Immigration enforcement and JW's

[BLEmom]

1 hour ago, Doug said:

 

Our current understanding of "the mark" is that of supporting the political system. Those who refuse to receive the mark will face difficulties and danger.

 

However, of what benefit is it to sovereign nations if they have "allegiance" of the people without having control as well?

 

I'm not saying a digital ID is "the mark".  But such a concept as requiring a digital ID would effectively control what we can or cannot do; buy or sell, drive a car, receive health care. The list is endless.  A digital ID could be turned off for various services if we haven't filed a tax return or are behind on child support payments.

 

 Rev 13:16 reads "It puts under compulsion all people-the small and the great, the rich and the poor, the free and the slaves-that these should be marked on their right hand or on their forehead".

 

It seems to me that a digital ID is exactly what governments will decide they need to get a handle on their numerous problems costing them a fortune.  If voting in an election were to ever be compulsory, that digital ID might suspend services if it hasn't been swiped at a voting site.

 

It will be interesting to see what Britain decides  .    .

 

Following the majority of the rules of the land does not qualify as the mark of the beast. If those rules include having a digital ID card, how is that any different than any other required ID?  We have driver’s licenses and passports because they make us. That doesn’t give us the mark. 
 

This is under Bible questions answered:

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/502014147

 

The Bible says that people receive “the mark of the wild beast” because they follow it “with admiration,” to the point of worshipping it. (Revelation 13:3, 4; 16:2) They do this by giving worshipful honor to their country, its symbols, or its military might. As The Encyclopedia of Religionstates: “Nationalism has become a dominant form of religion in the modern world.”

 

So it’s not about ID, but whether the political system rules our lives and we stand in opposition to God. Digital id doesn’t automatically include that. 

Yes, we would oppose any move to force us to vote. I just don’t see that as part of the digital ID discussion. 
 

I will say that due to all the uproar happening around immigration, I think it’s going to make it difficult on our brothers everywhere. Including need greaters etc. 

They are moving to reviewing naturalized citizens next. Both my husband and I are naturalized from different countries. Life could get very interesting for us if this trend continues. 🥴

Edited September 3 by BLEmom

[Shawnster]

34 minutes ago, BLEmom said:

They do this by giving worshipful honor to their country, its symbols, or its military might.

 

When I was in grade school every morning started with the National Anthem and the Pledge of Allegiance. I don't think that's the case any more in the US, but that could quickly come back under this administration. 

 

President Trump passed an executive order making it illegal to burn the US flag in protest despite flag burning actually being protected under the US Constitution as free speech. While the legality of this executive order is questioned, many people, especially ones with military service records, agree with the President. 

 

Every sporting event opens with the National Anthem. 

 

The Mission BBQ restaurant plays the National Anthem at Noon daily. On their work application there is a question asking the applicant their feelings about the Anthem. 

 

All these are examples of accepting the mark of the Beast by willfully participating in this act of worship. People should be allowed to go to work, go to school, go to a sporting event, or eat at a restaurant without pledging their oath of fealty to this country.  Depending on the crowd, a Witness refusing to participate may face verbal or physical assault.

 

I can easily imagine this situation getting worse as the end draws near, especially after false religion is destroyed. 

[Dages]

The mark isn't about a physical/electronic device.
It has to be related to sin, in thoughts and actions.

Getting an ID, whatever the form, is merely obeying the government and nothing in the Bible prevents this.

If, to get this "ID", you have to reject God, then that could be something, but that's unlikely.

[LeolaRootStew]

Other religions already wear the mark of the beast by saluting flags, singing anthems, and promoting politics etc. That's why they have popularized the idea of the mark of the beast being something other than those signs of worship they already perform. In their minds, it has to be something grand that they aren't already doing. Hence the fear of microchips and universal bitcoin and ID cards being the mark.

 

They've missed the forest for the trees.

[Shawnster]

22 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

Other religions already wear the mark of the beast by saluting flags, singing anthems, and promoting politics etc.

Having the flag next to the pulpit. 

Involving themselves in politics. 

Prayer at political functions. 

Blessing soldiers on the battlefield. 

 

[Eejay]

12 hours ago, BLEmom said:

This is under Bible questions answered:

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/502014147

Good reference. In fact, being taken in by the cry of "Peace and Security", whatever form it takes and is demonstrated, will be a feature of those who sadly have this mark. (1Thess.5:3.)

[Cool.As.Ice]

I don’t think all this mumbo-jumbo is helped by the fact that almost everything on the news, is almost always laced with politics, with biased reporters trying to sell their agenda to the audience instead of being truly neutral.

 

Hard to get away from such things unless you live in a cave. Both Paul and Jesus said that we can’t be taken out of the world, but resisting temptation and maintaining neutrality will be extremely difficult as time goes on.

 

Which reminds me, this scripture:

(Revelation 13:17) 17 and that nobody can buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name.
https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&pub=nwtsty&srctype=wol&bible=66013017&srcid=share

I have often discussed this with others in field service. Bear in mind that I’m just offering my own speculation here, not quoting an official statement from the Slave, but some of us feel that during the GT, the governments might try to cut us off from buying and obtaining basic supplies unless we pledge allegiance to the country. Of course, this is just one possibility.

[Jwanon]

36 minutes ago, Cool.As.Ice said:

the governments might try to cut us off from buying and obtaining basic supplies unless we pledge allegiance to the country

 

Jehovah's servants have always been prepared to die for their faith, just like their Lord Jesus Christ. Government pressure will change nothing, their efforts will be fruitless

[Eejay]

6 hours ago, Cool.As.Ice said:

during the GT, the governments might try to cut us off from buying and obtaining basic supplies unless we pledge allegiance to the country. Of course, this is just one possibility.

Already here

https://www.jw.org/en/news/region/eritrea/jehovahs-witnesses-in-prison/