CNN: Why climate change is an 'everybody issue' now

[New World Explorer]

Wishful thinking of some :

Some people simply don't believe that the Earth is undergoing a global warming trend or climate change.

 

Current situation:

Time is short. The world is rushing towards a series of potentially catastrophic feedback loops and tipping points in the climate system, which could see the support system of life itself irrecoverably disrupted. From the release of gigantic amounts of arctic methane gas, to the rapid carbon acidification of our oceans, to apocalyptic flooding, the continued warming of our planet is the greatest challenge our species has faced.

 

 

Hopes:

In the final analysis, the question is whether we human beings are capable of being wise, farsighted, and unified enough to pass this test of survival.

Many civilizations have fallen to the consequences of outstripping their environments. But our civilization is the first truly global one, with the power to end human life. One way or another, we may be the..... last civilization.

Attemps to solve the problem:

130 leaders meeting to discuss a collective response to this crisis heralds a fresh momentum for the road ahead.

 

Reality: But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.

 

Conclusion: Humans despite the best efforts will never solve problems associated with climate change .....   ONLY JEHOVAH CAN DO THIS !

 

 

WHOLE ARTICLE HERE: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/21/opinion/climate-change-march-avaaz/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Buddy]

Thanks for this

[RaymondG]

List me with the skeptics... and I think that's the scriptural position as well as the logical one...

We know Jehovah won't let the place fall totally apart before bringing an end to the system. "For the sake of the Holy Ones," it is written that the days will be cut short, surely this includes devastation of the planet as well as other things?

Moreover, if you look around at many items of pollution you see that the systems that Jehovah has put in place overcomes many of the earth's problems with time. Like the organisms that will consume oil spills.

And then there's the reality of mankind's "domination of man to his injury."

People of all types are making a lot of money out of the 'climate change' situation. People are taking advantage of the world's fearfulness of the situation to get research grants that make them rich, enable them to travel broadly and become famous. Industries are growing around the perceived need to prepare for 'global warming' etc.

For instance, here in this country we had a man appointed as the nation's leading 'expert' to advise the government and warn people about the impending doom.

He was given this job because he had predicted such dire things as a near total lack of rainfall in Queensland, leading to empty water storage dams and dry river beds becoming the norm, and similar things in New South Wales. His job gave him a huge salary (I have forgotten the numbers, but something like...) around $150,000 per annum for a PART TIME job in this position. And staff, of course, and travel, of course, and authority.

The rains, of course, came in NSW and Queensland. Big floods included, overflowing dams that he said would never again fill.

Australia's weather patterns are spasmodic, they can be manipulated easily to show whatever you want to be shown. I'm sure there are similar situations in other parts of the world and there will always be people ready to try to capitalise. Under the current conditions, with the world being bombarded with 'climate change' news, they will find plenty of people to listen to them.

[New World Explorer]

List me with the skeptics... and I think that's the scriptural position as well as the logical one...We know Jehovah won't let the place fall totally apart before bringing an end to the system. "For the sake of the Holy Ones," it is written that the days will be cut short, surely this includes devastation of the planet as well as other things?Moreover, if you look around at many items of pollution you see that the systems that Jehovah has put in place overcomes many of the earth's problems with time. Like the organisms that will consume oil spills.And then there's the reality of mankind's "domination of man to his injury."People of all types are making a lot of money out of the 'climate change' situation. People are taking advantage of the world's fearfulness of the situation to get research grants that make them rich, enable them to travel broadly and become famous. Industries are growing around the perceived need to prepare for 'global warming' etc.For instance, here in this country we had a man appointed as the nation's leading 'expert' to advise the government and warn people about the impending doom.He was given this job because he had predicted such dire things as a near total lack of rainfall in Queensland, leading to empty water storage dams and dry river beds becoming the norm, and similar things in New South Wales. His job gave him a huge salary (I have forgotten the numbers, but something like...) around $150,000 per annum for a PART TIME job in this position. And staff, of course, and travel, of course, and authority.The rains, of course, came in NSW and Queensland. Big floods included, overflowing dams that he said would never again fill.Australia's weather patterns are spasmodic, they can be manipulated easily to show whatever you want to be shown. I'm sure there are similar situations in other parts of the world and there will always be people ready to try to capitalise. Under the current conditions, with the world being bombarded with 'climate change' news, they will find plenty of people to listen to them.

Thanks for your opinion .. Have you read September public Watchtower ?

[RaymondG]

I have... it's good...

And it cites all sorts of people and sources as saying that there's doom ahead. It uses terms like "Some scientists feel..." and "Some believe that..." to introduce the bad news into the stories. It then tells how the beloved Kingdom will bring the answers.

Which we know it will, of course.

But my point is that the article doesn't verify or back up those assertions from other people and publications. It uses them as a vehicle to properly put forward information that shows that Jehovah is taking care of things and loves mankind and the earth.

[Mykyl]

Well Jehovah himself says he will bring to ruin those ruining the earth. My guess is man is ruining the earth to an extent never possible before in such a way that Jehovah made sure it was mentioned and what the result will be.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Mykyl

[Qapla]

An interesting side point is that when pointing to prophesy, we generally mention things like BTG, Birth of the Kingdom, food shortages and such - and, rightfully so.

 

But, have you ever considered that when Revelation 11:18 included the words, ". . .and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth," that this portion of that scripture may actually be a prophesy that man would gain the ability to ruin the earth on a global scale - to an extent that, unless unchecked by Jehovah, would indeed make the planet unable to sustain human life.
 

You know, like when Matt. 24 sets forth the signs that would make up the last days we all look at the "composite sign" made up of the individual events ... like food shortage, pestilence, wars, etc.

 

Just rambling here ..... think I'll stop now .....

[RaymondG]

I should have stopped in Florida in early July to discuss this with you, John...

We are dealing at this time with the situation as it exists right now. Sure, there might be ways that in the near future man could take it all to a 'global scale'. Perhaps with nuclear weapons, that's the obvious method, or large-scale deforestation (think 'Agent Orange' on a worldwide scale). But what we have now and what's threatened by today's situation is what we are dealing with in this conversation.

One of the things that I found outstanding in my recent trip to the USA, which of course included the Detroit International Convention, was the lush growth over such a vast expanse of the North American continent.

I returned home and was sent on a work assignment to a place called Moree. I went early and spent the Friday in field service with some of the local brothers and sisters, we travelled a little way out of town and offered the JW.org tract to people who live in what is almost always a dustbowl.

The place had seen two major flood events in the past eighteen months, but it's now back to its usual dustbowl condition.

Just to get some perspective, and to reflect on my drive across the USA and Canada, I thought about it all and drew mental comparisons.

Moree is somewhere between 200 and 250 miles from the East coast of Australia, it is cropped and there is grazing takes place there and it produces reasonably well in good seasons. As one travels from the coast in that direction the 'lush growth' peters out at the foothills of the first mountain range. Fifty to a hundred miles inland.

On the other hand, I was across Nebraska and then swung down into Kansas before I lost sight of 'lush growth' in the USA. Isn't that about 2500 miles in from the East coast? And it's like that all the way and it rarely isn't like that from what I understand.

Working the land in these areas in the European fashion, the kind of usage that might be said to contribute to the ruination of the earth, has been going on in the USA far longer than it has in Australia. The use of pesticides and other chemical farming aids has undoubtedly been heavier and going on for longer in the USA than in Australia. Clearing the land has been more widespread in the USA. The sheer cost of heavier population is greater in the USA (with about 13 times Australia's population), mining has been longer established and involves greater areas, fossil fuel usage is higher, the list goes on.

Now, don't get me wrong. I know that the tropical forests of the Amazon basin, Indonesia and other places are being decimated and lots of species are endangered and eco-systems are changing. That can't be good.

But when people tell me that the major flood event that took place just near hear in 2011 was caused by climate change I have to sincerely point out that it was an identical event to what happened in the same place in 1893 and again in 1906. Like most things we see today, it's happened before!

[Hartley]

I should have stopped in Florida in early July to discuss this with you, John...

We are dealing at this time with the situation as it exists right now. Sure, there might be ways that in the near future man could take it all to a 'global scale'. Perhaps with nuclear weapons, that's the obvious method, or large-scale deforestation (think 'Agent Orange' on a worldwide scale). But what we have now and what's threatened by today's situation is what we are dealing with in this conversation.

One of the things that I found outstanding in my recent trip to the USA, which of course included the Detroit International Convention, was the lush growth over such a vast expanse of the North American continent.

I returned home and was sent on a work assignment to a place called Moree. I went early and spent the Friday in field service with some of the local brothers and sisters, we travelled a little way out of town and offered the JW.org tract to people who live in what is almost always a dustbowl.

The place had seen two major flood events in the past eighteen months, but it's now back to its usual dustbowl condition.

Just to get some perspective, and to reflect on my drive across the USA and Canada, I thought about it all and drew mental comparisons.

Moree is somewhere between 200 and 250 miles from the East coast of Australia, it is cropped and there is grazing takes place there and it produces reasonably well in good seasons. As one travels from the coast in that direction the 'lush growth' peters out at the foothills of the first mountain range. Fifty to a hundred miles inland.

On the other hand, I was across Nebraska and then swung down into Kansas before I lost sight of 'lush growth' in the USA. Isn't that about 2500 miles in from the East coast? And it's like that all the way and it rarely isn't like that from what I understand.

Working the land in these areas in the European fashion, the kind of usage that might be said to contribute to the ruination of the earth, has been going on in the USA far longer than it has in Australia. The use of pesticides and other chemical farming aids has undoubtedly been heavier and going on for longer in the USA than in Australia. Clearing the land has been more widespread in the USA. The sheer cost of heavier population is greater in the USA (with about 13 times Australia's population), mining has been longer established and involves greater areas, fossil fuel usage is higher, the list goes on.

Now, don't get me wrong. I know that the tropical forests of the Amazon basin, Indonesia and other places are being decimated and lots of species are endangered and eco-systems are changing. That can't be good.

But when people tell me that the major flood event that took place just near hear in 2011 was caused by climate change I have to sincerely point out that it was an identical event to what happened in the same place in 1893 and again in 1906. Like most things we see today, it's happened before!

Many people claim that this climate event and that one are caused by climate change. I agree it is not possible to point a finger like that. nor is it possable to be sure that the increase in climatic events are directly caused by climate change. Millions of tons of CO2 are added to the atmosphere every day. The increasing levels have bben measured. Arctic and antarctic ice sheets have been shown to be getting significantly smaller. Glaciers are receeding at unprecidented rates. Despite this, man shows no sign of changing. In fact many developing nations are increasing their output of CO2 in an effort to catch up. Man seems to be detemined to destroy himself. Whether it be by war, climate change or something else one thing is sure. (Matthew 24:22) . . .In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved. . .

 

Edited September 22, 2014 by Hartley

[Allabord4Jah]

This was on Huffington Post today:

 

Religious Groups Demand Action On Environment

(the story get's better on a link on the news paper, but could not pull it up and cut and paste on here).  It's entitled: These Inspiring Faith Leaders have a Message For the U.N's Climate Summit.)

[trottigy]

http://theweek.com/article/index/268556/400000-americans-marched-for-climate-justice-now-what

 

 

The sheer size of Sunday's march makes it a magnificent achievement. It set the stage for Tuesday's summit. The question moving forward is whether the movement can move beyond huge rallies to put concrete pressure on the political system, which means above all winning some elections, something Occupy notably failed to do.

[RaymondG]

Originally posted by Hartley

.....Arctic and antarctic ice sheets have been shown to be getting significantly smaller. Glaciers are receding at unprecedented rates.....

You remind me here of what must be the great lie of the 'global warming issue...

As I understand it, the genii of the world's academia tell us that ice caps melting and glaciers disappearing, the return of all the frozen water on earth to the oceans, will lift ocean levels sufficiently to wipe out massive areas of occupied low-lying land all over the world.

So let's examine things here. First of all we have to accept that the Arctic ice cap and all the ice floes in the waters around Antarctica are not going to produce and water level changes. When that ice melts it reduces in quantity to simply replace the volume of water it displaces.

Nil water level rise there. So it's only land-bound ice and snow that can do anything.

So let's look at the land-area of the earth that's permanently covered in ice and snow year-round. The Antarctic area, high mountains, some places like Alaska, Greenland, small parts of Canada and Northern Europe and Asia. And the glaciers.

Would that be 5% of the total land area? I haven't actually worked that out, but I'm thinking that's a reasonable guess, but let's say 10% anyway. If you want to check you must use a globe, not a regular flat map because the regions under consideration are enormously exaggerated in size on a flat map (Mercators projection, for example).

So if that ice were to average a thickness of, say, half a metre, Over 18", I think we'd be a bit generous. But leave it at that... 10% of the land area of the earth with half a metre of ice on it (snow coming down to ice reduces its volume by 90%, I understand). That means that when it melts there's enough water to cover all the land areas with 1.5cm (just over half an inch) of water.

But wait, it runs into the oceans, and I recall being told at school (this is all that fundamental) that the oceans cover four-fifths (80%) of the world's surface. So if it all ran into the oceans that 1.5cm has to be divided by eight, and so we have 2mm, less than an eighth of an inch, of a rise in the water level.

Am I significantly out in my figures and estimations? If I am, I guarantee that I'm not as far out as those who say the water levels will rise by 2' (80cm) before the ice caps have completely disappeared, and that overall we're looking at a metre (or more) of rise when it's all gone. But they're university graduates and I'm not, so what would I know? They're paid big money to tell these stories and I'm a mere amateur, so what would I know?

I'll tell you what I know. They are lying. What does Revelation 22:15 say about liars? And those 'liking and carrying on a lie'?

And I'll tell you my basic premise when it comes to lies. That the person who told me that lie cannot be trusted, and that I should never believe them again.

I notice also that a lot of 'likes' have been put against posts which have questioned me and none on my posts. I don't like 'likes' anyway, but does that mean I'm not being realistic, that I'm deluding myself? I hope not.

The apostle Paul told us we should use our 'power of reason' (Romans 12:1) in our service to Jehovah, and it also applies to everyday life, as our service to Jehovah includes doing battle with the children of Ephesians 6:12 who follow their father is misleading the entire inhabited earth. Or being misled by him.

[trottigy]

Ray, I have heard this idea before and did a little digging myself.

 

This site actually explained it well - noting as you said:

 

the North Pole, the ice is not nearly as thick as at the South Pole. The ice floats on the Arctic Ocean. If it melted sea levels would not be affected.

 

But notice the rest:

 

If the rising temperature affects glaciers and icebergs, could the polar ice caps be in danger of melting and causing the oceans to rise? This could happen, but no one knows when it might happen.

 

The main ice covered LANDMASS is Antarctica at the South Pole, with about 90 percent of the world's ice (and 70 percent of its fresh water). Antarctica is covered with ice an average of 2,133 meters (7,000 feet) thick. If all of the Antarctic ice melted, sea levels around the world would rise about 61 meters (200 feet). But the average temperature in Antarctica is -37°C, so the ice there is in no danger of melting. In fact in most parts of the continent it never gets above freezing.

 

At the other end of the world, the North Pole, the ice is not nearly as thick as at the South Pole. The ice floats on the Arctic Ocean. If it melted sea levels would not be affected.

 

There is a significant amount of ice covering Greenland, which would add another 7 meters (20 feet) to the oceans if it melted. Because Greenland is closer to the equator than Antarctica, the temperatures there are higher, so the ice is more likely to melt.

 

But there might be a less dramatic reason than polar ice melting for the higher ocean level -- the higher temperature of the water. Water is most dense at 4 degrees Celsius. Above and below this temperature, the density of water decreases (the same weight of water occupies a bigger space). So as the overall temperature of the water increases it naturally expands a little bit making the oceans rise.

 

So it would no doubt rise as the combination of water temp increase - due to decrease in density = expansion AND the quantity of ice on LAND in ANTArctica with 90% of the world's ice - being able to rise the Oceans by 200 feet alone

 

Conclusion - yes SOME ice melting in ice that "floats" wouldn't raise the Ocean level BUT MOST of the ice is not "floating" AND don't forget to calculate in EXPANSION of water as it warms - another ???? feet

 

EDIT - Source - http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/geophysics/question473.htm

Edited September 22, 2014 by trottigy

[trottigy]

There is a lot of interesting reading on this topic - here is another about ANTARCTICA and GreenLAND ice melting.

 

http://www.climatecentral.org/news/antarctic-riddle-south-pole-melt-17938 

[Stavro]

The rising sea level is not some calculated theory about what might happen in the next few hundred years, it's a well documented and independently confirmed phenomenon that has already been going on for decades.

 

Exactly how the future calculations are made, I cannot say, but I don't think it's fair to imply divine condemnation on those who believe well-documented reports about an ongoing event.

[RaymondG]

Did I do that?

I hardly think so. But I am still not inclined to believe all the proffered statistics. And this article even helps to show that much of the 'climate change' that's going on is man-made.

I certainly don't believe that Jehovah would allow the earth and mankind to suffer these things.

[RaymondG]

Whoops... I just realised I put 'is man-made' there, I meant 'is not man-made' of course.

Where is the 'edit' button?

[Stavro]

Climate change is just as much a political issue as it a scientific issue, so it's probably best not to have any dogmatic viewpoint, for or against.

 

With that being said, there's no acceptable reason to apply Revelation 22:15 against our brothers and sisters on this forum, nor anybody else, it's not our place to pass such judgment against anyone.

 

What we can Scripturally agree on is that mankind is "ruining the earth", (Revelation 11:18) and that the ruin caused by mankind will not be permanent, because Jehovah "formed it to be inhabited". (Isaiah 45:18) Beyond that, it's probably best to leave the debate for the politicians.

[ReadYourBible]

I think the main thing to remember about anything in this point and time is that Satan is the owner of this particular system.  This means he will manipulate it as he must, to generate as much interest in whatever is going to detract from any person seeking answers in the bible.  By the way, US just began bombing Syria...

 

One anointed sister got so upset with me that she deleted me, for holding basically the same position Ray does.  She said that we should be doing something about the environment.  

 

My position was that the environment, along with everything else on this planet is in dire straights and while we wouldn't want to contribute to its demise, we wouldn't want to be ensnared and find ourselves on the environmental bandwagon.  The environment is being utilized in ways it was never intended, and with our imperfect minds, we are incapable of coming up with solutions that will be long lasting.  It is a nerds paradise snare.

 

What I know about science (which isn't a lot really in the scheme of things) is that many of the naysayers will say that there has never been enough data collected to know for certainty whether or not the state of this closed system has remained the same.  

 

While in the same breath, geologists etc., will say that 16,000 years previously our planet went through the exact same cycle.

 

Then there are articles which talk about % of CO2 in the atmosphere, making it seem like it counts for a much, much larger portion than it really does.  Yet, they neglect to calculate in water vapour, which is one of the most predominant greenhouse gases.   Thus when you calculate the vapour in, the rough guestimate of CO2 in the atmosphere is about 5%.  

 

Which really doesn't seem like a lot, buuuut when you think about how.......blah blah blah (positive feedback loops, more water to evaporate, CO2 effect amplified)

 

What do we want our sole focus to be on?  Jehovah's Sovereignty, and His Kingdom.  The way I look at events (I sometimes get anxious - so I pray), is as though I'm watching a tennis match.  Science goes back and forth, the political systems go back and forth, and the religious leaders just keep going backwards.....so far back what they teach doesn't even resemble what's in the bible!  LOL

 

(Speaking of science waffling, did you know it's okay to eat more salt again!  Yay!)

 

Yet Jehovah's word is as constant as he is.  This beautiful planet is ultimately his gift to each of those who will reside on it and we know can all probably recite by heart the words of James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect present is from above, coming down from the Father of the celestial lights, who does not vary or change like the shifting shadows.

 

(Which brings us precisely back to the bottom line of Greg's original post......)

Conclusion: Humans despite the best efforts will never solve problems associated with climate change .....   ONLY JEHOVAH CAN DO THIS !

Edited September 23, 2014 by cerebral ecstasy

[trottigy]

I just saw this video, very cool

[Nobody]

I just saw this video, very cool

 

 

No cold records in how long?

 

http://www.news4jax.com/weather/coldest-november-morning-in-38-years-across-usa/29817030

Edited November 21, 2014 by Brother

[trottigy]

No cold records in how long?

http://www.news4jax.com/weather/coldest-november-morning-in-38-years-across-usa/29817030

No cold record since 1909 in average global temperatures. I am certain one city or another may experience a cold spell and break its record, but average that in with the temps from around the world - nope.

[Greg Dent]

You would not know 2014 was a new heat record around here by any means. The last few years have had record cold temps in the winter here in Canada. I agree with you guys. We should not bother with any "Band Wagon" in this system. We know who the conductor of these bands is. He will be fired and tried for treason soon.