know about), that there is specificity beyond measure in the creation of it. To me, the boson is what the Creation book would point to as part of the 'fine tuning of the radio'. As an aside I am blown away by the atom, protons, neutrons, electrons in different orbitals with specific spin (either up or down), all seemingly in different shapes, that allow them to interact with each other in a SPECIFIC manner, and as if that weren't enough, they're all packed into an itty bitty living space. Atoms of each element, which we've only scuffed the surface of....

There are actually six types of boson, and the Higgs boson is one of them that had not yet been observed. What is pretty cool about this, is that Higgs postulated in the late 20's the existence of this particle in order to satisfy some of the criteria necessary to the Standard Model. The other bosons are the four gauge boson, and the Graviton.

What I can say I do admire about these scientists is that their curiousity has led to us knowing just a little more about the absolutely, spectacular, stupendous, awe-inspiring creations of Jehovah.

Things of this nature give me goosebumps, and cause me to turn my eyes heavenward and wonder that although I am an ant crawling the face of the earth, who am I that Jehovah would actually keep me in mind?

[Simon17]

I disliked how the researcher's notably had an issue with the name of the particle. It's obvious to see that they had an issue with anything related to a religious point of view - either due to personal bias (something I will refer to later on in the paragraph), or fear that religious zealots would grab hold of their work and take the scientific value from it.

I don't know, I think it makes sense. It really does not have anything to do with God, so why name it the god particle? I'm sure they don't want religious connotations confusing their work. People will either take hold of their work for the wrong reasons or disparage their work for no reason at all. Its just a particle, best to leave religion out of it and let people decide for themselves what the potential discovery may mean.

I'm sure Einstein would have thought the same if people had taken to calling gravity "The God Force". Why should they? Makes no sense.

[sianrose]

According to Higgs, it wasn't even Lederman's choice to call it the god particle: "He wanted to refer to it as that 'goddamn particle' and his editor wouldn't let him."

..."Nicknaming the Higgs boson "the God particle" was a brilliant move, because it made it almost unforgettable without adding anything at all to our understanding. And journalists love it – what is journalism for, if not to spread a film of smug misunderstanding across almost everything it touches?"

so no nothing to do with God...but because it is hard to find...and journalists like to cling to the name because it causes a reaction....

[ReadYourBible]

Simon, I get what you're saying. However, it goes deeper than just nomenclature. It is an attitude that permeates the scientific world whenever anything related to God comes up.

It's sort of like the H1N1 flu and swine flu. The scientists didn't like it being called the swine flu, but that's where it really came from....

[Simon17]

Simon, I get what you're saying. However, it goes deeper than just nomenclature. It is an attitude that permeates the scientific world whenever anything related to God comes up.

It's sort of like the H1N1 flu and swine flu. The scientists didn't like it being called the swine flu, but that's where it really came from....

Well you are right in general, I agree. Although we have to separate their work from their attitudes, because they are professionals and do a good job with this as well (at least in areas like this which are just pure research), you're right to say this is the prevailing attitude of scientists. I know the study of NAS scientists who are the cream of the crop, found that 93% were atheist or agnostic and that has been growing pointedly over the last century.

[ReadYourBible]

Well you are right in general, I agree. Although we have to separate their work from their attitudes, because they are professionals and do a good job with this as well (at least in areas like this which are just pure research), you're right to say this is the prevailing attitude of scientists. I know the study of NAS scientists who are the cream of the crop, found that 93% were atheist or agnostic and that has been growing pointedly over the last century.

Heh, I don't 'usually' say things unless I know them to be right. Given that I am in the lions den (so to speak) with respect to my education now, and my previous background I am keenly aware that the belief in God has dwindled tremendously.

I am also aware that it is even more rare to find someone to openly profess this belief and share it with others - it is for this reason that I have had great success in providing a witness to those I attend classes with, as there are some who share my belief in a God but are not willing to put it out there and be openly abused for it. I believe this happens a lot in the scientific community.

I've even heard the words "Sharon, you're so intelligent - How can you possibly believe in God?" My retort, if I'm as intelligent as you say I am "How could I not?". I quite enjoy challenging some of their thinking patterns. Each TMS is a spiritual fill up of ammunition. I almost pity them, because I am simply a mouthpiece for Jehovah and often they do not like what they hear.

As for a separation of their attitude from their work, I think I do and show that I did evidenced by this statement:

I may not agree with their inability to see what I see in creation (even though I may know the reasoning behind it), but I do value the work they do and sometimes find it incredibly saddening that none can hold two different belief systems in their head long enough to compare which makes more sense. Some of them are even really nice people, which makes it even harder

[jpcook]

Great points Sian... another great book and source for info on Higgs Boson is from Leon Lederman, in his book "The God Particle" ...published by Delta Pubs. It explains very complex physics concepts in easy to understand terms... with some humor.