Global Warming / Climate Change

[Pjdriver]

Interesting.....but Much to do about nothing. The world points to global warming as Armageddon and many are in an uproar. As JW’s we know that Global Warming is the last thing we have to worry about. It’s just evidence of what man’s greed can do if unchecked.  That’s it! 

 

The panic mode and  the world's thinking is that this will destroy us all!  However, We know that it’s the GT that will come long before global warming will get us.

 

They talk about the hottest temperatures ever on record.... So the thing is, that record covers less than  150 years. So that leaves about 5850 years  out of the 6000 years of human history,.... not to mention millions of years, or if you prefer 4.5 billon years of earth history....and we do know that the earth has in the past gone through some radical changes in temperature. And we’re talking about  1.1 degree Celsius increase in temperature  since the 1880s til now. Did anyone notice? I have a hard time telling the difference between 24 celsius and 25 celsius.   So we can only see a very small piece of the evidence.  

 

It would be like basing all our faith and hope based on just one book of the Bible like Ruth,   with no access to all the other books.  Scientist cannot say with certainty that this is not just another natural shift in earths temperature over millions of years. I’m not saying man hasn’t affected global temperature....but I’ve learned that many scientist like the rest will act politically and for financial gain. Remember these are the same ones that say man evolved millions of years ago and there is no God.  So I take what they say with a grain of salt. 

 

This just my take on it,  I don’t want to discourage or stop any discussion. Even If global warming is as bad as they say,  the Bottom line is, we have nothing to worry about with the climate. 

[computerwiz]

On 7/29/2023 at 7:53 AM, Pjdriver said:

The panic mode and  the world's thinking is that this will destroy us all!

 

Yes indeed!

 

[Witness1970]

I hope I am doing this correctly.  I don't normally upload files.

2023 Heat Report.pdf

 

Nope.  Didn't do it exactly right.  I thought that the PDF was just one certain page, but it was the entire report.

Edited May 22 by Witness1970
Added last line

[Witness1970]

I don't like the phrase 'climate change' because it hides what is happening.  The climate changes over time.  What we are seeing today is rapid climate change and unprecedented global warming.  This is not normal climate change.  It is humans ruining the earth.  The words climate change do not accurately convey the destruction that is going on.

[Lewis]

2 hours ago, Witness1970 said:

I don't like the phrase 'climate change' because it hides what is happening.  The climate changes over time.  What we are seeing today is rapid climate change and unprecedented global warming.  This is not normal climate change.  It is humans ruining the earth.  The words climate change do not accurately convey the destruction that is going on.

 

I agree.

 

Humans started the industrial revolution in the 1700s in which gave birth to Global Warming and Global Dimming in which caused climate to change for the worst.

[Lee49]

Climate change is affecting mental health literally everywhere

 Farmers who can’t sleep, worrying they’ll lose everything amid increasing drought. Youth struggling with depression over a future that feels hopeless. Indigenous people grief-stricken over devastated ecosystems. For all these people and more, climate change is taking a clear toll on mental health — in every part of the world.  

 Although mental illnesses are often viewed as an individual problem, the experts made clear that climate change is contributing to mental health challenges everywhere. ( story cont. )

 

https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2024/05/climate-change-is-affecting-mental-health-literally-everywhere/ 

[Pjdriver]

Some scientist say that Climate change or global warming is the result of coming out of an ice age caused by the flood over 4000 years ago.  

Just sayin’  

[Lewis]

I can get behind the idea that the flood may have caused Ice age or climate change to happen and by looking at paleoclimatic records (like Tree rings and Glaciers) it does support that the planet has gone through some sort of climate to change. However, the climate change then was not Global or happened simultaneously, it was localized at random times. The Global Warming now started at roughly 1750 at the start of the Industrial Revolution and does affect the planet Global and simultaneously. This Global Warming is man made or anthropogenic, prior to 1750 was not man made.

[Pjdriver]

 

3 hours ago, Lewis said:

However, the climate change then was not Global or happened simultaneously, it was localized at random times.

 

The flood would have caused a global cooling for sure.

I don’t deny climate changes...... but I do take climate scientists who dismiss the global flood as though it never happened,  with a big grain of salt.  

 

If the flood happened  (and it did) many of the things they mistakenly attribute to this or that....much of it has to be wrong.  A global flood of the likes of Noah’s day would have made a tremendous impact globally on topography and climate of the entire planet.  

To just dismiss that...., how can we believe half of anything  they say about evidence in geology and climate history.  As much as they say this is all “facts"....in reality it is interpretation of evidence.  This is not empirical science.  Not all Scientists even agree on the evidence. When the majority of them dismiss a global massive flood just 4000 years ago.....how can we trust much of what they say in that field?  Just my opinion. 

 

Likewise, with evolutionary scientist......they dismiss the existence of a creator, and promote evolution. How can we trust how they interpret the fossil records? 

They find a tooth and create an apeman from that one tooth (Nebraska man). Then years later they realize it was just a pigs tooth.  

They all have Degrees too. 

 

Seriously though,  I know mankind is ruining the earth, both physically and morally.....but I don’t get too excited when mainly atheist  Scientists start explaining how things were in the distant past.   When I hear of all the things that will happen in 10 years, I’m not really concerned.....not just becasue I don’t buy everything scientists say when it comes to the planet.....also because it’s become very political.   It is the least of our worries with this whole system coming apart at the seams. 

 

 

 

 

[Lee49]

Liev Schreiber hosts the new CNN Originals Series "Violent Earth." Tonight 9 pm E. 8 pm C.

Schreiber described “Violent Earth” as a “cautionary tale” about the increased frequency of violent storms.  🌪️⛈️🌀⚡

 

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/02/entertainment/liev-schreiber-violent-earth/index.html

[Lewis]

15 hours ago, Pjdriver said:

 

 

The flood would have caused a global cooling for sure.

I don’t deny climate changes...... but I do take climate scientists who dismiss the global flood as though it never happened,  with a big grain of salt.  

 

If the flood happened  (and it did) many of the things they mistakenly attribute to this or that....much of it has to be wrong.  A global flood of the likes of Noah’s day would have made a tremendous impact globally on topography and climate of the entire planet.  

To just dismiss that...., how can we believe half of anything  they say about evidence in geology and climate history.  As much as they say this is all “facts"....in reality it is interpretation of evidence.  This is not empirical science.  Not all Scientists even agree on the evidence. When the majority of them dismiss a global massive flood just 4000 years ago.....how can we trust much of what they say in that field?  Just my opinion. 

 

Likewise, with evolutionary scientist......they dismiss the existence of a creator, and promote evolution. How can we trust how they interpret the fossil records? 

They find a tooth and create an ape-man from that one tooth (Nebraska man). Then years later they realize it was just a pigs tooth.  

They all have Degrees too. 

 

Seriously though,  I know mankind is ruining the earth, both physically and morally.....but I don’t get too excited when mainly atheist  Scientists start explaining how things were in the distant past.   When I hear of all the things that will happen in 10 years, I’m not really concerned.....not just because I don’t buy everything scientists say when it comes to the planet.....also because it’s become very political.   It is the least of our worries with this whole system coming apart at the seams. 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with you here, that there had to have been a drastic change in the climate during and after the flood globally, however, the difference in climate from the time period then and now is not the same, the climate change now is attributed from man's doing solely. That can measured with something that's called the global net flux or Earth's net radiation which is the balance of incoming and outgoing energy (Sun) from the ground surface. 

 

 On the topic of Scientists, all scientists get things wrong on the way in getting things right and you have to take what they say with a grain of salt and that goes for all scientists no matter what field.

[Pjdriver]

1 hour ago, Lewis said:

however, the difference in climate from the time period then and now is not the same, the climate change now is attributed from man's doing solely.

 

Carl, that is one inference from the evidence.  They also  attribute those samples to millions of years, not 4000 years ago. They would laugh at that.  

 

I know one thing for certain,  mainstream scientists have a bad habit of asserting their interpretations of the data as proven facts....when in reality it is an interpretation. I’m not saying they are wrong necessarily, I am very reluctant to jump on that bandwagon. Being a majority does not necessarily impress me. 

 We see that with mainstream Scientists this is a pattern. Evolution is “fact". Man is 300,000 years old this is “fact”,  God is a myth, etc.......Bad track record. 

 

Often we are amazed at what men of science have accomplished like all the computer technology etc.... All of this is “proven” science. It’s not about interpretation.  But we need to be careful not to give that credit to the more interpretive sciences....such as origin science and climate and geological history. The scientist while serving some good, they bring a major bias against a creator and the Bible record. So while they may be correct. I don’t automatically agree with their interpretation based on their bias and past claims. Scientists are just imperfect people with their own beliefs.   IMO.  

 

[Just another lowly sheep]

 

Edited June 6 by Just another lowly sheep
Mistake

[Just another lowly sheep]

On 6/3/2024 at 11:07 AM, Pjdriver said:

 

On 7/29/2023 at 6:53 AM, Pjdriver said:

 

Edited June 6 by Just another lowly sheep
Messed up text. Just delete!

[Just another lowly sheep]

On 7/29/2023 at 6:53 AM, Pjdriver said:

Interesting.....but Much to do about nothing. The world points to global warming as Armageddon and many are in an uproar. As JW’s we know that Global Warming is the last thing we have to worry about. It’s just evidence of what man’s greed can do if unchecked.  That’s it! 

 

The panic mode and  the world's thinking is that this will destroy us all!  However, We know that it’s the GT that will come long before global warming will get us.

 

They talk about the hottest temperatures ever on record.... So the thing is, that record covers less than  150 years. So that leaves about 5850 years  out of the 6000 years of human history,.... not to mention millions of years, or if you prefer 4.5 billon years of earth history....and we do know that the earth has in the past gone through some radical changes in temperature. And we’re talking about  1.1 degree Celsius increase in temperature  since the 1880s til now. Did anyone notice? I have a hard time telling the difference between 24 celsius and 25 celsius.   So we can only see a very small piece of the evidence.  

 

It would be like basing all our faith and hope based on just one book of the Bible like Ruth,   with no access to all the other books.  Scientist cannot say with certainty that this is not just another natural shift in earths temperature over millions of years. I’m not saying man hasn’t affected global temperature....but I’ve learned that many scientist like the rest will act politically and for financial gain. Remember these are the same ones that say man evolved millions of years ago and there is no God.  So I take what they say with a grain of salt. 

 

This just my take on it,  I don’t want to discourage or stop any discussion. Even If global warming is as bad as they say,  the Bottom line is, we have nothing to worry about with the climate. 

 

 

 

You need to adjust your viewpoint away from the question of “whether climate change is happening”, just realize & notice that WEATHER DISASTERS are increasing & worsening, on a GLOBAL SCALE, and RECORD HIGH TEMPERATURES are increasing year-over-year, for the last 10-years straight, and now in the 11th year 
 

We know the earth won’t be DESTROYED completely, BUT, our brothers earth-wide are facing DISASTERS like NEVER BEFORE. We are in fact VERY MUCH AFFECTED by increasing wildfires, hurricanes, tornadoes, massive flooding, blizzards, landslides, mudslides, etc

 

Even insurance companies are no longer able to offer coverage in certain areas, because the disasters are getting so big and frequent, the costs are becoming unmanageable  

 

[Lewis]

On 6/3/2024 at 10:07 AM, Pjdriver said:

 

Carl, that is one inference from the evidence.  They also  attribute those samples to millions of years, not 4000 years ago. They would laugh at that.  

 

I know one thing for certain,  mainstream scientists have a bad habit of asserting their interpretations of the data as proven facts....when in reality it is an interpretation. I’m not saying they are wrong necessarily, I am very reluctant to jump on that bandwagon. Being a majority does not necessarily impress me. 

 We see that with mainstream Scientists this is a pattern. Evolution is “fact". Man is 300,000 years old this is “fact”,  God is a myth, etc.......Bad track record. 

 

Often we are amazed at what men of science have accomplished like all the computer technology etc.... All of this is “proven” science. It’s not about interpretation.  But we need to be careful not to give that credit to the more interpretive sciences....such as origin science and climate and geological history. The scientist while serving some good, they bring a major bias against a creator and the Bible record. So while they may be correct. I don’t automatically agree with their interpretation based on their bias and past claims. Scientists are just imperfect people with their own beliefs.   IMO.  

 

 

I fully see what you are saying here and would agree with you on a lot of the information you stated here, but with Global Warming of today, that is not the case.

 

This Global Warming phenomenon has nothing to do with samples from millions of years ago or has any connection with the flood or some interpretation. The Global Warming of today can be measured and gets observed from various places from the Air/Water/Land like weather stations, weather balloons, radars, satellites, ships, buoys etc. All the data gets stored online daily to which anyone can access to it.

 

It is clear as day that Global Warming is man-made, one could assume that God caused this if one were to believe that this came from the flood.

 

The data of evidence from the satellites and ground instruments has shown that Global Warming started in 1750 when the industrial revolution began and for the first 160 years temperature rose very little (about +0.2C), but around 1910 - 1920 temperature spiked (+0.1C every decade) and stayed consistently right to today and actually rose even higher in the last few decades.

 

This fits the bible for pangs of distress and can be measured and we can see that with our eyes. Its all connected.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 6 by Lewis

[hatcheckgirl]

On 6/3/2024 at 1:58 AM, Lewis said:

This Global Warming is man made or anthropogenic, prior to 1750 was not man made.

Exactly.  To me, this is what lines up with Rev 11:18 bringing "to ruin those ruining the earth".  Never before have humans been able to ruin the earth (in so many different ways).  Everything man has done has ruined the earth, the atmosphere, the ground water - all natural systems.

 

And sure, we have full confidence that earth won't get ruined beyond repair, but definitely we can see how it is affecting our weather and climate systems!  I love when Lewis updates us with the information he has on this, but I don't understand much of the science.  Yet, we don't need to understand the science to appreciate how it's affecting mankind.

[Pjdriver]

First, I never said Global warming is not happening. It is.   Previously I even said it was just mankind ruining the earth. He is.

 

My main point is not that it is not true......but "Climate change" is not new. It’s been going on since Day One. It’s not unique to our time. While it causes problems...it is not the apocalypse as many make it out to be. 

 

7 hours ago, Just another lowly sheep said:

You need to adjust your viewpoint away from the question of “whether climate change is happening”, just realize & notice that WEATHER DISASTERS are increasing & worsening, on a GLOBAL SCALE, and RECORD HIGH TEMPERATURES are increasing year-over-year, for the last 10-years straight, and now in the 11th year 

 

According to an MIT climate scientist who believes in climate change;....it has been way overblown for political reasons....and has become almost like a religion for some.  The fact is,  the Climate has been changing for millions of years.

Whether it’s man made or natural, climate does change. It’s not unique to our day.  

 

Sea levels have been much higher in the past (as much as 12 feet) and has changed over time naturally. The planet is resilient. Jehovah will not let it be “ruined" physically.   Things are constantly changing so why so much panic?    Because many scientists and other activist need to push it with urgency for financial reasons.  Many don’t practice what the preach regarding “carbon footprints”.   Just sayin’.   

 

1.5 degrees change in temperature is  freaking everyone out.  I experience more change than that between breakfast and dinner. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Lewis said:

This Global Warming phenomenon has nothing to do with samples from millions of years ago or has any connection with the flood or some interpretation.

Carl, I was talking about, If they are comparing conditions in the past to conditions now,  they have to interpret the samples from the past. They don’t just put info into a computer, and  the truth comes out.  The results have to interpreted a person. 

 

This is a hot topic, no pun intended, so I’ll  let you all get back to it.  This is just my observation and opinion.  Sorry for the interruption.  

[Jimi-L]

It is so encouraging that even though this world is not only corrupted in spirit but also polluted and ruined in appearance and nature, we have all the more reason to be glad that Jehovah will stop this man-made climate change and the Earth will be restored to its original condition as He desired from the very beginning. (Rev. 11:18)

[Julsey]

16 hours ago, Pjdriver said:

According to an MIT climate scientist who believes in climate change;....it has been way overblown for political reasons....and has become almost like a religion for some.  The fact is,  the Climate has been changing for millions of years.

Whether it’s man made or natural, climate does change. It’s not unique to our day.  

 

Sea levels have been much higher in the past (as much as 12 feet) and has changed over time naturally. The planet is resilient. Jehovah will not let it be “ruined" physically.   Things are constantly changing so why so much panic?    Because many scientists and other activist need to push it with urgency for financial reasons.  Many don’t practice what the preach regarding “carbon footprints”.   Just sayin’.   

 

1.5 degrees change in temperature is  freaking everyone out.  I experience more change than that between breakfast and dinner. 

 

THANK YOU!

 

Some things no one ever mentions:

 

The amount of time humans have been keeping track of temperatures is minuscule in comparison to how long humans have been around.

 

In the 1970’s, the same experts predicted we were going to enter an ice age any day.

 

Does no one ever consider the effect that big ball of fire in the sky has on our weather???

 

https://www.almanac.com/does-sun-affect-our-weather-and-climate

 

If climate change is caused by people, then what causes the increase in volcanic and seismic activity? Please don’t say people.

 

And let’s not mention how the “experts” treat those who dissent. If they have to have someone canceled for a differing point of view - which they aim to do - they lose all credibility with me.

 

Alright, I’ll go away now.

 

[Just another lowly sheep]

2 hours ago, Julsey said:

THANK YOU!

 

Some things no one ever mentions:

 

The amount of time humans have been keeping track of temperatures is minuscule in comparison to how long humans have been around.

 

In the 1970’s, the same experts predicted we were going to enter an ice age any day.

 

Does no one ever consider the effect that big ball of fire in the sky has on our weather???

 

https://www.almanac.com/does-sun-affect-our-weather-and-climate

 

If climate change is caused by people, then what causes the increase in volcanic and seismic activity? Please don’t say people.

 

And let’s not mention how the “experts” treat those who dissent. If they have to have someone canceled for a differing point of view - which they aim to do - they lose all credibility with me.

 

Alright, I’ll go away now.

 

You won’t like my “opinion”, but you mentioned increased seismic activity.

Hear me out, please:

 

I actually DO believe humans are HUGELY responsible for this! The Bible foretold a CHANGE, “earthquakes in one place after another” at Mark 13:8, and “great earthquakes” at Luke 21:11. Would not be worth MENTIONING, unless this would be NOTABLY DIFFERENT in the stream of time.

 

Jehovah has always been able to FORESEE man’s future. What I “propose”, is that he KNEW, that WE would cause this increase. Imagine the BILLIONS of TONS of EARTH that is continually EXCAVATED, and MOVED, both in MINING operations globally, and in CONSTRUCTION of MASSiVE skyscrapers weighing untold trillions of TONS, in huge CITIES of MILLIONS of people. Not to mention MASSIVE global OIL DRILLING operations, and EXTRACTION of all manner of CARBON FUELS, coal, oil, natural gas, etc. And MINING for all manner of METALS, MINERALS, RARE-EARTH ELEMENTS and so on, all in the GLOBAL MANUFACTURING of BILLIONS of AUTOMOBILES and GOODS, and the TRANSPORT of GIGANTIC TONS of MASSIVE SHIPPING CONTAiNERS full of said-goods, across the world DAILY.

Earth’s population in 1914 was 1.7 billion people, we have now more than QUADRUPLED and almost QUINTUPLED population to 8.1 billion people in just 110 years. These HUMAN IMPACTS on the planet are UNPRECEDENTED in earth’s history.

Also, with massive changes due to warming oceans, which has MEASURABLY EXPANDED the VOLUME of earth’s now 352 TRILLION GALLONS of WATER in the oceans, and changing ocean currents; there is no telling what massive TIDAL FORCES could also be at work, as the earth spins at 1,000 miles per hour at the equator, the change in the “sloshing FORCE” of 352 TRILLION GALLONS of water, who KNOWS what IMPACT???

 

Even consider FORCES EXERTED every time ROCKETS are LAUNCHED with enough force to reach ESCAPE VELOCITY into SPACE. 
 

You see my point? Jehovah KNEW, that MAN would do ALL these things, in just the 110-year period SO-FAR, in “the last days”, and as many have already mentioned, STARTING back in the 1700’s with the INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION that has LED to ALL this MODERN UNPRECEDENTED IMPACT around the GLOBE.

 

So yes, even though YOU said “don’t say people” have increased seismic activity, it IS the MOST PLAUSIBLE EXPLANATION for the PROPHESIED INCREASE.

[Mrs.Blessed]

     I feel like some friends may be getting a bit side tracked on the politics and credibility of the science of climate change, while others are deeply concerned about the people being affected by it in real-time.

       People are experiencing dramatically different affects of climate change depending on where they live on the earth. The devestating repercussions are not evenly dispersed. In some regions climate change may be almost impercivable and of little consequence. While in places like India, Mexico, Australia and Southeast Asia (to name only a small few), people are literally dropping dead from heat, starvation and/or drought caused by climate change. (Not to mention worse tornadoes, hurricanes, floods and fire etc.)

       The original article shared, from jw.org, says "Because of the death and suffering climate change has caused, the World Health Organization has called it the “single biggest health threat facing humanity.”

https://www.jw.org/en/library/series/more-topics/climate-change-global-warming-bible/#p3

 

       I trust we all mean well and have the best of intentions...

and aren't trying to seem insensitive.

💞🫂🌏🫂💞

 

[Pjdriver]

I think regardless of what causes it, it’s no doubt multifaceted. But regardless....the fact is the earth’s climate has always fluctuated and sometimes this causes problems.  Even if man has contributed to it,....it’s still a normal cycle of changes.

 

While climate change may be causing problems, it is not nearly our greatest threat.  I’m always taken aback by the passion of the climate change crowd. Almost like armageddon itself.   I did get a kick out of the little swede girl Greta Thunberg. 

Edited June 7 by Pjdriver

[Just another lowly sheep]

2 hours ago, Pjdriver said:

I think regardless of what causes it, it’s no doubt multifaceted. But regardless....the fact is the earth’s climate has always fluctuated and sometimes this causes problems.  Even if man has contributed to it,....it’s still a normal cycle of changes.

 

While climate change may be causing problems, it is not nearly our greatest threat.  I’m always taken aback by the passion of the climate change crowd. Almost like armageddon itself.   I did get a kick out of the little swede girl Greta Thunberg. 

“in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires  and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as they were from creation’s beginning.” — 2 Peter 3:3, 4

 

The entire THEME of the Bible, is the issue of Sovereignty, and God allowing TIME to PROVE that man cannot GOVEEN themselves or MANAGE the EARTH successfully, thus the NEED for His Kingdom.

 

Sooner or later you’ll be forced to accept that ALL these problems are the FAULT of MAN.

 

Otherwise, it would be GOD’S FAULT that earth’s entire ecology is facing numerous destructive changes. 

 

The Bible provided SIGNS, so that ONLY those PAYING ATTENTION, and BELIEVING the Word of God, would recognize the SIGNIFICANCE of world events. Including the “ruining of the earth”.

 

Jehovah’s organization doesn’t put articles on JW.org without doing DEEP RESEARCH, they don’t BACK mere “political” views. 
 

Many people where I’M from, in our Special Metropolitan Witnessing, are RESPONDING to the Good News, SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE OUR PUBLICATIONS TEACH that the Bible foretold the destruction of earth’s ecology at Revelation 11:18, and, among other things, increasing weather disasters are convincing MANY right-hearted ones that we need God’s Kingdom. Don’t be a “ridiculer” and  “make fun”, of the SIGNS, and what the Faithful Slave TEACHES on our website that the WHOLE WORLD reads, and the BROTHERHOOD unitedly believes. Better to be silent, than to be found a “fighter against God himself” — Acts 5:39

[Lewis]

On 6/6/2024 at 9:38 PM, Julsey said:

If climate change is caused by people, then what causes the increase in volcanic and seismic activity? Please don’t say people.

 

The answer is simple, movement in the techtonic plates in the earth due to heat and energy that is there. The sun also sends heat and energy to earth and normally bounces back out into space but due to our Global Warming problem some of that heat gets trapped in our atmosphere (thats a problem) and this creates a feedback loop of issues on earth, like increase activity in volcanoes and earthquakes.

 

Essentially our pangs of distress of our weather system is due to too much heat or energy trapped on earth due to our greenhouse effect from Global Warming.

 

That heat that is trapped in our atmosphere can be measured, it’s known as the Global Net flux.