Shawnster

Well, let's reason on it. Lying is a sin. Satan is a liar. Murder is a sin. Satan is a manslayer. Disobedience is a sin. Satan committed a willful act of disobedience. Notice what the Insight book says about Satan *** it-2 “Satan” par. 4 Satan *** So, from a righteous, perfect start, this spirit person deviated into sin and degradation. The process bringing this about is described by James when he writes: “Each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death.” (Jas 1:14, 15) In the course that Satan took, there seems to be, in some respects, a parallel with that of the king of Tyre as described in Ezekiel 28:11-19.—See PERFECTION (The first sinner and the king of Tyre). https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=1200003845&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par =5 Since the Slave is confident enough in stating that Satan "deviated into sin" then we can be confident in following their lead.

We absolutely do know. The Bible is pretty clear. (Romans 6:23) 23 For the wages sin pays is death. https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&pub=nwtsty&srctype=wol&bible=45006023&srcid=share (James 1:15) sin, when it has been carried out, brings forth death. https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&pub=nwtsty&srctype=wol&bible=59001015&srcid=share Sin results in death. Everyone that sins is subject to death. Challenging Jehovah's sovereignty is a sin. For challenging Jehovah, Satan will die. He must die. Likewise, we know that Jehovah would never allow Satan to go and seduce a separate alien species as if Satan had free reign to corrupt the entire universe while he awaits execution. Jehovah's word is clear. If you know your bull is in the habit of hurting people and you don't restrain it, then you are responsible. After the first act of rebellion, Jehovah's justice forces him to restrain Satan so he does not hurt anyone innocent.

No. I was not saying. I was asking if that was what you saying. I was seeking clarification. Well, the topic was about extra terrestrials. And that's the ultimate point as to whether what the Bible describes applies to everyone, including these ETs, or if it only applies to humans. Some in this topic have stated the Bible, since it is only concerned with the human condition, cannot be used to disprove intelligent life on other planets. So, yes. Working with your analogy in relation to the topic, we must treat each group of humanity as distinct and separate groups instead of all coming from the same origin because, since this topic is about alien life, by definition those aliens would be separate and distinct from humans. That's the ultimate point of this discussion, whether such hypothetical aliens could or could not be used as witnesses to make a reply to Satan's challenge. I will respect your conclusion the answer is out of your reach.

Sounds like an easy way for an apostate to slip an ad to someone unexpectedly.

So looks like I understood 2 out of 3 parts. What did I misunderstand? So, at what point could Adam and Eve's continued loyalty be sufficient to provide an answer to Satan's challenge? Unless proven, how can Jehovah make a reply to the one taunting him? (Job 2:4) 4 But Satan answered Jehovah: “Skin for skin. A man will give everything that he has for his life. While stated in Job, this is the crux of the entire account at Genesis chapter 3. Jehovah's creation is inherently flawed. People, even perfect people, only serve Jehovah as long as the good times roll. Take away their paradise and they will curse God. (Proverbs 27:11) 11 Be wise, my son, and make my heart rejoice, So that I can make a reply to him who taunts me. The only way Jehovah could make a reply was if humanity rebelled. Otherwise, how could Jehovah make a reply without proof?

Perhaps I do not understand. Based on your illustration, it sounds like humans (or any physical intelligence) must sin or needed to sin in order to prove Satan's accusation false. I mean, if the only way to prove water is healthier than soda is to allow a group of people to drink soda and develop health problems, then in order to prove water is healthier is that these groups of people must drink soda. No amount of study, research, or meditation will prove soda is unhealthy. So if drinking soda is equal to sin and rebellion, then Adam's sin and rebellion was inevitable. It had to happen. Satan could never be proved a liar. To take this a step further and apply it to multiple different physical intelligences (let's call them Martians), then they all must go through this process. This would be like each separate group of humans must perform their own soda drinking so that each group can prove soda is unhealthy for everyone. The accusation could be raised that soda drinking is only unhealthy for Polynesians or white people. Brown or tan skinned people or people who live in Scandinavia can drink soda and be just fine. One test cannot apply to all types of people and the only way to test the situation is through deliberate action. The only way to prove Jehovah's way of rulership is the best way of rulership is to go through sin, imperfection and death. And this only proves Jehovah's way of ruling is best only for humans. The Martians or Vulcans, or Wookies might actually be better off without Jehovah's rule. Each one of those separate physical intelligence must go through this same process because that's the only way. It's not possible to have one case study with one species apply to all physical creation. That's how I understand your point of view. Is that correct? What am I missing?

Just a clarification. Humans in the physical realm will never have immortality. That is reserved only for those human anointed sons of God. They receive immortality upon their resurrection to heaven.

Can't. Countries that are permanent members of the Security Council won't fill the position of Secretary General. https://betterworldcampaign.org/un-explained/becoming-secretary-general-how-the-worlds-top-diplomat-gets-the-job No Superpower Nationals: No citizen of a P5 country has ever become Secretary-General, as it would be viewed as biased.

Jehovah's one thought.

Guess that depends on whether or not you feel destroying Adam and Eve and starting with a new pair of humans violates that purpose. Or, perhaps Jehovah could have preserved their lives long enough to allow them to have children and he could/would shield such children from the effects of sin the way he did Jesus. *** g90 4/8 pp. 10-11 Extraterrestrials—Finding the Answer *** If God did create such beings, he did so before he created Adam and Eve. Such beings either remained faithful to their Creator, or like Adam and Eve, they sinned and fell into imperfection. But if they became imperfect, they needed a redeemer. As one essayist put it: “One has this dreadful thought that on Friday [the day Jesus Christ was executed], every Friday, somewhere in the universe Jesus is being hanged high for someone’s sins.” But that is not Scriptural. The Bible tells us that Jesus “died with reference to sin once for all time.”—Romans 6:10. What if these beings had remained perfect? Well, when Adam and Eve sinned, they were, in effect, questioning God’s right to rule over a world of intelligent physical beings. If another planet existed at that time, a world full of intelligent physical beings who were living harmoniously and loyally under God’s rule, would they not have been called in as witnesses to testify that God’s rule does indeed work? This conclusion seems inescapable, since he has already used even imperfect humans as witnesses in his behalf on that very issue.—Isaiah 43:10. https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=101990244&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=14

I want to believe, too. However, reasoning on the scriptures indicates otherwise. It's the issue of universal sovereignty that provides the conclusion that, currently, humans are the highest form of physical creation in this or any other galaxy. We are in this miserable state of imperfection in order for us to prove Satan a liar. If there were other intelligent creatures in the physical universe, they would have been created perfect. Their perfect devotion to Jehovah would show that Jehovah's physical creation is not flawed and that intelligent physical creatures with free will would serve Jehovah out of love. Their faithful example would prove Satan a liar. There would be no reason, no need to subject all humanity to 6,000+ years of suffering, pain, misery, and death. The 3 rebels in Eden would have been destroyed on the spot. The fact that we are Witnesses in this trial of universal sovereignty is indicated by the facts that the angels are intently watching how all this plays out, the rebellious spirit creatures in Noah's day chose humanity to live among, Satan tested humanity, and that 144,000 humans are (going to be) granted immortality, will sit on thrones and judge not only humans, but even angels. These anointed will live in heaven forever. All these factors added together indicate that this whole situation involving our salvation is not some minor event playing out on 1 planet while the rest of the physical universe is in harmony with Jehovah. No, what is happening here is the most important event in the physical universe. Now, after all this is settled, Satan is destroyed, and we all become children of God in the complete sense, then who knows? It's a big universe. Jehovah will want to do something on the 8th day.

Beware 1914. We preached that for years prior to 1914. It was even in the newspaper. We all know the significance of this and how WWI was a pretty obvious "sign" that we were right in preaching that message. You're suggestion, this idea, sounds like a similar experience. What an interesting thought. History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme. It would be very stirring, indeed.

Would there even need to be an event? Does Jehovah need to wait on an event before putting his one thought into their hearts?

How quick will that be? Would there be enough time during? How peaceful will the world be during the destruction of false religion? Destruction isn't peaceful. Nuclear weapons might be used. Thousands or millions of people might die. Would anyone sincerely say that would be a time of peace and security?

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