Urgent - NWS Remove Personal Data

[AndyCase]

All

 

We have just started using NWS with the approval of almost all the body of elders.

 

One elder has now asked us to remove his details and those of his children from NWS if we are using the Shared feature, which we are. As you can imagine, removing details means that it makes it very hard to schedule CLAM, Duties, has their Emergency Contacts, Reserve Carts etc etc

 

But he is dead set against the use of software, and thats his choice. 

 

I have noticed the feature to Disable App Access and Remove Personal Data. Do you know if we use this for them, will their names still appear on peoples apps? I want to be able to schedule them for talks, duties etc without having to export a finished schedule and start manually inserting names, leaving blanks

 

I thought using this feature would mean that they would not appear on the app, as Name is still Personal Information

 

Any ideas what i can do? We were just about to go live with the software and pay for the Gold package, and then happened. I need to action their request quickly, or at least ask him to consider alternative arrangements such as the Remove Personal Data feature

[Sooner Guy 89]

Other than disabling the app not sure what can be done to remove his name from the schedule. While it is certainly his decision to use the app personally, if the BOE has agreed to use it for scheduling purposes, is it possible for this brother to yield to the majority, since it doesn't need to be unanimous (Phil 2:4). And is it not the same information on the info board?

 

We had one brother with deep seated concerns, so he refused to use the app and we disabled it for him and his wife. He also asked for his 'Congregation Person' record to be deleted by our branch office which we could not do. After a few months he decided to use the app and that was the end of that.

[AndyCase]

Just now, Sooner Guy 89 said:

Other than disabling the app not sure what can be done to remove his name from the schedule. While it is certainly his decision to use the app personally, if the BOE has agreed to use it for scheduling purposes, is it possible for this brother to yield to the majority, since it doesn't need to be unanimous (Phil 2:4). And is it not the same information on the info board?

 

We had one brother with deep seated concerns, so he refused to use the app and we disabled it for him and his wife. He also asked for his 'Congregation Person' record to be deleted by our branch office which we could not do. After a few months he decided to use the app and that was the end of that.

He unfortunately kicked against it from the start. We was using Hourglass which he didn't use, and we have swapped due to GDPR concerns etc.

Hours of research later, all the body is happy with NWS. He has agreed not to speak negatively to the congregation about it, but he doesn't want to be on there. 

It's so frustrating as all the research on GDPR, NWS, Servers etc shows it's perfectly safe, secure and acceptable to sfl book etc.

 

The only other thing I thought of was deleting all info except perhaps his Initials? Or just First Name? 

That way he can be scheduled, the body and servants can see him on the CLAM Schedule, PT Schedule etc, but anyone outside wouldn't know him at all. 

 

Not sure he will go for it as he is being quite stubborn for no reason. But, "clothe yourselves with love" etc. 

[Sooner Guy 89]

Yep, that is all you can do. Maybe use a numeric code with initials. Or the Borg from Startrek names: 7 of 9 🙃

[Tortuga]

The Unknown Elder family...

[BLEmom]

I’m betting there is more going on under the surface than an issue with the app 

2 hours ago, Sooner Guy 89 said:

Yep, that is all you can do. Maybe use a numeric code with initials. Or the Borg from Startrek names: 7 of 9 🙃

I like that idea!  But that was my favorite Star Trek series. 😁

[carlos]

One option would be to keep just their first names. Would they agree to that? Bob or Mary are not any identifiable personal information in case someone obtained the data from NWS.

 

Or you might not give them any assignments for a while to help them think twice.

[AndyCase]

6 minutes ago, carlos said:

One option would be to keep just their first names. Would they agree to that? Bob or Mary are not any identifiable personal information in case someone obtained the data from NWS.

 

Or you might not give them any assignments for a while to help them think twice.

I agree.

First names or initials only. I will be broaching the subject after this weekend (it's our convention).

I won't lie, there is a small part of me that wants to withold assignments....but I suppose being part of the congregation shouldn't depend on what software we use. (But that little naughty part of me is tempting) 😇😂

[Amygdala]

12 hours ago, BLEmom said:

I’m betting there is more going on under the surface than an issue with the app 

 

Not necessarily. I know some elders who prefer not to have their info on any shared apps, especially since the data laws were enacted here in Europe. But as already mentioned, there are ways to get around it. Even for that person to set up a separate phone specifically for the congregation. Or as mentioned by the others, to use a different name, or number. No one should be questioned about their spirituality if their conscience doesn‘t want to have their personal info out there. Yes, it is limiting, especially if they want to join theocratic projects on jwhub, but no doubt they realize that. Plus some may reconsider after some time, when dealt with lovingly. 

[carlos]

Andy, might the brother change his mind if you discussed this with your CO?

 

In our congregation some elders were a bit hesitant to adopt the app. So we asked the CO and he said he cannot recommend any specific software, but many congregations are using NW Scheduler and it saves a lot of work. He specifically mentioned the branch doesn't disapprove of it, it depends just on the body of elders. That dispelled their hesitation.

[Amygdala]

59 minutes ago, AndyCase said:

there is a small part of me that wants to withold assignments

 

I know it‘s a joke 😉, but I like these comments from this article below. 

 

*** w88 10/1 p. 16 par. 6 “Keep Holding Men of That Sort Dear” ***
6 Elders should be particularly careful not to make disparaging remarks about fellow overseers. No one elder has all the Christian qualities to the supreme degree, for all are imperfect. Some excel in certain qualities, but they are weaker in others. If elders have proper brotherly love and tender affection for one another, they will play down the weaknesses of one another. In their conversations with the brothers, they will point up their fellow elders’ strong points. By thus taking the lead in showing honor to one another, they will heighten the congregation’s confidence in the body of elders as a whole.
https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=1988724&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=9

[BLEmom]

2 hours ago, Amygdala said:

 

Not necessarily. I know some elders who prefer not to have their info on any shared apps, especially since the data laws were enacted here in Europe. But as already mentioned, there are ways to get around it. Even for that person to set up a separate phone specifically for the congregation. Or as mentioned by the others, to use a different name, or number. No one should be questioned about their spirituality if their conscience doesn‘t want to have their personal info out there. Yes, it is limiting, especially if they want to join theocratic projects on jwhub, but no doubt they realize that. Plus some may reconsider after some time, when dealt with lovingly. 

Did I question his spirituality?  No, I just said there’s probably more to the story of just this. 
Please don’t read into my comment 

[Amygdala]

29 minutes ago, BLEmom said:

Did I question his spirituality?  No, I just said there’s probably more to the story of just this. 
Please don’t read into my comment 

 

Ok. No worries. 

[daydream]

18 hours ago, Sooner Guy 89 said:

Borg from Startrek names: 7 of 9

Seven of Nine (born Annika Hansen) is a fictional character introduced in the American science fiction television series Star Trek: Voyager. Portrayed by Jeri Ryan, she is a former Borg drone who joins the crew of the Federation starship Voyager. Her full Borg designation was Seven of Nine, Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix Zero One. While her birth name became known to her crewmates, after joining the Voyager crew she chose to continue to be called Seven of Nine, though she allowed "Seven" to be used informally.

 

Spoiler

 

[foghorn]

20 hours ago, AndyCase said:

One elder has now asked us to remove his details and those of his children from NWS if we are using the Shared feature

I appreciate the many wise and kindly thoughts expressed here regarding this brother's request. By creating a pseudonym for the family (ie, Joe and Mary Publisher) with no address, no phone), they haven't really lost all that much. You can still assign them privileges (ie, ministry school, talks, duties, etc) and include them in all normal congregation schedules. They could submit field service reports. You won't have their emergency contacts inside the app, but you WILL have them securely somewhere else. They would get their assignments when you hand them a hard-copy printout. Seems like it is not a whole lot different from a family that prefers not to purchase cell phones or electronic tablets - they just need a more old-fashioned method of communication.

[AndyCase]

13 minutes ago, foghorn said:

I appreciate the many wise and kindly thoughts expressed here regarding this brother's request. By creating a pseudonym for the family (ie, Joe and Mary Publisher) with no address, no phone), they haven't really lost all that much. You can still assign them privileges (ie, ministry school, talks, duties, etc) and include them in all normal congregation schedules. They could submit field service reports. You won't have their emergency contacts inside the app, but you WILL have them securely somewhere else. They would get their assignments when you hand them a hard-copy printout. Seems like it is not a whole lot different from a family that prefers not to purchase cell phones or electronic tablets - they just need a more old-fashioned method of communication.

I agree and am grateful for all the comments.

I suppose the only "problem" with pseudonyms, initials, first names only etc is that those would appear on schedules, cart reservations, talk slips etc

Other congregation members may then start to question, or even assume certain things. 

However, I do agree that these are valid alternatives and when I speak with the brother I really hope they are willing to consider some of the suggestions.

[Tortuga]

20 hours ago, AndyCase said:

One elder has now asked us to remove his details and those of his children from NWS if we are using the Shared feature,

Is he requesting that all of their information be removed or just their personal information?

Is he agreeable to using the same information that is readily available in the local phone directory and is already public information? 

[AndyCase]

16 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

Is he requesting that all of their information be removed or just their personal information?

Is he agreeable to using the same information that is readily available in the local phone directory and is already public information? 

He has requested that his data not be input at all.

He does not believe that we comply with Caesars law by using it due to GDPR concerns (even though I've answered those concerns) not does he believe we are going along with the direction we received from the branch.

We originally contacted the branch about Hourglass and was told that they do not recommend, approve or suggest any specific software, however if we wish to use one then we should get a signed GDPR agreement from the software provider.

 

UK GDPR only required that you get that if the software company has access to your data. Which NWS doesn't.

I also believe they suggested a signed agreement due to Hourglass being server based and storing data on a server, which is wrong, and doesn't comply with sfl.

However NWS complies with all of the above. But he doesn't accept the research and decision we've come to.

 

 

[Tortuga]

17 minutes ago, AndyCase said:

He has requested that his data not be input at all.

He does not believe that we comply with Caesars law by using it due to GDPR concerns (even though I've answered those concerns) not does he believe we are going along with the direction we received from the branch.

We originally contacted the branch about Hourglass and was told that they do not recommend, approve or suggest any specific software, however if we wish to use one then we should get a signed GDPR agreement from the software provider.

 

UK GDPR only required that you get that if the software company has access to your data. Which NWS doesn't.

I also believe they suggested a signed agreement due to Hourglass being server based and storing data on a server, which is wrong, and doesn't comply with sfl.

However NWS complies with all of the above. But he doesn't accept the research and decision we've come to.

Well, then make him the assistant to all of the other brothers and have him do everything by hand for anyone else in the congregation that might feel the same way...

[jayrtom]

I find it starnge... being an elder he knows that when some decision is not unanimous, he should nonetheless bless the decision and be happy complying 

Not all desisions are spiritual based and are pratical aspects that not everybody agrees too. but the congregation never sees that some decision was tough to be apllied. whatever the trick that is used will be noticed by the congregation and they will wander what's going on...

being him an elder, and i suppose he is not responsible for any of the schedulers, makes it almost impossible to use the app if he will be left out while having to have assingments at the same time. On the other hand the BOE voted and he should go on with the decision

The only reason for his opinion to be more important that the others would be if what was decided was wrong, which it isn't! does is idea of no compliance is more valid that the thousands of all others that reached the conclusion that NWS complies with all directions?

 

Besides if he is that strict, he shouldn't have any social platform, not even allowing anyone to save his phone number on a list. he should also require jw,org to eliminatenhis name, basicaly renouncing his priviledge. also he couldn't keep the brothers phone numbers, he shouldn't be on schedule pinned on the information board... he shouldn't wear a convention card with his name and congregation.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jwhess]

Speaking of pseudonyms, (this is not related to the prblem at had) but we have a Pioneer couple who are older and only have one cellphone.  When they sign up for cart witnessing, the wife can't sign up since she has no phone.  So we have gotten used to her husband signing up twice and we know it is his wife as the second entry (and not a mistake).

[carlos]

2 minutes ago, jayrtom said:

I find it starnge... being an elder he knows that when some decision is not unanimous, he should nonetheless bless the decision and be happy complying 

 

Sounds like that brother has a strong opinion on the matter and is upset that things are not being done the way he thinks is right. So he's sulking in his tent, being unreasonable and causing some trouble. We all behave like that at times due to imperfection.

 

If the brothers are understanding and don't try to force him, as time goes by he will most likely realize how practical the app is for everybody and how much time and effort it saves, and will eventually come to terms with it.

 

Our secretary, who admittedly is not very skilled with computers, used to spend between eight and ten hours every month copying service reports to every publisher card on paper and then on PDF, and then adding all the numbers for the S-1. Now it doesn't take him more than five minutes to do all that.

[Sooner Guy 89]

Seeing some of the comments does make me wonder. We all struggle with decisions we personally disagree with. However, if it is an agreed decision then we yield and support the majority. It may be an appropriate topic on the agenda for the next CO visit.

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[Sooner Guy 89]

We did have a brother request we go back to everything on paper. As the secretary I said if that happened I would throw his hat in the ring to be the new one at that point.

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[Tortuga]

39 minutes ago, jwhess said:

Speaking of pseudonyms, (this is not related to the prblem at had) but we have a Pioneer couple who are older and only have one cellphone.  When they sign up for cart witnessing, the wife can't sign up since she has no phone.  So we have gotten used to her husband signing up twice and we know it is his wife as the second entry (and not a mistake).

If they are using NWP, does the Delegate feature solve that problem?