Peace and Security, Great Tribulation, Armageddon

[Áine]

I think that we also have to keep in our minds the thoughts of GB who have repeatedly mentioned about the events happening either… very quickly… simultaneously or actually practically at the same time..  as in P&S at the same time as the complete destruction of BTG , I’ve always thought that these two events are very closely linked.

 

 Would P&S be declared because BTG has gone and so no more wars started by religion … or BTG gone because they become a threat to their so called P&S

 

 time will tell 🙏

[Doug]

9 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

 I am guessing that the cry of P&S was made by those Jerusalem, but the Bible doesn't say. Who do you think made the cry?

 

I'm not aware there was a cry of P&S after the Roman army retreated.  Jerusalem was a complete mess and the retreat was like fanning the hot embers of the internal pressure cooker.

[IceBreeze]

4 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

I'm wondering what you are basing that on.

It was a question, not that I claim something.

This is what I asked;

 

With your question you seem to ask if the complete fulfillment, (the complete process) is going to be completed faster?

[IceBreeze]

8 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

I'm wondering what you are basing that on.

Maybe it's my translation. Sorry.

[LeolaRootStew]

4 minutes ago, Doug said:

 

I'm not aware there was a cry of P&S after the Roman army retreated.  Jerusalem was a complete mess and the retreat was like fanning the hot embers of the internal pressure cooker.

 

Well in order for the prophecy to be fulfilled there had to be a cry. How do you think it was fulfilled?

 

(oh and i edited my previous reply to add something if you don't mind looking back).

[Richie]

6 hours ago, Sofia said:

https://edition.cnn.com/weather/live-news/geomagnetic-solar-storm-northern-lights-05-10-24/h_41c2098e5ac5b6e2d571eabbc34dfc4b
 

Bellow photos taken in Portugal last night.

Though very beautiful these solar storms and magnetic field disturbance can create great havoc.

I can imagine during the GT this becoming very intense… no GPS signals… power plants down… communications down… the caos around the world at the same time.

 

There. Now I said it. 
This is in my opinion what maybe the fullfillment of Luke 21:25

Not only this is happening this year... Strange sound from outer space was heard and believed is coming from very far space. Other continent experienced full solar eclipse. Unfortunately, our ocean is roaring and agitated due to extreme heat and turned into devastating typhoons. Countries are facing in pacific oceans are faint out of fear because this ocean absord so much heat energy that may turn to super and mega typhoons. So we expect extra super and mega calamities on this period of the year. In Jehovah's help we can survive these upcoming threats. 

[Doug]

On 5/8/2024 at 4:00 PM, Tortuga said:

Exactly.

*** w19 October p. 15 par. 4 Stay Faithful Through the “Great Tribulation” ***
 It seems reasonable that this attack will not mean that all the members of those religions will be destroyed. Rather, it seems that the nations will get rid of the religious organizations. 

 

Could it be as simple as religion losing it's tax exempt status?    Religion revolts against.  BAM!   

 

The USA now has a $34 Trillion dollar debt and religions are pulling in tax-free money as they always have.

 

It could start here in the US and very quickly catch on globally.

[LeolaRootStew]

4 minutes ago, IceBreeze said:

It was a question, not that I claim something.

This is what I asked;

 

With your question you seem to ask if the complete fulfillment, (the complete process) is going to be completed faster?

 

ok, then no, i wasn't asking that. I was asking if we have any basis to claim that the modern fulfillment must happen in a very short time if our only frame of reference is that it took 4 years for it to be fulfilled the first time. To me, that would seem to indicate that it could take longer than we've been thinking.

[Richie]

16 minutes ago, blue-jay said:

I know. But I'm not talking about the speculations.

We believe that "peace & security" will be announced, or called for or whatever. And then right after that, Babylon the Great will be destroyed.

How exactly do we get to that believe?

Of course I read the study note, but that doesn't really explain it. I understand exactly what we believe, but can't explain it.  How do we get to that believe exactly?

In 1 Th 5:3, Babylon the Great isn't mentioned. It only says "they" "them". So how are we so convinced that BtG will be destroyed right after the pronouncement? 

I don't know how to explain it with scriptures. 

Can anyone help me please 🙏 

The same here. We try to figure out how the timeline made up. Unfortunately, we came up to different scenarios😂. I think your request is good in verbal conversation and only you with your very close friends are in delibeartion😁. 

[feebee]

Kingdom Rules chapter 21 - "In writing to the Thessalonians, the apostle Paul mentions "Jehovah's day" which will begin with the attack on "Babylon the Great". However, just before Jehovah's day begins, nations will be saying "Peace and Security"!" I'd be interested to see any references to a first century cry of peace and security, because I think that part was referring to our time not the first century. 

[computerwiz]

On 5/9/2024 at 6:08 PM, trottigy said:

Which is why I always thought it would be related to some major scientific discovery, like: free energy or major medical advance - maybe even something that dramatically increases life span or something.

 

Human greed won't allow that. People are getting worse, not better. Can count on greed continuing.

 

My bet is on new understanding of P&S. Not that there will be any achievement or even something close enough to say such, but rather a demand of P&S and the solution offered is to remove religion. Seems more likely with "white Christian nationalists" being a "threat to democracy" . 

 

I used to think getting Putin outta power could lead to it. But with the new drama with Israel...I'm back to my old idea of it being a demand. We'll see....

 

I mean really, the world is getting more chaotic by the day with all these war & climate protests....

[Firefly]

35 minutes ago, computerwiz said:

My bet is on new understanding of P&S. Not that there will be any achievement or even something close enough to say such, but rather a demand of P&S and the solution offered is to remove religion.

From Watchtower 81 11/15

ONLY A VENEER

19. What will the saying of “Peace and security!” not mean?

¹⁹ Of this we can be certain: The cry of “Peace and security!”—whatever form it takes—does not mean that the underlying condition of this world will have been reversed. Nor does it mean that the nations will disarm or give up their hostile attitudes. “‘There is no peace,’ my God has said, ‘for the wicked ones.’” (Isa. 57:21) It is just that, for the moment, world leaders, out of desperation or because of seeing some selfish advantage in pursuing some new policies, will cry “Peace and security!” in a more pronounced way than before.

[Firefly]

11 hours ago, blue-jay said:

OK, I have a question. 

In 1Thes 5:3, who is "they" and "them"?

Are they the same? How/why do we believe that?

Is the destruction the one of BtG? Are they then also the ones saying "p&s"?

I tried to explain it and got myself confused 😕 

 

Is the destruction it's talking about, the destruction of the whole system, not just BtG specifically?

Then why do we know that BtG is going down right after the proclamation? Because of the timeline in Revelation?

If there is an article logically explaining it, please guide me to it. 

The Watchtower of 1981 11/15 says the following.  It is from many years ago but seems to indicate that BtG will join in with the cry of P&S:

 

15. Who logically will be saying “Peace and security”?

¹⁵ Also, who are the “they” who say “Peace and security!” just before the end comes? It is unlikely that any part of this world could proclaim such a thing without the cooperation or direction of the major political powers. Hence, it appears that the rulers of the nations play a large part in the outworking of this prophecy. The United Nations organization, supposedly dedicated to peace, could also play a role. And what of the religious elements?

15. Who logically will be saying “Peace and security”?

¹⁵ Also, who are the “they” who say “Peace and security!” just before the end comes? It is unlikely that any part of this world could proclaim such a thing without the cooperation or direction of the major political powers. Hence, it appears that the rulers of the nations play a large part in the outworking of this prophecy. The United Nations organization, supposedly dedicated to peace, could also play a role. And what of the religious elements? Since they are so much a part of the world, ‘committing fornication with the kings of the earth,’ they likely will support or actively promote the efforts that the political powers make in this direction. In this they would be imitating the false prophets of ancient Judah who falsely declared: “Jehovah has spoken: ‘Peace is what you people will come to have.’” Instead, God was soon to bring calamity on them, as his true prophet Jeremiah foretold.—Jer. 23:16-22.

In this they would be imitating the false prophets of ancient Judah who falsely declared: “Jehovah has spoken: ‘Peace is what you people will come to have.’” Instead, God was soon to bring calamity on them, as his true prophet Jeremiah foretold.—Jer. 23:16-22.

[Doug]

28 minutes ago, Firefly said:

The Watchtower of 1981 11/15 says the following.  

15. Who logically will be saying “Peace and security”?

¹⁵  Hence, it appears that the rulers of the nations play a large part in the outworking of this prophecy. The United Nations organization, supposedly dedicated to peace, could also play a role. And what of the religious elements? Since they are so much a part of the world, ‘committing fornication with the kings of the earth,’ they likely will support or actively promote the efforts that the political powers make in this direction. 

 

Yep.   And then they make the classic mistake of taking more credit than they deserve.    Infuriating the politicians and diplomats.

[blue-jay]

1 hour ago, Richie said:

The same here. We try to figure out how the timeline made up. Unfortunately, we came up to different scenarios😂. I think your request is good in verbal conversation and only you with your very close friends are in delibeartion😁. 

Oh good. So I'm not the only one lol.

I thought I missed a big explanation somewhere...

 

So when it says "sudden destruction will overcome THEM", "them" is not just BtG but the whole system. It just starts with BtG. We know that because in Revelation the merchants and kings are still around to mourn her.

So who is the "THEY" that makes the announcement? 🤔 Maybe BtG together with the governments? And then the "kings" turn on her and destroy her. 

[Richie]

2 hours ago, blue-jay said:

Oh good. So I'm not the only one lol.

I thought I missed a big explanation somewhere...

 

So when it says "sudden destruction will overcome THEM", "them" is not just BtG but the whole system. It just starts with BtG. We know that because in Revelation the merchants and kings are still around to mourn her.

So who is the "THEY" that makes the announcement? 🤔 Maybe BtG together with the governments? And then the "kings" turn on her and destroy her. 

I highly appreciate this word from bro. Winder at 2024 Annual Meeting. Please have a look... 

 

World events might put the spotlight on a particular prophecy than then gets closer attention... 

... 

...as we progress deeper into the time of the end,...as we draw closer to the great tribulation...we can be confident that Jehovah God, our God, will continue to loyally provide us with the direction and the understand that we need.

 

The fullness of our understanding will transpire when the world events will put into the spotlight. Those taking the lead do not hesitate to make the necessary changes if needed. 

[vern]

They.....

 

They could be demons... But they arent destroyed yet.

 

BtG is an idea but they can.t declare a peace that would effect world governments.

 

Leaves the beasts.

 

"They" could be inclusive.  BfG first then the beasts.

 

I did my own reading of Pauls letter and there was no context to his saying They that i remember.

 

Paul talked about Jews. False brothers. Man of lawlessness.

 

Ones that have the most guilt were the false Jews that knowingly got Jesus killed.

Romans didn.t really wont to but was pressured into it.

 

"They" could be all the shadow conspiracy persons we don.t know about.

 

I have this pet idea about those that killed Jesus are still generationally present today and They will be destroyed because they are working with the devil.to do all the weird things making this world worthy of judgement.

 

Either way "they" will declare there peace and not honor Jehovah with letting hin bring in His peace thats good for everyone.

 

 

 

 

 

[Richie]

A prominent american Christian Evangelist pastor named John Hagee said, "Without jewish contribution to the Christianity there would be no Christianity..." He encouraged the american audience to oppose US withdrawal of military aid support to Israel and show gratitude to what Israel contributed to American heritage.

 

It looks like Christian Evangelists are so deeply attached to Israel on which attack to Israel is also attack to Christianity. Recently, UNGA remarkably voted decision that trampled Israel to shame. 

Sound interesting!!! 

[JennyM]

Ukraine peace talk is underway in Switzerland this June. They plan it to turn into global peace. 

Exciting times but we still have to go through the great tribulation. 

[Abigail]

15 hours ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

Well in order for the prophecy to be fulfilled there had to be a cry. How do you think it was fulfilled?

 

(oh and i edited my previous reply to add something if you don't mind looking back).

 

Inititially there was euphoria in 66CE by the jews in jerusalem.

 

Watch this talk from the AM 2022. Particularly the video from 9 minutes on.

 

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/VODPgmEvtAnnMtg/pub-jwb-100_2_VIDEO

 

Edited May 12 by Abigail

[Abigail]

Screenshots from above video, hope allowed.

[LeolaRootStew]

24 minutes ago, Abigail said:

 

Inititially there was euphoria in 66CE by the jews in jerusalem.

 

Watch this talk from the AM 2022. Particularly the video from 9 minutes on.

 

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/VODPgmEvtAnnMtg/pub-jwb-100_2_VIDEO

 

 

I know, I was responding to Doug who said:

 

15 hours ago, Doug said:

 

I'm not aware there was a cry of P&S after the Roman army retreated.  Jerusalem was a complete mess and the retreat was like fanning the hot embers of the internal pressure cooker.

 

[Dages]

4 hours ago, Richie said:

A prominent american Christian Evangelist pastor named John Hagee said, "Without jewish contribution to the Christianity there would be no Christianity..." He encouraged the american audience to oppose US withdrawal of military aid support to Israel and show gratitude to what Israel contributed to American heritage.

 

It looks like Christian Evangelists are so deeply attached to Israel on which attack to Israel is also attack to Christianity. Recently, UNGA remarkably voted decision that trampled Israel to shame. 

Sound interesting!!! 

People will get more and more angry at these awful fans of the fake Israel we have now.

More disgust for religion.

The GT is close

[Abigail]

20 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

I know, I was responding to Doug who said:

 

 

I thought you also wanted evidence that there was a cry of peace in Jerusalem in 66 CE? That's it.

[Richie]

15 minutes ago, Dages said:

People will get more and more angry at these awful fans of the fake Israel we have now.

More disgust for religion.

The GT is close

One day we'll see the attack and we will shout for a joyful cry, Hallelujah!!!