2023 Governing Body Update #8 / BEARDS!!!

[DancesWithWife]

1 hour ago, Tortuga said:

true, but when was that originally recorded?

The direction was clear brothers can wear beards and yet we debate about whether a brother, a member of the governing body has one or not. I sometimes shave my head other times let it grow. Same with my mustache. The direction says it’s our personal choice. This debate about proving a picture is real or not about facial hair is getting ludicrous. I enjoy a healthy discussion but this is not productive just argumentative.

 

[Tortuga]

10 minutes ago, DancesWithWife said:

The direction was clear brothers can wear beards and yet we debate about whether a brother, a member of the governing body has one or not. I sometimes shave my head other times let it grow. Same with my mustache. The direction says it’s our personal choice. This debate about proving a picture is real or not about facial hair is getting ludicrous. I enjoy a healthy discussion but this is not productive just argumentative.

 

I asked a simple question for clarification. Sometimes a question is just a question. 

I have barely participated in this topic, and I get lectured for one question?

Sheeesshhh..

Edited January 20 by Tortuga

[DancesWithWife]

6 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

and I get lectured for one question?

I’m sorry it was not directed at you. It’s just this debate about whether a person has it or not. I should have clarified better. I am sorry Richard.

[Prism]

I think GB Update #8 has affected Google trends data, look at the spike in popularity of beards as a topic on December 15, 2023 (the day the update was published). 

[Pjdriver]

8 hours ago, DancesWithWife said:

I’m sorry it was not directed at you. It’s just this debate about whether a person has it or not. I should have clarified better. I am sorry Richard.

Gregg, it’s not a debate. We are not presenting evidence back and forth with different moral views.  It’s simply about whether a photo is legit or faked. No one is saying it’s fake, but just questioning it. We are bombarded with misinformation, photoshopped pics and hoaxes all the time, in this country at least. 

 

I think questioning a photo that we are not sure where it came from is wise.  If someone here says; they have first hand knowledge, I can accept that.....but if not, I think it’s reasonable not to accept things at face value. This not a reason to be that upset. Trying to get verification is not the same as saying a person is lying. 

 

 

 

[LeolaRootStew]

1 hour ago, Pjdriver said:

Trying to get verification is not the same as saying a person is lying. 

 

Yes, but acting like the outcome is at all important is a little odd.

 

If the picture were of the same brother holding a Disney-themed object or a Christmas ornament, then I could see the need to state multiple times that we don't know if this is real or not, and not to jump to conclusions.

 

But a brother deciding to grow his beard? That's not a moral issue - but some are acting like it would be slander to say it's real without "solid proof" and they have to "defend his honor".

 

It's not a crime. It's not a sin. This feels overblown.

 

Anyhoo, anyone remember this?

Quote

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-dress-became-an-illusion-unlike-any-other/

 

 

Edited January 20 by LeolaRootStew

[Dolce vita]

9 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

Oui, mais agir comme si le résultat était important est un peu étrange.

 

Si la photo représentait le même frère tenant un objet sur le thème de Disney ou une décoration de Noël, alors je pourrais voir la nécessité de répéter à plusieurs reprises que nous ne savons pas si cela est réel ou non, et de ne pas tirer de conclusions hâtives.

 

Mais un frère qui décide de se laisser pousser la barbe ? Ce n’est pas une question morale – mais certains agissent comme si ce serait une calomnie de dire que c’est réel sans « preuve solide ».

 

Ce n'est pas un crime. Ce n'est pas un péché. Cela semble exagéré.

 

Quoi qu'il en soit, quelqu'un s'en souvient ?

 

 

Yes Justinah, I remember it very well, gold and white for me. This is a very relevant example because it teaches us that it is sometimes vain to discuss a point which cannot be demonstrated or which is so subjective that reason cannot decide in favor of one version or another. I cannot say here that the dress is blue since I see it white and gold. I just have to admit that there are many ways to look at it, and all of them may be right ❤️

[Eejay]

10 hours ago, DancesWithWife said:

The direction was clear brothers can wear beards and yet we debate about whether a brother, a member of the governing body has one or not.

 

An interesting aspect for me in all this is the sudden appearance of beards on those who are quite promininent, either locally or even internationally (if we can trust these pictures).

 

I wouldn't have thought many of those beards were appearing on a sudden whim, but that many of those brothers had refrained from wearing beards because they felt that was the theocratic direction at the time. All credit to those who displayed the right attituded at the time!

Edited January 20 by Eejay

[Pjdriver]

39 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

Yes, but acting like the outcome is at all important is a little odd.

 

If the picture were of the same brother holding a Disney-themed object or a Christmas ornament, then I could see the need to state multiple times that we don't know if this is real or not, and not to jump to conclusions.

 

But a brother deciding to grow his beard? That's not a moral issue - but some are acting like it would be slander to say it's real without "solid proof" and they have to "defend his honor".

 

It's not a crime. It's not a sin. This feels overblown.

 

I’m sorry Justinah, I didn’t get that vibe at all. Maybe it’s a matter of perspective. I don’t think anyone even said it was a fake, did they?  Just before that pic was posted someone posted a fake watchtower with a bearded man on the cover etc...  It’s very easy and people like to joke around.

 

I myself didn’t notice anyone saying they knew first hand....so I naturally questioned it, even though  I actually wanted it to be true. I don’t recall anyone accusing anyone of lies and slander.....whoa.

 

Even Thomas wanted proof after his close friends told him about Jesus. His friends may have gotten upset, we don’t know, but Jesus didn’t,.... he gave him the confirmation he asked for.   

 

 

[Pjdriver]

Here’s a question: Jehovah created Adam as an adult. Did he create him with a beard or did Adam grow one later? 

[LeolaRootStew]

9 minutes ago, Pjdriver said:

Here’s a question: Jehovah created Adam as an adult. Did he create him with a beard or did Adam grow one later? 

 

If God did create Adam without a beard so it could grow in, then he would probably have done the same for ALL of his body hair.

 

Don't imagine it too hard, though.

 

[Pjdriver]

5 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

If God did create Adam without a beard so it could grow in, then he would probably have done the same for ALL of his body hair.

 

Don't imagine it too hard, though.

 

So if that’s true; there’s only ever been 2 perfect men....and they both had beards.      

[Andrey]

For that matter, the year before, during the London, England, convention of May 25-31, 1926, Brother Rutherford spoke from the platform while attired in a business suit, instead of the formal black frock coat that had long been worn by public speakers among Jehovah’s Christian witnesses. (yb75 pp. 109-183, Part 2—United States of Americ, 1975 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses p. 148, https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/301975003) What color was Brother Rutherford's suit? If my memory serves me correctly, the suit was brightly colored. Thus, he changed the stereotype in clothing.

Edited January 20 by Andrey

[Timl1980]

29 minutes ago, Pjdriver said:

So if that’s true; there’s only ever been 2 perfect men....and they both had beards.    

 

So, at this point...why does it matter? Bearded or not...reality or not...does it truly matter?

 

 Whether a brother or sister has made it up in their head...or whether it's reality...does it really matter?

 

Beards are okay...just as beardless faces are okay...and at the end of the day...only Satan gains by us being willing to exploit and destroy one of our own, whether it's via dissent...or agreement.

 

We all sit back and talk about the various aspects and situations presented by such an arrangement...but do we ever sit back and appreciate the simple fact that we have the ability to be part of an arrangement that gives US the choice?? 

 

If not, then I entreat each of you to do so...because it's amazing and beautiful to have the real choice to be a part of this...and I thank Jehovah that I have brothers and sisters who can see through all the crap Satan and his system offers ...and see...that this is where they belong.

 

So do I...my dear friends...so do I!!

 

May we never forget that...bearded or not!!

 

 

[Mike047]

8 minutes ago, Timl1980 said:

We all sit back and talk about the various aspects and situations presented by such an arrangement...but do we ever sit back and appreciate the simple fact that we have the ability to be part of an arrangement that gives US the choice?? 

 

So Tim, do you mean there is only the choice if you live in the United States (US)?

[Timl1980]

7 minutes ago, Mike047 said:

So Tim, do you mean there is only the choice if you live in the United States (US)?

 

I don't know how you came to that conclusion, my brother...especially based off what I said. But the truth is...Jehovah can recognize you...beardless or beard bountiful...and no matter which route you choose...you will be acceptable...provided you are living up to the standards Jehovah has set into place. 

 

If not...shall we go back and ask the Israelites who followed Aaron and who chose the idol "mysteriously" made out of gold...whether a beard made a bit of a difference if Jehovah found their worship acceptable to him or not?

 

Jehovah cares about obedience...even demons can acknowledge he is right...but can they be obedient?

 

Of course not...so show me bearded folk...or beardless folk...and my question will be the same...are they obedient to Jehovah?

 

If so...HOORAH!!!...if not...too bad, so sad...I'm going the opposite direction.

 

 

[coolbrz731]

24 minutes ago, Mike047 said:

So Tim, do you mean there is only the choice if you live in the United States (US)?

 

6 minutes ago, Timl1980 said:

I don't know how you came to that conclusion, my brother

US(You and me)  US(Country), I admit, I thought you were talking about the U.S. at first, but, I read it again and went.  OOOOHHHHHH....  You and me.... Sometimes english can be so confusing.

[Timl1980]

29 minutes ago, Mike047 said:

So Tim, do you mean there is only the choice if you live in the United States (US)?

 

Of course, I meant the whole association of brothers...but that comes from having dealt with brothers and sisters from all countries.

 

I don't think in terms of borders...I cannot...for Jehovah does not recognize such. I have attended a meeting in Ukraine English...several of them...before Putin attacked. My wife knows several of these dear brothers and sisters in real life...as personal friends.

 

I know you jest...but I cannot in this situation...for I have heard firsthand how our dear brothers and sisters have withstood everything Satan has hurled at them...and how they have come through.

 

I heard how, firsthand, a few sisters were in a clearing...trying to take cover in a burned-out building...and starving.

 

They prayed to Jehovah...and believe it or not...a literal Goose dropped out of the sky and landed right amongst them...and after a little bit...they overcame their fear...killed it...and ate.

 

I have seen and heard...firsthand...how Jehovah can and will provide for us.

 

He knows each of us...and he understands what each of us will have to endure. This is why I stated...with absolute certainty...what I have said. I can only pray that Jehovah continues to identify us by our deliberate choices towards those who have nothing to offer in return...and who need our help more than ever...while hope still exists!

 

[Midwest-US]

[Pjdriver]

19 hours ago, Andrey said:

What color was Brother Rutherford's suit? If my memory serves me correctly, the suit was brightly colored. Thus, he changed the stereotype in clothing.

That’s funny because Brother Rutherford also is the one that put the kibosh on beards. 

[jwnate]

20 hours ago, Andrey said:

For that matter, the year before, during the London, England, convention of May 25-31, 1926, Brother Rutherford spoke from the platform while attired in a business suit, instead of the formal black frock coat that had long been worn by public speakers among Jehovah’s Christian witnesses. (yb75 pp. 109-183, Part 2—United States of Americ, 1975 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses p. 148, https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/301975003) What color was Brother Rutherford's suit? If my memory serves me correctly, the suit was brightly colored. Thus, he changed the stereotype in clothing.

Interesting, thank you! 

[Hope]

3 hours ago, Pjdriver said:

That’s funny because Brother Rutherford also is the one that put the kibosh on beards. 

 

...and music/singing at meetings.   That was brought back quickly after he died, however.

[truce]

5 hours ago, Pjdriver said:

That’s funny because Brother Rutherford also is the one that put the kibosh on beards. 

Rutherford was a bit weird. He made the brothers at Germany Bethel shave. He stopped the singing at meetings. He was a force to be reckoned with, described as brute, brusque and no-nonsense. To his credit though, the preaching work gained momentum as more emphasis was placed on every publisher giving a witness during his time. 

[dove]

1 hour ago, Hope said:

 

...and music/singing at meetings.   That was brought back quickly after he died, however.

I don’t remember how we used to always sing sitting down. And then it was said that we should stand up when we sing, because singing was a form of praise, prayer to Jehovah.

[Eejay]

1 hour ago, Hope said:

and music/singing at meetings.

He was likely clearing out all the churchy, creature-worshipping cobwebs! There is always a risk of babies in bathtubs when fired up with zeal! 😊