Peace and Security, Great Tribulation, Armageddon

[Richie]

31 minutes ago, Sofia said:

Maybe it happens when they are together celebrating the memorial, as the anniversary day goes around the world 🤔 ?? In a future year to come 😊

Or maybe they will receive it progressively until all sealed.

[Doug]

3 hours ago, truce said:

My opinion: there is absolutely no need to be calculating the specifics of this generation (when, how, time frame, how long a generation could be, how long the generation that Jesus spoke about would last, 1992, etc). It is going beyond the things that are written.  Let's stay awake and keep our senses and stop the mathematical brouhaha, please?

"Going beyond the things that are written"?    But, it is also written.  And the GB went into detail so as to explain it to us.

 

Some of Br. Splane's comments:  "I'd like to discuss how Jesus words at Mt. 24:34 has a bearing on the nearness of the end of this system of things.

                                                         "So, the generation will not pass away until the great tribulation                                                               occurs. Now that is  interesting. That is relevant to us".

                                                         "But we have to know, which particular generation was Jesus                                                                 talking about"?

                                                         "Are you beginning to see how this all connects with the                                                                        urgency of our times"?

                                                         "Now those of the second group of the generation are getting                                                                 older. Some of us are showing our age.

 

And Br. Flodin:  "We immediately think back to the September 2015 JW Broadcasting edition.  Br. Splane masterfully explained".

"And consider this significant point.  There is nothing, nothing, in Jesus prophesy that suggests those of the second group , alive at the time of the end, would all be old, decrepit and close to death.  There's no reference to age".

Edited December 12, 2023 by Doug

[truce]

46 minutes ago, Sofia said:

I would go further and dare to say that Jesus also told us to pay attention to Daniel Prophecy.

GT is described in Daniel 12:1

We are seeing in front of our eye the last part of chapter 11 on the news.

obly a few details left unfulfilled.

This is enough for my faith 💖🙏

Exactly so. What we see on the world scene is enough to make us know where we are in the stream of time.

[JennyM]

Time runs so fast. Maybe calculating the time is human nature. Isaac Newton calculated when the time ends. 

There's a reason why we dont know the date and hour, Satan will have the reason to question our motive in serving Jehovah.  

 

This system is horrible for me. Its indescribable.  I also dont understand the apathy and arrogance of people on spiritual matters. 

 

Ive experienced many injustice in life and the world is full of injustice as a whole. The present life puts limit on what I want to do and what I can do. 

 

But when getting busy on spiritual things and praying constantly , time is so quick that you realize how much reduced time you have on earth. 

 

We are glad that Jehovah fills us with joy through activities  and hope for the future. 

 

 

[truce]

20 minutes ago, Doug said:

"Going beyond the things that are written"?    But, it is also written.  And the GB went into detail so as to explain it to us.

 

Some of Br. Splane's comments:  "I'd like to discuss how Jesus words at Mt. 24:34 has a bearing on the nearness of the end of this system of things.

                                                         "So, the generation will not pass away until the great tribulation                                                               occurs. Now that is  interesting. That is relevant to us".

                                                         "But we have to know, which particular generation was Jesus                                                                 talking about"?

                                                         "Are you beginning to see how this all connects with the                                                                        urgency of our times"?

                                                         "Now those of the second group of the generation are getting                                                                 older. Some of us are showing our age.

 

And Br. Flodin:  "We immediately think back to the September 2015 JW Broadcasting edition.  Br. Splane masterfully explained".

"And consider this significant point.  There is nothing, nothing, in Jesus prophesy that suggests those of the second group , alive at the time of the end, would all be old, decrepit and close to death.  There's no reference to age".

Quiz: How would you explain the meaning of "this generation" to someone in the ministry?

 

Tip: Do so without making reference to Frederick Franz and 1992.

Edited December 12, 2023 by truce
Clarification

[Doug]

3 minutes ago, truce said:

How would you explain the meaning of "this generation" to someone in the ministry? Would you bring out a chart with all the timelines revolving around when Frederick Franz was born and baptized and anointed and who alive now was anointed before Frederick Franz died in 1992? 

 

Depending on their level of understanding spiritual things.  I would probably start with an explanation of Mt 24:45 and how Jehovah feeds us spiritually at the right time.

 

Once that is understood, any topic can be explained with the Bible and the published, current understanding.

 

Jesus used illustrations that were visual.  "Now learn this illustration from the fig tree:  Just as soon as its young branch grows tender and sprouts its leaves, you know that summer is near".

 

Today, we would use charts, statistics or any other device the FDS feels would help.  To re-quote Br Splane, "Are you beginning to see how all this connects with the urgency of our times"???   

 

Solid food belongs to mature people, to those who have their perceptive powers trained.

[GeordieGirl]

2 hours ago, Sofia said:

According to acts chapter 2 when the 120 disciples received the Holy Spirit, all of them knew the rest 119 also had it because it was something visible for them.

At the same way, I believe the anointed may know when the final

sealing comes to every member of that class.

But this is just my thought.

 

I have wondered if this doesn't apply only to their sealing.  I have always thought that there must be some aspect whereby they recognise others that are of the anointed, too. 

As has been pointed out to us by the slave, members of the other sheep can be just as spiritually motivated and have just as much knowledge and the anointed have no more holy spirit than members of the earthly class. 

So surely just saying 'yes, I'm anointed' cannot be enough to be accepted as one of the Governing Body. There must be something whereby they recognise one another as being of that class. 

Just my ponderings.

[MChill14]

3 hours ago, GeordieGirl said:

 

I have wondered if this doesn't apply only to their sealing.  I have always thought that there must be some aspect whereby they recognise others that are of the anointed, too. 

As has been pointed out to us by the slave, members of the other sheep can be just as spiritually motivated and have just as much knowledge and the anointed have no more holy spirit than members of the earthly class. 

So surely just saying 'yes, I'm anointed' cannot be enough to be accepted as one of the Governing Body. There must be something whereby they recognise one another as being of that class. 

Just my ponderings.

Don’t quote me on this, but all of the current GB members have served in special full time service?

[Richie]

2 hours ago, MChill14 said:

Don’t quote me on this, but all of the current GB members have served in special full time service?

Yes they are. They are levitical class serving in spiritual temple. The old levitical set up is the reflection of today's arrangement. 

[truce]

6 hours ago, Doug said:

 

Depending on their level of understanding spiritual things.  I would probably start with an explanation of Mt 24:45 and how Jehovah feeds us spiritually at the right time.

 

Once that is understood, any topic can be explained with the Bible and the published, current understanding.

 

Jesus used illustrations that were visual.  "Now learn this illustration from the fig tree:  Just as soon as its young branch grows tender and sprouts its leaves, you know that summer is near".

 

Today, we would use charts, statistics or any other device the FDS feels would help.  To re-quote Br Splane, "Are you beginning to see how all this connects with the urgency of our times"???   

 

Solid food belongs to mature people, to those who have their perceptive powers trained.

The people out there in the Ministry have no idea who Brother Splane or Brother Franz is. And no, there is no connection between the life and times (and anointing) of Brother Franz and the nearness of the end. Whenever Frederick Franz was born or baptized or anointed has no scriptural bearing on how close we are to the end. For emphasis, I ask again: "How would you explain 'this generation' to someone in the ministry?" Do so without making reference to Frederick Franz and 1992)

Edited December 12, 2023 by truce

[Richie]

9 hours ago, Osprey said:

 

How would they know that? Feel that the same way as they feel that they are anointed? Just know that they have been sealed?

 

[Kwabena]

54 minutes ago, truce said:

Do so without making reference to Frederick Franz and 1992

Br. Splane was very careful about his words when he was talking about that subject. He always used the phrase "For the sake of argument" when talking about Br. Franz. 

 

Basically what he was saying was, "the generation"(that is,  anointed people who were alive at 1914 together with their anointed contemporaries) are decreasing in number at an alarming rate. This means we are very very close to our salvation. This is because our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ said that those people will not pass away until we are saved. Br. Franz was just being used as an example. 

 

Again, "for the sake of argument".

[Dhanyel]

There is no hiding from mathematics, it is present in everything 😀

[LeolaRootStew]

4 hours ago, truce said:

"How would you explain 'this generation' to someone in the ministry?" 

I wouldn't. No householder is going to ask such a ridiculously specific question.

[johnnyjw01]

The “generation” is not the principal aspect of our faith. It’s not one of the basic truths that we teach in the ministry and if in the future the understanding might change our faith wouldn’t be shaken.

[johnnyjw01]

But Jesus said these words and the slave tries to give it a meaning based on world events, always keeping in mind the general rule that we will fully understand a prophecy probably after its fulfillment… The slave has the responsibility to keep us vigilant and not saying “my master is delaying”

Edited December 12, 2023 by johnnyjw01

[Landon1285]

5 hours ago, truce said:

The people out there in the Ministry have no idea who Brother Splane or Brother Franz is. And no, there is no connection between the life and times (and anointing) of Brother Franz and the nearness of the end. Whenever Frederick Franz was born or baptized or anointed has no scriptural bearing on how close we are to the end. For emphasis, I ask again: "How would you explain 'this generation' to someone in the ministry?" Do so without making reference to Frederick Franz and 1992)

I can see what you mean. I'm in no way saying that this is a new understanding but just something I've considered personally. Since the lords day all anointed are brought to heavenly life in the twinkling of an eye. So they are all still living (pass away scriptually still means death but as a human). This generation then to me means the generation of anointed ones since the lords day to our time now and of course into the great tribulation. Basically the overlap and the prophecy are meant to assure Jehovah’s people that there will be anointed ones on the planet until all those things are fulfilled in Matthew 24. The great crowd will not be abandoned. 

[truce]

3 hours ago, LeolaRootStew said:

I wouldn't. No householder is going to ask such a ridiculously specific question.

You'd be surprised.

[Lori]

On 7/23/2023 at 5:24 AM, Dages said:

Me: Good, I'm not here for good news  

I laughed too hard at this comment.    😂

[Doug]

1 hour ago, truce said:

You'd be surprised.

 

As someone who has been asked the meaning of "this generation", how do you answer?

[trottigy]

33 minutes ago, Doug said:

 

As someone who has been asked the meaning of "this generation", how do you answer?

 

I take them to our webiste wol.jw.org and look for the purple book we studied titled "God's Kingdom Rules!" and take them to Chapter 1 page 12 and show them this picture. Then I expalin this is how we undestand this to mean - would you like to review this first chapter with me?

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102014240#h=19

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT - from paragraph 18:

 

Quote

How, then, may we understand Jesus’ words about “this generation”? The generation consists of two overlapping groups of anointed ones—the first is made up of anointed ones who saw the beginning of the fulfillment of the sign in 1914 and the second, anointed ones who for a time were contemporaries of the first group. At least some of those in the second group will live to see the beginning of the coming tribulation. The two groups form one generation because their lives as anointed Christians overlapped for a time.c

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by trottigy

[Miss Bea]

The CO helped us to understand. We present a simple message, and depending on the response to that initial call, we continue to call. Or not!

If we can’t see evidence of Jehovah drawing them, we move on.
Short, sweet and simple. 

[Jimi-L]

19 hours ago, Richie said:

Absolutely, all GBs know they receive their final sealing. Once they receive it they will inform us the proximity of time remaining until GT. They and the Master are so happy of this final seal. 

I doubt that this would happen. Most of the anointed do not belong to the GB. They probably would like to make sure for the rest of the anointed ones as well.  People's subjective feelings tends to be too unreliable as a measure with such a small sample as the GB. The concept is also contradicted by the fact that no one but the Father knows when Jehovah's day is (Matthew 24:36) Besides. these events are supposed to overlap so much i doubt there would be no time left for an additional announcement.

 

No, i very much fear that we will have to wait for the fall of the Babylon the great.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Jimi-L

[Richie]

1 hour ago, Jimi-L said:

I doubt that this would happen. Most of the anointed do not belong to the GB. They probably would like to make sure for the rest of the anointed ones as well.  People's subjective feelings tends to be too unreliable as a measure with such a small sample as the GB. The concept is also contradicted by the fact that no one but the Father knows when Jehovah's day is (Matthew 24:36) Besides. these events are supposed to overlap so much i doubt there would be no time left for an additional announcement.

 

No, i very much fear that we will have to wait for the fall of the Babylon the great.

All GBs will know if the final sealing is on the way because they are sure with their hope. Nobody knows when the Armageddon will start but at least we can assess the proximity of the time left from GT. If we can assess this, GBs know it more than us. 

[bagwell1987]

2 hours ago, trottigy said:

 

I take them to our webiste wol.jw.org and look for the purple book we studied titled "God's Kingdom Rules!" and take them to Chapter 1 page 12 and show them this picture. Then I expalin this is how we undestand this to mean - would you like to review this first chapter with me?

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102014240#h=19

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT - from paragraph 18:

 

 

This is a concise summary, my favorite.